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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    It literally shattered Felo'Melorn, dude. Sit down. Nor does Gorehowl cut through butter or anything like that. It failed to shatter Shalamayne, and it failed to shatter an Artifact weapon, the Doomhammer, when it had the chance. Hell, even an Arcanite Reaper is still a magically infused weapon by definition. And that shattered like glass. It's a feat that Gorehowl has never come close to. The two aren't even remotely comparable.

    "And if you check Legions artefact storys and the dk starting zone you will see that all rune blades first and foremost are there to siphon life energy and allow the use of stronger frost/unholy/blood magic."

    Fake news/headcanon. No one ever said "first and foremost", let alone that they aren't good melee weapons. This is especially true for Frostmourne, the single greatest mourneblade made by the hands of a god lmfao
    No one ever said its stronger than a common dagger either. Only times adventages in quests and books are mentioned, is when its comes to upgrade magical powers.

    Also again, it didnt even scratch the twinblade of Azzinoth who was a random doomguards weapon. While Gorehowl, again went through Manneroths armor like butter and through his skin beneath deep enough to kill him instantly.

    And single greatest mourneblade? Which did what ? Kill a few humans , and a dragon? Amaaaaazing. Again Apocalypse beats that by far and even the blades of the fallen prince are stated to out class this god crafted weapon. Read the artefact pages.

    So Arthas swords best feat is killing humans while Gorehowl killed demons.

    Humans > demons?

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    No one ever said its stronger than a common dagger either. Only times adventages in quests and books are mentioned, is when its comes to upgrade magical powers.

    Also again, it didnt even scratch the twinblade of Azzinoth who was a random doomguards weapon. While Gorehowl, again went through Manneroths armor like butter and through his skin beneath deep enough to kill him instantly.

    And single greatest mourneblade? Which did what ? Kill a few humans , and a dragon? Amaaaaazing. Again Apocalypse beats that by far and even the blades of the fallen prince are stated to out class this god crafted weapon. Read the artefact pages.

    So Arthas swords best feat is killing humans while Gorehowl killed demons.

    Humans > demons?
    No one ever said Mannoroth's plate is anything more than a slab of Iron either. Not very impressive of Gorehowl to cut through that. Now that I think about it, no one ever said that Shalamayne wasn't made of cheap bronze as well. How pathetic of Gorehowl to fail to shatter even that much. Meanwhile Felo'Melorn is at least confirmed to be an Artifact weapon, if nothing else lmao. See how that argument doesn't really pan out that well for you?

    You can add the "random blades of a Fel Guard" into this equation as well. At least they're legendary weapons. Meanwhile Gorehowl couldn't cut through anything other than common grade plate of iron.

    Neither does Apocalypse beat anything lol. Frostmourne is explicitly superior to it, read the lore. It didn't destroy any worlds or anything of the sort. More fan-fiction. Same thing with the Blades of the Fallen Prince.

    So Frostmourne's best feat is shattering an Artifact weapon alongside killing dragons and cutting through a demon like nothing. Hell it even explicitly states that it cuts through armor with no resistance in Rise of the Lich King

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    No one ever said Mannoroth's plate is anything more than a slab of Iron either. Not very impressive of Gorehowl to cut through that. Now that I think about it, no one ever said that Shalamayne wasn't made of cheap bronze as well. How pathetic of Gorehowl to fail to shatter even that much. Meanwhile Felo'Melorn is at least confirmed to be an Artifact weapon, if nothing else lmao. See how that argument doesn't really pan out that well for you?

    You can add the "random blades of a Fel Guard" into this equation as well. At least they're legendary weapons. Meanwhile Gorehowl couldn't cut through anything other than common grade plate of iron.

    Neither does Apocalypse beat anything lol. Frostmourne is explicitly superior to it, read the lore. It didn't destroy any worlds or anything of the sort. More fan-fiction. Same thing with the Blades of the Fallen Prince.

    So Frostmourne's best feat is shattering an Artifact weapon alongside killing dragons and cutting through a demon like nothing. Hell it even explicitly states that it cuts through armor with no resistance in Rise of the Lich King
    Its literally stated on the artefact preview page of the frost dk weapons , that they grow to be stronger then frostmounre. You can read it yourself. Or is it not canon cause its on the official website and not ingame?

    Apocalypse destroyed worlds, its mentioned in the artifact knowledge books you unlock in your orderhall.

    And where is it mentioned that frostmourne is superior ? And where did frostmourne ever kill a dragon. Sindragosa was killed by deathwing and Sapphiron was zerged by undead in warcraft 3.

    and frostmourne cuts through human made armor. Amazing, no weapon did such ever before. But it still cant even scratch demon made blades.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    Its literally stated on the artefact preview page of the frost dk weapons , that they grow to be stronger then frostmounre. You can read it yourself. Or is it not canon cause its on the official website and not ingame?

    Apocalypse destroyed worlds, its mentioned in the artifact knowledge books you unlock in your orderhall.

    And where is it mentioned that frostmourne is superior ? And where did frostmourne ever kill a dragon. Sindragosa was killed by deathwing and Sapphiron was zerged by undead in warcraft 3.

    and frostmourne cuts through human made armor. Amazing, no weapon did such ever before. But it still cant even scratch demon made blades.
    It doesn't. It says, that they have the potential, not that they are actually more powerful lol. Same thing with Apocalypse. It says that it "hastened" the destructions of worlds. Not that it caused them. I'm not sure why you bother to argue about WoW lore when your grasp on it so tenuous tbh

    Frostmourne is explicitly referred to as the most powerful mourneblade ever created and being the Primus' greatest work in the Shadowlands. And Sapphiron didn't get zerged by anyone considering that he had his own Blue Drakes to back him up against Arthas's undead minions.

    Yep, cutting through human armor like nothing is just as amazing as cutting through a basic slab of iron like the one that Mannoroth was carrying.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    Yes we do lmfao. He got clubbed in the back of the head. Nor would Brox have been made immune to being knocked out if he had weapon. Your worst argument, of course, is that there were magi present. Every other character that we're discussing also wields magic that is far superior to random night elf bozo #1 and random night elf bozo #2 lol. This is especially true for Arthas.

    And Blackhand was humiliated by Lothar, an actual old man. Tirion is the same except he is Light-amped and has an Artifact weapon. Him being relatively old means nothing in the context of a fictional universe where the dude in question has actual super powers. To begin with, we already know that Tirion is faster than both Grom and Manny because he's been capable of going toe to toe with LK Arthas himself who is superior to DK arthas who could keep up with Illidan, and Illidan in turn could already keep up with Mannoroth in his Night Elf form.

    Tirion >>> Grommash. Arthas >>> Grommash. And it's not even close.



    Are you seriously head-canoning what Frostmourne was made for? My basis for Frostmourne's superiority is the fact that it was a vastly more powerful weapon both magically (thousands of souls including dragons vs 6 gronn) and physically (crafted by the Primus vs random orc thugs). It shattered almost every weapon that it came in contact with, including another artifact weapon. Meanwhile, Gorehowl's best feat is cutting through a big steel plate. "Made to hit hard" holy shit lmfao. It's a giant-ass greatsword, dude. It was definitely made to hit hard too, except it's of far higher quality.
    Wow, Broxigar who had just been sucked into the portal and had no idea what was going on was defeated by a random patrol, unbelievable. After he received the weapon, he fought on equal terms with Varo'then, perhaps the strongest warrior of the night elves of that time.


    Blackhand was killed by Doomhammer, Doomhammer himself was defeated by Lothar. Also I don't know why you give this example if they are both ordinary mortals, unlike Arthas and Mannoroth. And Arthas was empowered by death and had his own artifact weapon. We know this because? Illidan was playing with DK Arthas, once he got serious he just started burning him alive. Illidan simply dodged Mannoroth's attacks and at this point Mannoroth was much more focused on maintaining the portal rather than killing Illidan. And remember, Mannoroth in the first case did not expect his slave to attack him at all, and in the second he was distracted by other orcs and an iron star. If he and Arthas met in an open field, Arthas would not have such an advantage. I mean, Arthas is weaker than Lei Shen and Lei Shen took 30 days to defeat Xuen, do you really think Arthas is stronger than Mannoroth?




    If you want to discuss artifact weapons, how about a loaded Doomhammer barely scratching Mannoroth's wing while Gorehowl pierced through his armor and skin? Or how about the fact that Varo'then's magical sword (Arcane-enhanced, which should be very effective against demons) thrust directly into Mannoroth's stomach, though wounding him (as well as constantly burning him with magical fire), still wasn't enough even to break him spell to keep the portal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Arthas was beaten because his back was turned to Tirion and he basically got a cheap shot in while going super saiyan. It wasn't like Tirion and Arthas dueled and Tirion won. Arthas was busy preparing to raise the raid as undead minions thinking that Tirion was secure in the ice. Considering that Arthas can just decide 'okay you're dead now' and instantly kill the raid I doubt that Grom would be able to best him in a 1 on 1 duel unless Grom took Arthas by surprise I guess.
    it's amazing that in 2022 someone still hasn't read the Chronicles. Arthas did not play with the raid and could not kill them at any moment, the Chronicle explicitly states that it was a long and hard battle and Arthas fought with all his fury and eventually won

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianus View Post
    you obviously have some comprehension issues if you dont understand that arthas was biggest story in warcraft history beside sargeras and legion and its literally theirs ofshoot as LK
    First of all, I laugh every time Arthas fanboys tell me how great he is and how important he is to the story. It gets even funnier when they tell me that I have trouble understanding the story, considering how much Arthas fanboys like to distort the lore. I mean compare him to Thrall, who appeared in Warcraft 3 not much less than Arthas, who has appeared in every addon since the classic (although his role in Legion was minor and he did not have much time in BC and Wotlk), in contrast from Arthas who only had a big role in Wotlk and who also has several books and stories dedicated to him, while Arthas only has one book. I mean, even the cover of Chronicles 3 is Tyrande, not Arthas.



    Secondly, we compare not the role in history, but the exploits. Another person stated that Arthas has feats that put him above Mannoroth, I asked what kind of feats and this person pointed to Warcraft 3, after which I clarified what exactly was shown there, which allows Arthas to be placed above Mannoroth. You would understand this if you bothered to read the dispute, and did not immediately run to defend the story of your idol
    Last edited by darkoms; 2022-05-18 at 10:47 PM.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Wow, Broxigar who had just been sucked into the portal and had no idea what was going on was defeated by a random patrol, unbelievable. After he received the weapon, he fought on equal terms with Varothen, perhaps the strongest warrior of the night elves of that time.


    Blackhand was killed by Doomhammer, Doomhammer himself was defeated by Lothar. Also I don't know why you give this example if they are both ordinary mortals, unlike Arthas and Mannoroth. And Arthas was empowered by death and had his own artifact weapon. We know this because? Illidan was playing with DK Arthas, once he got serious he just started burning him alive. Illidan simply dodged Mannoroth's attacks and at this point Mannoroth was much more focused on maintaining the portal rather than killing Illidan. And remember, Mannoroth in the first case did not expect his slave to attack him at all, and in the second he was distracted by other orcs and an iron star. If he and Arthas met in an open field, Arthas would not have such an advantage. I mean, Arthas is weaker than Lei Shen and Lei Shen took 30 days to defeat Xuen, do you really think Arthas is stronger than Mannoroth?




    If you want to discuss artifact weapons, how about a loaded Doomhammer barely scratching Mannoroth's wing while Bloodhowl pierced through his armor and skin? Or how about the fact that Varo'then's magical sword (Arcane-enhanced, which should be very effective against demons) thrust directly into Mannoroth's stomach, though wounding him (as well as constantly burning him with magical fire), still wasn't enough even to break him spell to keep the portal?
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    "Not knowing where you're going" doesn't suddenly make your cranium a dozen times weaker. He still got knocked out by a literal nobody. And proceeded to get K.O.d repeatedly after that as well.

    Blackhand was killed by Doomhammer. Before he was slain he fought Lothar and was humiliated by him. His life was only saved by two warlocks who intervened on his behalf. The example shows that Blackhand, an orc warrior in the top 10, got rolled by an actual LITERAL normal human. Whereas I explicitly told you that Tirion isn't such and that he is empowered by the light. Genuinely can't begin to comprehend why you made this argument.

    Neither was Illidan "playing" with Arthas. Stop making up or adding words where they aren't actually said. No one wants to read your endless stream of headcanon. They went toe to toe in melee combat and when Illidan got serious, used Metamorphosis, and struck Arthas wih Felfire he tanked the shot and survived. Meanwhile, the very hit from Frostmourne had Illidan crying on the ground and needing Kael and Vashj to haul him out of there on a stretcher.

    Illidan "simply" dodging an attack is enough to prove my point when we are currently discussing the subject of base Illidan being comparable in speed. Neither did he dodge one attack. Illidan singlehandedly keeps Mannoroth at bay while you fight Varo'then for a long ass while. Mannoroth only focuses on the portal at the very very end of the fight when he is being sucked into it.

    And I already completely and utterly debunked your point about Mannoroth being surprised in his first death. A debunk you are yet to provide even the simplest bit of rebuttal. Instead you've chosen to repeat you argument ad nauseam as if that changes anything.

    If Mannoroth and Arthas met on open field Arthas would run circles around him before cutting his head cleanly off. If he felt it was too tiresome he might just drop Fury of Frostmourne from the get-go and end the fight instantly. Not to mention the potential to summon a massive army of undead to distract Mannoroth like the other orcs did the second time he died.

    Both Lei Shen and Xuen would curb stomp Mannoroth so badly that it wouldn't be funny. At least Arthas has a chance against them by using Fury of Frostmourne. Meanwhile Mannoroth is completely helpless against either.

    The sheer deliciousness of knowing that the utter disingenuousness that motivates you would make you spout out the false argument that "an artifact weapon" struck Mannoroth cannot be properly described. You are specifically omitting the fact that Thrall tells the Farseer, in the very first moment that he picks up the Doomhammer, that he is already wielding better than Thrall ever did. No, Mannoroth was never hit by a "powered up" Doomhammer. Quite on the opposite, in fact. He was hit by a DEPOWERED Doomhammer.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2022-05-19 at 01:59 AM. Reason: Fixed Quote Block

  7. #127
    I love that logic :

    1. Arthas didn’t Zerg down Sapphiron cause Sapphiron also had dragons. When the argument was if Arthas ever killed a dragon with frostmourne. Which is no when he used his army, no matter if it was a fair fight or not.

    2. „strongest mourne blade“ was it stated strongest ? I remember it being stated as the finest. But that doesn’t even matter as Apocalypse and The blades of the fallen prince aren’t mourneblades and neither is Gorehowl. So comparing that is like apple and bananas.

    3. Yes Illidan was literally toying with Arthas, he used his twinblades as a single weapon instead of how he usually fights with them and was throwing around taunts. Even more you said Arthas survived the fel fire implying Illidan was out of it. Illidan is a mage over everything. Using fel fire and magic his all he is about , going meele with Arthas was him giving himself a disadvantage when he showed time and time again that he can use far stronger spells over longer periods of time.

    Iam still waiting That you show any feat of frostmourne being a strong weapon that isn’t cutting down food soldiers or killing a random orc.

    As it stands now, Arthas would lose to Manneroth in both magic and physical departments.

  8. #128
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    it's amazing that in 2022 someone still hasn't read the Chronicles. Arthas did not play with the raid and could not kill them at any moment, the Chronicle explicitly states that it was a long and hard battle and Arthas fought with all his fury and eventually won
    Wait, but the fight wasn't portrayed as being some massive struggle. It was not a "long, hard battle", it was portrayed as a one-sided slaughter with the champion's achievements availing nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronicle, Vol. 3, Page 187
    The Lich King unleashed his full fury. Tirion Fordring and his champions fought back in a valiant battle that shook Icecrown to its foundations. The Lich King ripped several heroes' souls from their bodies with Frostmourne, but even that did not stop them. The champions trapped win the cursed blade fought on, stirring the other spirits imprisoned in the sword to action.

    But despite their valor and heroism, the champions could not prevail. The Lich King's strength overwhelmed them all. Tirion Fordring was subdued in a block of ice, and his followers were slaughtered.

    The Lich King had won. He began to raise his foes into undeath.

    Tirion refused to give up. He broke free of his icy prison, and with a desperate blow, he destroyed Frostmourne with the Ashbringer. In an instant, the souls trapped in the blade were released. The spirits of the Lich King's victims swarmed around their tormentor, repaying his cruelty with righteous vengeance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    2. „strongest mourne blade“ was it stated strongest ? I remember it being stated as the finest. But that doesn’t even matter as Apocalypse and The blades of the fallen prince aren’t mourneblades and neither is Gorehowl. So comparing that is like apple and bananas.
    The logical inference is that it is the strongest. If it wasn't then it would make very little sense for Zovaal to have even called it the "finest", or even to acknowledge it at all, or to have paired it with the Helm of Domination. That said, it is canonically surpassed by the Blades of the Fallen Prince.

    As it stands now, Arthas would lose to Manneroth in both magic and physical departments.
    As I've said earlier in the thread, this should be a foregone conclusion. Unfortunately, Blizzard has been soo disrespectful to how they've handled Mannoroth (and the Legion, more generally), that anytime someone wants to talk about Mannoroth, it will always devolve to "lmao, fire lad gets got by one green boy". Mannoroth should be able to win or have a strong argument in favor of him in most "1v1"-style encounters.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  9. #129
    Specially since Arthas is just very slow in his full plate armor. So he can’t just run around and dodge even if Mannoroth would go meele.

    And just physically wise no magic will prevent the law of physics when just the pure mass of mannoroth hits Arthas. There is no way to parry such big weapon and we know frostmourne doesn’t shatter demon weapons on impact

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Wait, but the fight wasn't portrayed as being some massive struggle. It was not a "long, hard battle", it was portrayed as a one-sided slaughter with the champion's achievements availing nothing.

    I don't know,
    The Lich King unleashed his full fury. Tirion Fordring and his champions fought back in a valiant battle that shook Icecrown to its foundations
    . sounds like an uphill battle to me. And nothing in the quote indicates that there was one-sided slaughter

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    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
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    "Not knowing where you're going" doesn't suddenly make your cranium a dozen times weaker. He still got knocked out by a literal nobody. And proceeded to get K.O.d repeatedly after that as well.

    Blackhand was killed by Doomhammer. Before he was slain he fought Lothar and was humiliated by him. His life was only saved by two warlocks who intervened on his behalf. The example shows that Blackhand, an orc warrior in the top 10, got rolled by an actual LITERAL normal human. Whereas I explicitly told you that Tirion isn't such and that he is empowered by the light. Genuinely can't begin to comprehend why you made this argument.

    Neither was Illidan "playing" with Arthas. Stop making up or adding words where they aren't actually said. No one wants to read your endless stream of headcanon. They went toe to toe in melee combat and when Illidan got serious, used Metamorphosis, and struck Arthas wih Felfire he tanked the shot and survived. Meanwhile, the very hit from Frostmourne had Illidan crying on the ground and needing Kael and Vashj to haul him out of there on a stretcher.

    Illidan "simply" dodging an attack is enough to prove my point when we are currently discussing the subject of base Illidan being comparable in speed. Neither did he dodge one attack. Illidan singlehandedly keeps Mannoroth at bay while you fight Varo'then for a long ass while. Mannoroth only focuses on the portal at the very very end of the fight when he is being sucked into it.

    And I already completely and utterly debunked your point about Mannoroth being surprised in his first death. A debunk you are yet to provide even the simplest bit of rebuttal. Instead you've chosen to repeat you argument ad nauseam as if that changes anything.

    If Mannoroth and Arthas met on open field Arthas would run circles around him before cutting his head cleanly off. If he felt it was too tiresome he might just drop Fury of Frostmourne from the get-go and end the fight instantly. Not to mention the potential to summon a massive army of undead to distract Mannoroth like the other orcs did the second time he died.

    Both Lei Shen and Xuen would curb stomp Mannoroth so badly that it wouldn't be funny. At least Arthas has a chance against them by using Fury of Frostmourne. Meanwhile Mannoroth is completely helpless against either.

    The sheer deliciousness of knowing that the utter disingenuousness that motivates you would make you spout out the false argument that "an artifact weapon" struck Mannoroth cannot be properly described. You are specifically omitting the fact that Thrall tells the Farseer, in the very first moment that he picks up the Doomhammer, that he is already wielding better than Thrall ever did. No, Mannoroth was never hit by a "powered up" Doomhammer. Quite on the opposite, in fact. He was hit by a DEPOWERED Doomhammer.
    That is, in your opinion, a warrior who has just been sucked into the portal and who has no idea what is happening is in perfect condition for combat? As I said, once he got the ax he would have no problem killing demons or elves and fought Varothen on equal terms.



    In that case, Lothar is one of the greatest human warriors, isn't he? The great human warrior defeated the great orc warrior, both mere mortals. I have no idea why you gave this example, because in our case, a mere mortal defeated a demigod (just like in the case of Grommash and Mannoroth). And Tyrion wasn't empowered by the Light, that's another Arthas fanboy crap. They used to say that the Light personally intervened, now this? Tyrion had a super sword, Arthas had a super sword, but only Arthas also had a super helmet and hundreds of thousands of dead under control and the battle was in the very center of his lands.




    Illidan played with Arthas and after Arthas was able to hurt him, he got really serious and just used magic. Arthas didn't tank the fire, he fell to the ground exhausted and he couldn't do ANYTHING against the fel fire. As Illidan began to approach to finish off Arthas, Frostmourne began to whisper to Arthas and Arthas had the strength to land a surprise blow on Illidan. It also amuses me that you say that Illidan cried after being hit and had to be taken away on a stretcher, I can just feel your hatred for those who hurt your idol. But if you want to communicate that way, we can say that Arthas wept as Illidag burned him with felfire.




    No, Mannoroth has been busy maintaining the portal all along.
    Demonic Sight - The Gift of Sargeras gives Illidan sight beyond sight, allowing him to dodge 90% of Mannoroth's attacks.

    I have no doubt that Illidan is faster than Mannoroth, Illidan is a half-naked night elf, and Mannoroth is a huge lizard and he was more busy with the portal. I just don't understand why you suddenly think Arthas is as fast as Illidan. I mean, even the fight with Kael made Arthas tired and Kael is not a famous swordsman.




    You have not debunked anything, if it seems to you personally that your ridiculous arguments work, this does not mean that this is so in reality. In Chronicles it is written that Mannoroth did not expect his slave to hit him, in Draenor we saw that he was distracted by other orcs and an iron star.



    Which makes you think that he would even be able to cut off his head or that Mannoroth would just let Arthas run around in circles and not kill him in the meantime. Oh, of course, we always come to this. In a 1v1 battle, Arthas summons a huge army of undead. I have several questions about this
    1) What prevents Mannoroth from killing Arthas while he is summoning the undead? Calling an army is not something that is done instantly.
    2) What prevents Mannoroth from summoning an army of demons in response and we know that demons are stronger than the undead?
    3) What prevents Mannoroth from causing a huge rain of filth and killing all this undead?

    I also have no idea why you think Fury of Frostmourne is the victory button for Arthas. Arthas' fanboys exemplify this spell as if it would kill any enemy, but if it did, Arthas would not be weaker than Lei Shen.



    And you have proof, of course? We don't know which one is stronger, but we do know that Mannoroth is at least equal to Cenarius, so he's in the league of the strongest wild gods.



    You know so little lore that it's ridiculous. You can see in the cutscene that Thrall charges the Doomhammer with elemental power and throws it at Mannoroth. Just because the Doomhammer in Thrall's hands was weaker doesn't mean he was DEPOWERED. But if you want to play this game, then go ahead. Because literally the same thing we can say about Ashbringer. In the description of one of his abilities, it is said that the power within the sword responds to the call of the player more than to the call of any previous owner. By your logic, Arthas was also defeated by the DEPOWERED Ashbringer.



    It also amuses me a lot that you talk about my headcanon or that I make things up when you just write your fantasies (that Illidan cried after being hit, that Mannoroth has no chance against Fury of Frostmourne , that Arthas has a chance against Lei Shen or Xuen , though we don't know anything about it) because you're pissed off by the fact that Arthas isn't the most powerful being in the universe. I mean, before that famous tweet, Arthas' fanboys were just as sure that Arthas was stronger than Lei Shen because he has the FURY OF FROSTMORE or because he defeated the heroes or whatever. It's time for you to come to terms, your idol is simply not as strong as you think.




    No, really, I never understood that in the Arthas fanboys. You are ready to salivate, scream about what a great villain Arthas is and what a great story he has and in general he is the central character of Warcraft, but you get hysterical when I tell you (not to you personally, Arthas fans in general) that he is not the strongest being in the multiverse. Only fans of Sylvanas twist the facts or make up some nonsense as often as Arthas fans to make their idol look better. I mean, is that really a factor for you? Power? If Arthas is not the strongest, then he is a bad character? For example, I like Azshara. And I know her power level. I will never say that she is stronger than Archimonde and KJ or Aspect or Ragnaros, but I don't like her less because of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    Specially since Arthas is just very slow in his full plate armor. So he can’t just run around and dodge even if Mannoroth would go meele.

    And just physically wise no magic will prevent the law of physics when just the pure mass of mannoroth hits Arthas. There is no way to parry such big weapon and we know frostmourne doesn’t shatter demon weapons on impact
    Or Mannoroth could just burn him like Illidan. I mean, Arthas has already been shown to have problems with fel magic and I think Mannoroth is on par with Illidan.
    Last edited by darkoms; 2022-05-19 at 08:35 AM.

  11. #131
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I don't know, . sounds like an uphill battle to me. And nothing in the quote indicates that there was one-sided slaughter
    Sure, when you remove all other lines but that one, like the one that says the Lich King overwhelmed them with his strength and slaughtered Tirion Fordring's followers, it does come off a lot differently.

    But despite their valor and heroism, the champions could not prevail. The Lich King's strength overwhelmed them all. Tirion Fordring was subdued in a block of ice, and his followers were slaughtered.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Sure, when you remove all other lines but that one, like the one that says the Lich King overwhelmed them with his strength and slaughtered Tirion Fordring's followers, it does come off a lot differently.
    Did I argue somewhere that the Lich King won? I said it wasn't an easy fight like Arthas fanboys like to say. He did not play with us and did not hold back

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Did I argue somewhere that the Lich King won? I said it wasn't an easy fight like Arthas fanboys like to say. He did not play with us and did not hold back
    You explicitly called it a long, hard battle from that Arthas eventually won, implying that the conclusion could have gone either way:

    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    it's amazing that in 2022 someone still hasn't read the Chronicles. Arthas did not play with the raid and could not kill them at any moment, the Chronicle explicitly states that it was a long and hard battle and Arthas fought with all his fury and eventually won
    Then you called it an uphill battle from Arthas perspective:

    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I don't know, . sounds like an uphill battle to me. And nothing in the quote indicates that there was one-sided slaughter
    When Chronicle describes Arthas' victory as anything but a hard, uphill battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronicle
    But despite their valor and heroism, the champions could not prevail. The Lich King's strength overwhelmed them all. Tirion Fordring was subdued in a block of ice, and his followers were slaughtered.
    So I'm in a position where I can believe Chronicle and be an "Arthas fanboy" - an "Arthas fanboy" who has repeatedly said Arthas would get slapped around by Mannoroth - or I can agree with you and disregard Chronicle. In a bit of a pickle here.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    You explicitly called it a long, hard battle from that Arthas eventually won, implying that the conclusion could have gone either way:



    Then you called it an uphill battle from Arthas perspective:



    When Chronicle describes Arthas' victory as anything but a hard, uphill battle:



    So I'm in a position where I can believe Chronicle and be an "Arthas fanboy" - an "Arthas fanboy" who has repeatedly said Arthas would get slapped around by Mannoroth - or I can agree with you and disregard Chronicle. In a bit of a pickle here.
    It also doesn't state that it was a one-sided slaugther, as you said. Both sides gave their all. If Arthas fought with his fury, then he wasn't holding back, and judging by the fact that the battle didn't end in 5 seconds, it wasn't an easy battle. But I never meant that Arthas could lose.



    I also don't call you an Arthas fan personally, I'm saying that they often claim that Arthas was just playing with the raid because their lore is fucking based on the 2009 addon, not the Chronicle which says he fought with all his fury
    Last edited by darkoms; 2022-05-19 at 12:32 PM.

  15. #135
    Also defeating the raid party isnt that amazing. Illidan won basically vs the champions and was at his death bed with no magic power left.

    Arthas really got lucky that he was just a human so that the champions didnt bring any serious support with them like they did vs the likes of ragnaros , deathwing and so on.

    And you all skip over the part were its mentioned that arthas slaughtered the raid but even the ones who got pulled in the sword keept fighting. So it was a battle for him till the end even when he was killing champion by champion

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Wow, Broxigar who had just been sucked into the portal and had no idea what was going on was defeated by a random patrol, unbelievable. After he received the weapon, he fought on equal terms with Varo'then, perhaps the strongest warrior of the night elves of that time.


    Blackhand was killed by Doomhammer, Doomhammer himself was defeated by Lothar. Also I don't know why you give this example if they are both ordinary mortals, unlike Arthas and Mannoroth. And Arthas was empowered by death and had his own artifact weapon. We know this because? Illidan was playing with DK Arthas, once he got serious he just started burning him alive. Illidan simply dodged Mannoroth's attacks and at this point Mannoroth was much more focused on maintaining the portal rather than killing Illidan. And remember, Mannoroth in the first case did not expect his slave to attack him at all, and in the second he was distracted by other orcs and an iron star. If he and Arthas met in an open field, Arthas would not have such an advantage. I mean, Arthas is weaker than Lei Shen and Lei Shen took 30 days to defeat Xuen, do you really think Arthas is stronger than Mannoroth?




    If you want to discuss artifact weapons, how about a loaded Doomhammer barely scratching Mannoroth's wing while Gorehowl pierced through his armor and skin? Or how about the fact that Varo'then's magical sword (Arcane-enhanced, which should be very effective against demons) thrust directly into Mannoroth's stomach, though wounding him (as well as constantly burning him with magical fire), still wasn't enough even to break him spell to keep the portal?

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    it's amazing that in 2022 someone still hasn't read the Chronicles. Arthas did not play with the raid and could not kill them at any moment, the Chronicle explicitly states that it was a long and hard battle and Arthas fought with all his fury and eventually won

    - - - Updated - - -



    First of all, I laugh every time Arthas fanboys tell me how great he is and how important he is to the story. It gets even funnier when they tell me that I have trouble understanding the story, considering how much Arthas fanboys like to distort the lore. I mean compare him to Thrall, who appeared in Warcraft 3 not much less than Arthas, who has appeared in every addon since the classic (although his role in Legion was minor and he did not have much time in BC and Wotlk), in contrast from Arthas who only had a big role in Wotlk and who also has several books and stories dedicated to him, while Arthas only has one book. I mean, even the cover of Chronicles 3 is Tyrande, not Arthas.



    Secondly, we compare not the role in history, but the exploits. Another person stated that Arthas has feats that put him above Mannoroth, I asked what kind of feats and this person pointed to Warcraft 3, after which I clarified what exactly was shown there, which allows Arthas to be placed above Mannoroth. You would understand this if you bothered to read the dispute, and did not immediately run to defend the story of your idol
    If that's the story they were going for they should have prevented it that way in game. You shouldn't need to buy and read all these chronicle books (or the side novels), which are apparantly from the in universe pov of the titans and still potentially fallible undermining their purpose, to understand what's going on in the game.

    If the 'official lore' deviates from what's presented in game that's blizzard's problem not mine.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    If that's the story they were going for they should have prevented it that way in game. You shouldn't need to buy and read all these chronicle books (or the side novels), which are apparantly from the in universe pov of the titans and still potentially fallible undermining their purpose, to understand what's going on in the game.

    If the 'official lore' deviates from what's presented in game that's blizzard's problem not mine.
    You literally sound like the people of 12 years ago who were mad that Cairne's death was in a book and not in a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    Also defeating the raid party isnt that amazing. Illidan won basically vs the champions and was at his death bed with no magic power left.

    Arthas really got lucky that he was just a human so that the champions didnt bring any serious support with them like they did vs the likes of ragnaros , deathwing and so on.

    And you all skip over the part were its mentioned that arthas slaughtered the raid but even the ones who got pulled in the sword keept fighting. So it was a battle for him till the end even when he was killing champion by champion
    I agree, against Deathwing we had the Aspects and Thrall, against Arthas we had Tyrion. Obviously it will be harder for someone to kill us. It's actually a Blizzard problem though, because they keep saying that we're THE GREATEST HEROES OF AZEROTH and people think THEY defeating bosses, not a bunch of red dragons and Alexstrasza or 4 Titan Keepers with HELP of heroes. And because of this, they think that Arthas is stronger than all the other bosses.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Wow, Broxigar who had just been sucked into the portal and had no idea what was going on was defeated by a random patrol, unbelievable. After he received the weapon, he fought on equal terms with Varo'then, perhaps the strongest warrior of the night elves of that time.


    Blackhand was killed by Doomhammer, Doomhammer himself was defeated by Lothar. Also I don't know why you give this example if they are both ordinary mortals, unlike Arthas and Mannoroth. And Arthas was empowered by death and had his own artifact weapon. We know this because? Illidan was playing with DK Arthas, once he got serious he just started burning him alive. Illidan simply dodged Mannoroth's attacks and at this point Mannoroth was much more focused on maintaining the portal rather than killing Illidan. And remember, Mannoroth in the first case did not expect his slave to attack him at all, and in the second he was distracted by other orcs and an iron star. If he and Arthas met in an open field, Arthas would not have such an advantage. I mean, Arthas is weaker than Lei Shen and Lei Shen took 30 days to defeat Xuen, do you really think Arthas is stronger than Mannoroth?




    If you want to discuss artifact weapons, how about a loaded Doomhammer barely scratching Mannoroth's wing while Gorehowl pierced through his armor and skin? Or how about the fact that Varo'then's magical sword (Arcane-enhanced, which should be very effective against demons) thrust directly into Mannoroth's stomach, though wounding him (as well as constantly burning him with magical fire), still wasn't enough even to break him spell to keep the portal?

    - - - Updated - - -



    it's amazing that in 2022 someone still hasn't read the Chronicles. Arthas did not play with the raid and could not kill them at any moment, the Chronicle explicitly states that it was a long and hard battle and Arthas fought with all his fury and eventually won

    - - - Updated - - -



    First of all, I laugh every time Arthas fanboys tell me how great he is and how important he is to the story. It gets even funnier when they tell me that I have trouble understanding the story, considering how much Arthas fanboys like to distort the lore. I mean compare him to Thrall, who appeared in Warcraft 3 not much less than Arthas, who has appeared in every addon since the classic (although his role in Legion was minor and he did not have much time in BC and Wotlk), in contrast from Arthas who only had a big role in Wotlk and who also has several books and stories dedicated to him, while Arthas only has one book. I mean, even the cover of Chronicles 3 is Tyrande, not Arthas.



    Secondly, we compare not the role in history, but the exploits. Another person stated that Arthas has feats that put him above Mannoroth, I asked what kind of feats and this person pointed to Warcraft 3, after which I clarified what exactly was shown there, which allows Arthas to be placed above Mannoroth. You would understand this if you bothered to read the dispute, and did not immediately run to defend the story of your idol
    Arthas fanboys bro hahahah he literally became strongest entity besides Sargeras alone .. what he did?! He was 1/4 of story of Reign of Chaos he literally made illidan the demon hunter.. indirectly helped to defeat the legion..Whole Warcraft:TFT was about him .. When you say addon you just lose all credibility from warcraft 2 it was expansion never addon leave addons to FFIV.. little kiddo leave lore to ppl that actually played when it was first out.. while you havent even been in dad's left nut

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Do you have proof that this will affect Mannoroth?
    Mannoroth never lost a battle to an orc. On the first occasion he didn't expect Grommash to attack him, on the second he was distracted by other orcs and an iron star. I mean, Arthas would have died too if he fought in exactly the same conditions.
    I mean using a substance specifically tailored to killing undead as an example of his lack of power would just be like saying there's many weapons out there that harm demons even more which makes Manny even weaker by that logic. You'd literally need to basically go power to power if you're doing a fair comparison.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    I mean using a substance specifically tailored to killing undead as an example of his lack of power would just be like saying there's many weapons out there that harm demons even more which makes Manny even weaker by that logic. You'd literally need to basically go power to power if you're doing a fair comparison.
    I mean, a sword loaded with arcane and fire was thrust into Mannoroth's stomach and that didn't stop him from maintaining the portal, but people claim that one hit of Frostmourne is enough to kill him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianus View Post
    Arthas fanboys bro hahahah he literally became strongest entity besides Sargeras alone .. what he did?! He was 1/4 of story of Reign of Chaos he literally made illidan the demon hunter.. indirectly helped to defeat the legion..Whole Warcraft:TFT was about him .. When you say addon you just lose all credibility from warcraft 2 it was expansion never addon leave addons to FFIV.. little kiddo leave lore to ppl that actually played when it was first out.. while you havent even been in dad's left nut
    Have you ever heard of Lei Shen?

    Yes, and I already pointed out to you that he has less screen time than Thrall. It would also be helpful if you actually bothered to learn lore and not just play a game. And in case you're wondering, Illidan beat Arthas like a dog when he got serious. You would know this if you read the books instead of replaying Warcraft 3 100 times


    By the way, you don't have to act like a jerk for people to understand your point of view. I mean, I'm toxic and getting banned on this forum all the time, but even I got disgusted while reading your post.

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