Poll: Forgiveness or revenge?

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  1. #21
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    I voted "Revenge" because you don't have a better option for my opinion: Forgiveness is both given and earned. The Horde have not yet earned it. They need to start doing hardcore reparations and reforms if they want to get forgiveness. Until then, they will be help accountable and kept at a distance until they're willing to show they mean well.

  2. #22
    Didn't vote either. Taking measures to prevent horde aggression is more intelligent than revenge.

    If you just forgive them they'll happily make another road out of your bones or toss you into a burning tree in a few year when they elect a new scapegoat for their aggession.

    Forgiving the is dumb, its proven with or without demonblood they will come to kill you. We've murdered entire settlements for stealing people's pumpkins, much less invading the world, why is the horde given so many second chances when gnolls,murlocs, and demons aren't?

    Most the horde even stood with Sylvanas, champion of zovaal, until she called them meanies.

  3. #23
    Revenge.

    Being the virtuous faction is tiring.

  4. #24
    Revenge makes for the more interesting story.

    It also makes for the most realistic story. There is no way the Alliance does not have one hot-head in a position of power, one individual burned one time to many, one Putricide of their own in their entire line-up who won't eventually cock things up if the horde doesn't beat them to it again.

    What I don't want however is faction swapped evil warchief goes on a genocide. We've had that story enough with the horde. The Alliance needs something else for their evil. One realistic idea would be for war tiered and concerned voices and factions within the Alliance to put demands on the Horde. Things that may sound reasonable at first but soon escalates beyond that. Perhaps the nobles of Stormwind and Gilneas will demand to put a neutral non-voting observer on the new Horde council to make sure they don't fall back on yet another murderous warchief. I doubt it would take much to win popular support from the general Alliance population, especially the Gilneans, Theramorians and Night elves.
    Would the Horde agree to one? It's merely an observer and they do have a track record so it makes sense but it very much undermines their independence to "require a babysitter". What of when Gilnean nobles want parts of Southshore and Silverpine back to make up for the complete destruction of Gilneas city, it's no unreasonable ask as it is within living memory that it was Gilnean clay. Add on some more similar demands for places like Ashenvale and it will take only a few requests, one bad diplomat or scheming noble to tip it over into a full vassalisation attempt on parts of the Horde on the Alliance part forcing the Horde to put down the foot and say stop and for once be on the defensive in a war against an Alliance that seemingly aims to pick them apart and divide them up amongst themselves. I'd not hold it against factions such as the Stormwind nobles to view themselves as the victors of the last war and to try and grab what they can to recover and expand their power in the wake of the fourth war. And with a new regent who might be more open to their suggestions than the lost Anduin who knows what will happen?

    It's ripe for splitting the Alliance on where the line should be drawn, both faction leaders, populations and players. Righteous reparations or a second attempt to subjugate the orcs? (Hey no internment camps this time at least)
    Who has a legit claim and who hasn't? Velen might be against any demands as he can see where that will lead them but how can Genn say no to the nobles of Gilneas and also not want to reclaim Gilneas after vanishing Sylvanas? At least the land within the wall! Surely that won't hurt anyone! And if that ball starts rolling it won't stop. Step back from Ashenvale and seize the deforestation, you don't need it for warmachines any longer anyway and the land needs to heal, allow peaceful resettlement of Arathi, my family has an old family claim on the Agamand Mills in Tirisfal etc.

    Let the Alliance spiral out of control and create a monster of themselves that they can't control.

  5. #25
    My dwarven paladin would seek retribution, but not "blind vengence". He'd like the Forsaken to aknowledge the errors of their past, maybe pay tribute for the lives they've ruined in some way, but would certainly not go on a full-on genocide to calm his thirst for pseudo-justice, especially now that Sylvanas is in the Maw, trying to ease the consequences of her past deeds.

    It's kinda funny to see how many Alliance characters think they truly are the "good guys" while asking for 100% bad guys decisions towards the Horde, tbh (things like Forsaken or Orc genocide, etc..)

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Alliance need to WMD the Horde and the Horde's story can shift back to survival through banding together. Wish the Alliance would be more aggressive with the Horde resisting. It's always the other way around. Now that Anduins not the Alliance leader anymore let's hope for a more vengeful Alliance.
    There won't be revenge ever because this is a two faction game and neither will ever be wiped out.

  7. #27
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syrah-the-Old-One View Post

    It's kinda funny to see how many Alliance characters think they truly are the "good guys" while asking for 100% bad guys decisions towards the Horde, tbh (things like Forsaken or Orc genocide, etc..)
    It would actually be nice to see some of this attitude in-game. If anything, it would harken back to the days of Vanilla, where the intent was to have an Alliance who looked good but was actually evil (to some extent, anyway) whereas the Horde was a good (at least to a certain extent) faction that looked evil.

    Of course the intent never fully came to fruition, but it was much, MUCH closer to an actually morally grey world than any of the narrative horrors concocted by either the (former) local groper first or Failuser later.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer
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    Play both fractions multiple races
    No real simple answer since your poll choices of “forgive/revenge” are too limited, killing an equal amount of horde civilians isn’t justice. But just forgetting about it leaves a sour taste.

  9. #29
    Forgiveness if only because Blizzard would never allow the Alliance to actually deal any serious blow to the Horde.

    If we were talking if Blizzard storytelling wasn't involved, then yeah, if I were a human actually on Azeroth then I'd fully endorse ripping the Horde to shreds. It's proven over and over again that it's a danger to literally everyone on the planet. The Horde has now fostered two existential threats to Azeroth and don't even really pretend that they've changed, they make real life terrorist groups look pure and innocent.

  10. #30
    As I posted earlier, prior narratives...loose ends need to be addressed. Notably;

  11. #31
    If it's a question of which side I'd take in game in a war that's happening whether I want it to or not, then of course I'd go with revenge cause it's simply more interesting. But if deciding to forgive meant that there wouldn't be another war at all, then that's what I'd go with cause frankly I'm sick to death of the faction war. If they aren't going to make the factions different enough to justify not only the divide but a mutual hatred, then there's no point even having two factions let alone a war, especially since they're always forced to work together to deal with some world ending threat anyway.

  12. #32
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    Depends which of my characters I am roleplaying, and how long ago was Teldrassil. Right after the burning, all my characters wanted revenge on Sylvannas and anyone who supported her. After playing through the aftermath, including joining forces with Saurfang's resistance, most of my characters are over it. Except maybe for my first ever wow tune, a Nelf hunter. He's the one with all the fond memories of growing up there.

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

  13. #33
    Forgive; after some thorough Nuremberg-esque trials, of course


  14. #34
    Forgive the Horde what?

    Did we do something wrong? Forget to invite you to some kind of barbecue or something? That's our bad, then. No need to get dramatic over it.

  15. #35
    Honestly, given the way Blizzard handles the Horde compared to the Alliance... The Alliance doesn't need forgiveness or revenge.. They're so powerful and have an air-tight bond with each other that they could outright eliminate the Horde without a second thought and any possible conflicts for good.

    The only reason they don't is because Anduin gets the final say, despite having revenge for what Sylvanas did to Teldrassil, he's still a pure pacifist.. but everyone else (except for Velen, Umbric, and Captain Fareeya) all probably want the Horde gone so that another conflict doesn't arise despite the Horde making attempts to improve themselves.

    There isn't much division within the Alliance aside from Anduin choosing the armistice while Tyrande chose Vengeance. (She's the only Alliance leader to go that route.)

  16. #36
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    Leveling a Blood Elf for the first time, and surprised to find the quests so morally questionable right off the bat. My new magic student is sent off to "bring me the head" of a bad instructor. That was like my 4th quest ever (after killing some random wildlife). Then a few quests later, after culling some mana addicts (that's some social safety net they have in Silvermoon), I find out some Night Elves are working with the Dwarven ambassador to spy on an accident site. The intelligence is clear: the Alliance did not cause the accident, but they fear Blood Elf recklessness so are secretly observing. Our response? I am asked to quietly assassinate the ambassador to cover any embarrassment. This is the kind of heroism young Horde are raised on?

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Joveon Lightbringer View Post
    Leveling a Blood Elf for the first time, and surprised to find the quests so morally questionable right off the bat. My new magic student is sent off to "bring me the head" of a bad instructor. That was like my 4th quest ever (after killing some random wildlife). Then a few quests later, after culling some mana addicts (that's some social safety net they have in Silvermoon), I find out some Night Elves are working with the Dwarven ambassador to spy on an accident site. The intelligence is clear: the Alliance did not cause the accident, but they fear Blood Elf recklessness so are secretly observing. Our response? I am asked to quietly assassinate the ambassador to cover any embarrassment. This is the kind of heroism young Horde are raised on?
    Not heroism but pragmatism. Blood elves have lost too much so it would be unrealistic to trust those people any longer.

  18. #38
    The Unstoppable Force DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Nothing good would come out of revenge, the goal is to have peace.

    Horde vs alliance fights, which has been the theme for the most part, never brought anything good.
    The Horde do not deserve peace. As a Night Elf, I was broken hearted to hear my childhood home was burned. Sylvanas was not even the one who actually lit dear Teldrassil on fire! Sure she was there, but she did not actively burn it. Disgusting. The Horde dogs deserve to survive on scraps, if they can survive at all! What was the provocation?! We had just, collectively, saved the world from the Burning Legion. You cannot tell me this was necessary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Joveon Lightbringer View Post
    Leveling a Blood Elf for the first time, and surprised to find the quests so morally questionable right off the bat. My new magic student is sent off to "bring me the head" of a bad instructor. That was like my 4th quest ever (after killing some random wildlife). Then a few quests later, after culling some mana addicts (that's some social safety net they have in Silvermoon), I find out some Night Elves are working with the Dwarven ambassador to spy on an accident site. The intelligence is clear: the Alliance did not cause the accident, but they fear Blood Elf recklessness so are secretly observing. Our response? I am asked to quietly assassinate the ambassador to cover any embarrassment. This is the kind of heroism young Horde are raised on?
    EXACTLY. Meanwhile, us Night Elves were tasked with keeping nature in balance in our favorite tree Teldrassil before someone burned it.
    "A flower.
    Yes. Upon your return, I will gift you a beautiful flower."

    "Remember. Remember... that we once lived..."

    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  19. #39
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Not heroism but pragmatism. Blood elves have lost too much so it would be unrealistic to trust those people any longer.
    Do you think murdering peaceful ambassadors could be the mindset that led them to so much loss?
    They brought a lot of that stuff on themselves. Even Arthas was aided and abetted by some of them.

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Joveon Lightbringer View Post
    Do you think murdering peaceful ambassadors could be the mindset that led them to so much loss?
    They brought a lot of that stuff on themselves. Even Arthas was aided and abetted by some of them.
    He is was a spy so yes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    The Horde do not deserve peace. As a Night Elf, I was broken hearted to hear my childhood home was burned. Sylvanas was not even the one who actually lit dear Teldrassil on fire! Sure she was there, but she did not actively burn it. Disgusting. The Horde dogs deserve to survive on scraps, if they can survive at all! What was the provocation?! We had just, collectively, saved the world from the Burning Legion. You cannot tell me this was necessary.

    - - - Updated - - -


    EXACTLY. Meanwhile, us Night Elves were tasked with keeping nature in balance in our favorite tree Teldrassil before someone burned it.
    Lol what even

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