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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Mannoroth was killed by an Orc.

    Illidan is a superhuman Night Elf who can fly.

    Arthas beat Illidan.

    Arthas > Illidan >>> Grommash > Mannoroth.

    Also Arthas one shotted an entire raid party of the world's most powerful warriors (why he didn't he stroll into Stormwind/Orgrimmar and do that from the beginning of Wrath, blame the writers).
    He didn't because his human side kept control of a court style kingdom, including how relations between kingdoms work.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by funcik View Post
    You can argue endlessly, but remember that everything is possible in this fantasy universe.
    1) It is possible to kill Mannoroth by mortal orc.
    2) It is possible to injure a titan by mortal orc.
    4) It is possible to kill the demigod Cenarius by mortal orc.
    5) It is possible to kill the Lich King by mortal human.
    Etc
    Everything depends on the situation.
    It's easier to ask the developers to rank ierarchy the power of ALL Warcraft characters than to try to find the answer in a forum about the winner in duels. Even in mortal kombat, Striker can defeat Raiden.
    They did it in the RPG days

  3. #103
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I didn't know memes are now evidence in this forum.
    they aren't, the only thing official is nothing, it literally depends on whoever writer decided, nothing is cannon, nothing literally, u can't build any fact in wow because even the basic strongest 'fact' chronicles are from a 'titan pov', making nothing in entire wow history official or cannon and they can retcon anything anytime they want
    As of right now, Mannaroth shown feat of strength are basically jokes, while Arthas feat of strength are extremely high until his death, Arthas accomplished, Arthas entire wc3 story was how he can best any and all odds against him, if i have to bet with Danasur as head writer i'd bet on Mannaroth since his hatred to Arthas isn't hidden with how they f8cked his soul in SL (FUCK them), any other writer I'd bet on Arthas win
    But until blizz understand how they fucked lore forever with literally nothing to build ur lore upon and no constant with ruining of Chronicles, there is no right answer, discuss as much as u want but in end who win is whatever a writer in blizz decides

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    They did it in the RPG days
    i loved the rpg books, i miss those days when we actually had solid lore canon no retcon 24/7 just for sake of shitting on older lore (the single line of "Archimonde remember our fight from MHJ" in WoD fucked lore with literally no benefit at all)
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    while Arthas feat of strength are extremely high
    Like what?

  5. #105
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    My first thought is to ask where exactly those figure comes from - but then knowing those two fandoms, I'm sure there's material out there that could support any conceivable position either of them made.
    My dude, those two fandoms can speak Ewok and Klingon fluently. Do not test their power levels.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by funcik View Post
    You can argue endlessly, but remember that everything is possible in this fantasy universe.
    1) It is possible to kill Mannoroth by mortal orc.
    2) It is possible to injure a titan by mortal orc.
    4) It is possible to kill the demigod Cenarius by mortal orc.
    5) It is possible to kill the Lich King by mortal human.
    Etc
    Everything depends on the situation.
    Pretty much.

    You can have all the power to create storms, raise the dead, fly a ship, blow up a city, whatever...but you can still get punched in the face. Having one power doesn't automatically confer invulnerability on you.

  7. #107
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    My dude, those two fandoms can speak Ewok and Klingon fluently. Do not test their power levels.
    Now I'm curious if there's the material to understand the Ewok language. I by no means want to learn it, as I fear insanity is the only possible result, but I'm curious to know if it's actually possible.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  8. #108
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Like what?
    entire wc3 story ?
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    entire wc3 story ?
    So?
    10 symbols

  10. #110
    Just so you guys know, Gorehowl was enchanted at Oshu'gun with the heart of 6 Gronns, to give... the strength of 6 Gronns. So getting a hit from Gorehowl means you kinda take the punch of 6 enchanted Gronns by draenei magic.

    "Grommash's great-grandfather used Gorehowl to kill six legendary gronn. Their hearts were sealed into the blade, granting it untold strength."

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunravel View Post
    Just so you guys know, Gorehowl was enchanted at Oshu'gun with the heart of 6 Gronns, to give... the strength of 6 Gronns. So getting a hit from Gorehowl means you kinda take the punch of 6 enchanted Gronns by draenei magic.

    "Grommash's great-grandfather used Gorehowl to kill six legendary gronn. Their hearts were sealed into the blade, granting it untold strength."
    Where did you get the information about Draenei magic and Oshu'gun?

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Where did you get the information about Draenei magic and Oshu'gun?
    Oshu'gun is a Draenei ship, and Golmash, the grand-father of Grom, is linked to Oshu'gun, and he's the one who crafted Gorehowl, it's a simple way to guess what could have enhanced the power of 6 Gronn hearts if not some highly advanced arcanic monument.


    X Fel and stuff like that didn't existed back then, atleast not to the orc knowledge.

    X Shamanism can't do that, it can enchant weapons with the power of elements, or do elements things but thats about it.

    O But using living creatures organs to seal them into a blade, it's pretty much some arcanic enchantment if you ask me.

    Edit : I should add that Oshu'gun, in itself is treated by orcs, especially Warsong Clan as some kind of shamanistic deity/monument, so we can wonder if the shaman magic they were doing with it wasn't in the end just... Arcane magic.
    Last edited by Yunravel; 2022-05-16 at 07:22 PM.

  13. #113
    All of the arguments raised here are completely and utterly irrelevant.

    Not expecting Grommash to strike does not change the fact that he was capable of doing so (fast and skilled enough) and strong enough to flat out one-shot Manny. Not to mention that this argument simply does not exist for Mannoroth's first death. When he was aware of Grom's attack and yet he still failed to defend himself. The fact that he didn't believe that Grommash would attack him does not mean that he wasn't capable of reacting to the attack itself as we see in the cinematic.

    The point about Gorehowl and Grommash being "one of the greatest orc warriors" is even more irrelevant. Being one of the greatest orc warriors has never been some sort of insane power-level that allows you to throw Demon Lords around with no effort. After all, Broxigar was repeatedly wounded, and even subdued, by random night elves and Fel Guards and Orgrim was matched by someone like Lothar.

    And the only thing that Gorehowl's power tells you is that Frostmourne would have no problem cutting through Mannoroth, considering the power gap between the two.

    So here are the facts:
    Arthas is more than strong and fit enough to keep up with Grom, and by extension Mannoroth. He has sufficiently good equipment to repeat, and even exceed, the feat that Grommash has accomplished. Additionally, Arthas has a bunch of ranged and support options in the form of all his spells which only further slant the fight in his favor.

    Conclusion, Arthas wins against Mannoroth with very low difficulty.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    All of the arguments raised here are completely and utterly irrelevant.

    Not expecting Grommash to strike does not change the fact that he was capable of doing so (fast and skilled enough) and strong enough to flat out one-shot Manny. Not to mention that this argument simply does not exist for Mannoroth's first death. When he was aware of Grom's attack and yet he still failed to defend himself. The fact that he didn't believe that Grommash would attack him does not mean that he wasn't capable of reacting to the attack itself as we see in the cinematic.

    The point about Gorehowl and Grommash being "one of the greatest orc warriors" is even more irrelevant. Being one of the greatest orc warriors has never been some sort of insane power-level that allows you to throw Demon Lords around with no effort. After all, Broxigar was repeatedly wounded, and even subdued, by random night elves and Fel Guards and Orgrim was matched by someone like Lothar.

    And the only thing that Gorehowl's power tells you is that Frostmourne would have no problem cutting through Mannoroth, considering the power gap between the two.

    So here are the facts:
    Arthas is more than strong and fit enough to keep up with Grom, and by extension Mannoroth. He has sufficiently good equipment to repeat, and even exceed, the feat that Grommash has accomplished. Additionally, Arthas has a bunch of ranged and support options in the form of all his spells which only further slant the fight in his favor.

    Conclusion, Arthas wins against Mannoroth with very low difficulty.
    On which base do you compare Gorehowls cutting power / striking force ( an axe made to hit hard ) with a frostmourne ( a Rune Blade that are not primary for hitting hard ) ?

    Like apocalypse is the strongest rune blade by feat , but I wouldn’t say it hits harder then gorehowl either

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    All of the arguments raised here are completely and utterly irrelevant.

    Not expecting Grommash to strike does not change the fact that he was capable of doing so (fast and skilled enough) and strong enough to flat out one-shot Manny. Not to mention that this argument simply does not exist for Mannoroth's first death. When he was aware of Grom's attack and yet he still failed to defend himself. The fact that he didn't believe that Grommash would attack him does not mean that he wasn't capable of reacting to the attack itself as we see in the cinematic.

    The point about Gorehowl and Grommash being "one of the greatest orc warriors" is even more irrelevant. Being one of the greatest orc warriors has never been some sort of insane power-level that allows you to throw Demon Lords around with no effort. After all, Broxigar was repeatedly wounded, and even subdued, by random night elves and Fel Guards and Orgrim was matched by someone like Lothar.

    And the only thing that Gorehowl's power tells you is that Frostmourne would have no problem cutting through Mannoroth, considering the power gap between the two.

    So here are the facts:
    Arthas is more than strong and fit enough to keep up with Grom, and by extension Mannoroth. He has sufficiently good equipment to repeat, and even exceed, the feat that Grommash has accomplished. Additionally, Arthas has a bunch of ranged and support options in the form of all his spells which only further slant the fight in his favor.

    Conclusion, Arthas wins against Mannoroth with very low difficulty.
    We have no idea exactly how Broxigar was captured in the first place, but most likely it was done by magicians and as far as I remember at that moment he did not have a weapon.



    Arthas was beaten by Tirion, an old man. Grommash's speed >Tirion's speed.


    Conclusion: Grommash will easily destroy Arthas

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    We have no idea exactly how Broxigar was captured in the first place, but most likely it was done by magicians and as far as I remember at that moment he did not have a weapon.



    Arthas was beaten by Tirion, an old man. Grommash's speed >Tirion's speed.


    Conclusion: Grommash will easily destroy Arthas
    Yes we do lmfao. He got clubbed in the back of the head. Nor would Brox have been made immune to being knocked out if he had weapon. Your worst argument, of course, is that there were magi present. Every other character that we're discussing also wields magic that is far superior to random night elf bozo #1 and random night elf bozo #2 lol. This is especially true for Arthas.

    And Blackhand was humiliated by Lothar, an actual old man. Tirion is the same except he is Light-amped and has an Artifact weapon. Him being relatively old means nothing in the context of a fictional universe where the dude in question has actual super powers. To begin with, we already know that Tirion is faster than both Grom and Manny because he's been capable of going toe to toe with LK Arthas himself who is superior to DK arthas who could keep up with Illidan, and Illidan in turn could already keep up with Mannoroth in his Night Elf form.

    Tirion >>> Grommash. Arthas >>> Grommash. And it's not even close.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    On which base do you compare Gorehowls cutting power / striking force ( an axe made to hit hard ) with a frostmourne ( a Rune Blade that are not primary for hitting hard ) ?

    Like apocalypse is the strongest rune blade by feat , but I wouldn’t say it hits harder then gorehowl either
    Are you seriously head-canoning what Frostmourne was made for? My basis for Frostmourne's superiority is the fact that it was a vastly more powerful weapon both magically (thousands of souls including dragons vs 6 gronn) and physically (crafted by the Primus vs random orc thugs). It shattered almost every weapon that it came in contact with, including another artifact weapon. Meanwhile, Gorehowl's best feat is cutting through a big steel plate. "Made to hit hard" holy shit lmfao. It's a giant-ass greatsword, dude. It was definitely made to hit hard too, except it's of far higher quality.
    Last edited by defibrillator; 2022-05-18 at 09:16 PM.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    So?
    10 symbols
    you obviously have some comprehension issues if you dont understand that arthas was biggest story in warcraft history beside sargeras and legion and its literally theirs ofshoot as LK

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    Yes we do lmfao. He got clubbed in the back of the head. Nor would Brox have been made immune to being knocked out if he had weapon. Your worst argument, of course, is that there were magi present. Every other character that we're discussing also wields magic that is far superior to random night elf bozo #1 and random night elf bozo #2 lol. This is especially true for Arthas.

    And Blackhand was humiliated by Lothar, an actual old man. Tirion is the same except he is Light-amped and has an Artifact weapon. Him being relatively old means nothing in the context of a fictional universe where the dude in question has actual super powers. To begin with, we already know that Tirion is faster than both Grom and Manny because he's been capable of going toe to toe with LK Arthas himself who is superior to DK arthas who could keep up with Illidan, and Illidan in turn could already keep up with Mannoroth in his Night Elf form.

    Tirion >>> Grommash. Arthas >>> Grommash. And it's not even close.



    Are you seriously head-cannoning what Frostmourne was made for? My basis for Frostmourne's superiority is the fact that it was a vastly more powerful weapon both magically (thousands of souls including dragons vs 6 gronn) and physically (crafted by the Primus vs random orc thugs). It shattered almost every weapon that it came in contact with, including another artifact weapon. Meanwhile, Gorehowl's best feat is cutting through a big steel plate. "Made to hit hard" holy shit lmfao. It's a giant-ass greatsword, dude. It was definitely made to hit hard too, except it's of far higher quality.
    Frostmourne couldnt shatter the weapons from some random doomguard even after clashing with it multiple times. Not even damaging it. The best it did was destroy a arcanite reaper. Heck there isnt even a feat of it ever hurting anything higher then a human. While Gorehowl goes to through demons like butter.

    And if you check Legions artefact storys and the dk starting zone you will see that all rune blades first and foremost are there to siphon life energy and allow the use of stronger frost/unholy/blood magic. No where it is written that they are made to hit hard or even use primary for combat.

    Again Apocalypse the rune blade with the highest feats by default of destroying worlds and being able to pressure Aegwynn by its mere existence close by, was also not made for hitting stuff.

    But go on show me any example of frostmournes feats in meele combat that go behond that of a normal sword or shattering some basic weapon once

  19. #119
    Arthas was beaten because his back was turned to Tirion and he basically got a cheap shot in while going super saiyan. It wasn't like Tirion and Arthas dueled and Tirion won. Arthas was busy preparing to raise the raid as undead minions thinking that Tirion was secure in the ice. Considering that Arthas can just decide 'okay you're dead now' and instantly kill the raid I doubt that Grom would be able to best him in a 1 on 1 duel unless Grom took Arthas by surprise I guess.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    Frostmourne couldnt shatter the weapons from some random doomguard even after clashing with it multiple times. Not even damaging it. The best it did was destroy a arcanite reaper. Heck there isnt even a feat of it ever hurting anything higher then a human. While Gorehowl goes to through demons like butter.

    And if you check Legions artefact storys and the dk starting zone you will see that all rune blades first and foremost are there to siphon life energy and allow the use of stronger frost/unholy/blood magic. No where it is written that they are made to hit hard or even use primary for combat.

    Again Apocalypse the rune blade with the highest feats by default of destroying worlds and being able to pressure Aegwynn by its mere existence close by, was also not made for hitting stuff.

    But go on show me any example of frostmournes feats in meele combat that go behond that of a normal sword or shattering some basic weapon once
    It literally shattered Felo'Melorn, dude. Sit down. Nor does Gorehowl cut through butter or anything like that. It failed to shatter Shalamayne, and it failed to shatter an Artifact weapon, the Doomhammer, when it had the chance. Hell, even an Arcanite Reaper is still a magically infused weapon by definition. And that shattered like glass. It's a feat that Gorehowl has never come close to. The two aren't even remotely comparable.

    "And if you check Legions artefact storys and the dk starting zone you will see that all rune blades first and foremost are there to siphon life energy and allow the use of stronger frost/unholy/blood magic."

    Fake news/headcanon. No one ever said "first and foremost", let alone that they aren't good melee weapons. This is especially true for Frostmourne, the single greatest mourneblade made by the hands of a god lmfao
    Last edited by defibrillator; 2022-05-18 at 09:34 PM.

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