Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I mean, a sword loaded with arcane and fire was thrust into Mannoroth's stomach and that didn't stop him from maintaining the portal, but people claim that one hit of Frostmourne is enough to kill him

    - - - Updated - - -



    Have you ever heard of Lei Shen?

    Yes, and I already pointed out to you that he has less screen time than Thrall. It would also be helpful if you actually bothered to learn lore and not just play a game. And in case you're wondering, Illidan beat Arthas like a dog when he got serious. You would know this if you read the books instead of replaying Warcraft 3 100 times


    By the way, you don't have to act like a jerk for people to understand your point of view. I mean, I'm toxic and getting banned on this forum all the time, but even I got disgusted while reading your post.
    WoW lore is trash.. only lore that matters is before wow..cause you know wow lore is matter of "PERSPECTIVE" and thats why its trash.. oh and look troll got offended when he tasted some of his own medicine how cute..

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Ianus View Post
    WoW lore is trash.. only lore that matters is before wow..cause you know wow lore is matter of "PERSPECTIVE" and thats why its trash.. oh and look troll got offended when he tasted some of his own medicine how cute..
    Amazing. Do you really believe what you write?

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Amazing. Do you really believe what you write?
    yes cause thats blizz literal stance on lore

  4. #144
    Herald of the Titans Clone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Kamino
    Posts
    2,678
    The scene where Mannoroth got killed by Grom was written before all the power creep made its way into WoW lore. You can't really compare the two based on feats derived in changes in writing philosophy.

  5. #145
    @darkoms

    It's actually hilarious how little self-awareness you have. The only one who's opinionated here is you. The notion that someone becomes only a fraction of themselves in terms of strength, speed, endurance and reactions simply because they don't know where they are is nothing more than pure nonsense. Not to mention that you ignored the part where he was knocked out repeatedly even after obtaining the Axe of Cenarius because you have 0 arguments against that.

    Like you said, old man. The difference is that one of the old men has magic. So no, Arthas didn't get defeated by just an "old man", unlike Blackhand, an Orc warrior like Grom, who did actually get defeated by a normal dude in his late 50's. That's the point them I'm making.

    And yes, Tirion was obviously amped by the Light, lmfao. What are you even saying here? Have you never done the LK fight or what? Once Tirion breaks out of the ice, the Ashbringer is surrounded by a glow of Holy Light that isn't normally present lol. It's genuinely funny how you don't even know that much.

    Nope, Illidan didn't play with Arthas whatsoever. That's literally not stated at any point anywhere in the story, more headcanon from you. Meanwhile, Rise of the Lich King explicitly tells you that Illidan was getting exhausted from their fight. Not to mention that it also says that Arthas had already been taxed by his previous bout with Kael before reaching Icecrown. More importantly, I have trouble understanding how you don't even know what the definition of the word "tank" is in this context. Why would you ever argue about these things when you're not even literate enough to do so in the first place? Arthas took multiple hits from Illidan's felfire, proceeded not to die and still had the strength to attack Illidan after that. That's the definition of tanking a hit. Get it right.

    No, Mannoroth wasn't busy with the portal at all. There's a good reason why you're yet to provide a source for your claims lol.

    I'm also not sure why you're bothering to post tooltips for Illidan's spells. We're not discussing WHY he is capable of keeping up with Mannoroth, we're discussing IF he is capable of keeping up with Mannoroth. If you agree that Nelf Illidan is faster than Mannoroth than you automatically agree that DK Arthas, let alone LK Arthas, is also faster than Manny, considering that DK Arthas was already evenly matched with Nelf Illidan. End of discussion.

    And yes, you are completely debunked, my guy. There's a good reason why you're yet to say anything about my rebuttal, and instead just choosing to repeat your argument over and over as if it hasn't already been refuted.

    What do you mean "What makes you think Arthas can run circles around Mannoroth"? Why do you think we have been discussing Nelf Illidan vs Mannoroth in terms of speed up until this point? Are you following the conversation at all? I know that Arthas can run circles around Mannoroth because he could already keep up with someone who could dodge upwards of 90% of Mannoroth's attacks before he becoming the Lich King. That's why.

    1)Wrong. Out the two characters in question, this only fully applies to Mannoroth whose 5 Infernals take a while to reach the ground and whose portals only allow him to summon a couple of minions with each wave. Meanwhile, Arthas' spirits and val'kyrs appear instantly, his ghouls and abominations appear almost instantly after a second and a half cast and he can summons dozens of those at a time, unlike Mannoroth.
    2)See above. More minions, faster to summon. Also, your argument falls apart once you factor in the numerous powerful units that the Scourge has at its' disposal.
    3)I only raised the point about Arthas' army because it would serve as an excellent distraction. If Mannoroth has to waste his time to deal with them, than it's already working.

    No, Arthas would still be weaker than Lei Shen. Just because he has an extremely potent form of soul stealing does not change the fact that Lei Shen still has higher raw stats than Arthas, both physically and magically. He still wouldn't be capable of engaging Lei Shen in any other way without losing resoundingly. That's like saying that I'm weaker than a poisonous flower because I can't deal with its' poison even though I could effortlessly crush it underfoot.

    Mannoroth would get curb stomped by Xuen and Lei Shen because he is that much weaker than them. And so would Cenarius. Just because he is a Wild God does not mean that he is on Xuen's level. Neither Mannoroth nor Cenarius have anything on these hill-sized dudes.

    As I said, what Thrall can do with the Doomhammer is not equivalent to what the Farseer can do with the Doomhammer, as Thrall specifically tells you himself. So yes, it was DEPOWERED, as a matter of fact. There rest of your point here is literal whataboutism

    The remaining two paragraphs that you wrote are literally nothing more than crying and seething about "fanboys" without any actual arguments so I won't bother to respond to their contents.

  6. #146
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    All across Nirn.
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    By the way, you don't have to act like a jerk for people to understand your point of view. I mean, I'm toxic and getting banned on this forum all the time, but even I got disgusted while reading your post.
    I genuinely have no idea why you're engaging with him when he said something as ridiculous as:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianus View Post
    Arthas fanboys bro hahahah he literally became strongest entity besides Sargeras alone
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    I genuinely have no idea why you're engaging with him when he said something as ridiculous as:
    When kids that havent been born or in dad plans while warcraft was made or played original games and then try to talk about lore from WoW perspective where simpnuser is main lore guy LOL.. get a f grip

  8. #148
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    All across Nirn.
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    Nope, Illidan didn't play with Arthas whatsoever.
    It's described as Illidan not taking Arthas seriously in Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, whereas Arthas was receiving all the power Ner'zhul could provide during the encounter. Illidan lost because of this arrogance, but it's still an achievement for Arthas. Regardless, Arthas pre-Lich King is nothing compared to Arthas as the Lich King, which is who the discussion is focused on.

    No, Mannoroth wasn't busy with the portal at all. There's a good reason why you're yet to provide a source for your claims lol.
    Mannoroth was busy with the portal is in the Cataclysm dungeon Well of Eternity. In this dungeon, Mannoroth is being shown as the one maintaining the portal, and the win condition for the encounter is breaking his concentration and causing him to be pulled into the portal (banished back to the Twisting Nether). It should also be noted that sometime after the events of Warcraft 3, Azgoth, a Pit Lord, was able to defeat Illidan. Given Mannoroth was the strongest Pit Lord, it's not a huge logical leap to say that Mannoroth is probably stronger than Illidan.

    Mannoroth would get curb stomped by Xuen and Lei Shen because he is that much weaker than them. And so would Cenarius. Just because he is a Wild God does not mean that he is on Xuen's level. Neither Mannoroth nor Cenarius have anything on these hill-sized dudes..
    So you're under the belief that Xuen, a Wild God who was special because he was one of four that Freya saw was dedicated to peace and wisdom, is greater than Cenarius, someone who is also a Wild God, who was the being who taught the mortal races Druidism, who has been explicitly called one of the strongest immortal beings on Azeroth, and whose mother is Elune (a celestial being of similar status to the Eternal Ones) and father is Malorne (one of the most powerful Wild Gods) for reasons unstated. Neat.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  9. #149
    I feel like there is no point discussing this more. All points been made and who ever reads this thread can now decide to form a opinion on logic or join the fan boy rage of arthas fanboys throwing stuff around like : debunked, sageras is weaker then arthas, x other buzzword.

    The one thing though arthas fanboys lack to provide….is proof for any of their claims so iam sure any objective reader will quickly realize which sidd has more points

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    It's described as Illidan not taking Arthas seriously in Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, whereas Arthas was receiving all the power Ner'zhul could provide during the encounter. Illidan lost because of this arrogance, but it's still an achievement for Arthas. Regardless, Arthas pre-Lich King is nothing compared to Arthas as the Lich King, which is who the discussion is focused on.
    Not it isn't dude. Not just "toying"/"playing", other words like "arrogance" and "not taking the fight seriously" are never used in Rise of the Lich King. That's just your interpretation, your headcanon. Even other sources like the Chronicles attribute Arthas' victory to his amp from Ner'Zhul that was given to him at the time. Illidan's Arrogance is never mentioned anywhere.

    Mannoroth was busy with the portal is in the Cataclysm dungeon Well of Eternity. In this dungeon, Mannoroth is being shown as the one maintaining the portal, and the win condition for the encounter is breaking his concentration and causing him to be pulled into the portal (banished back to the Twisting Nether). It should also be noted that sometime after the events of Warcraft 3, Azgoth, a Pit Lord, was able to defeat Illidan. Given Mannoroth was the strongest Pit Lord, it's not a huge logical leap to say that Mannoroth is probably stronger than Illidan.
    Mannoroth was busy with the portal, but only before he is engaged. The ritual that he is casting is immediately interrupted by Illidan who engages with him in 1v1 combat. Mannoroth's concentration needed to be broken because he was still connected to the Well of Eternity. Illidan only states that after Mannoroth opens another, separate, massive portal on the shore of the well that allows him to start summoning more demons.

    So you're under the belief that Xuen, a Wild God who was special because he was one of four that Freya saw was dedicated to peace and wisdom, is greater than Cenarius, someone who is also a Wild God, who was the being who taught the mortal races Druidism, who has been explicitly called one of the strongest immortal beings on Azeroth, and whose mother is Elune (a celestial being of similar status to the Eternal Ones) and father is Malorne (one of the most powerful Wild Gods) for reasons unstated. Neat.
    I don't "believe" anything. Xuen simply scales to a far stronger character. Namely, the Ra+Aman'Thul empowered, Artifact weapon carrying Lei Shen who scales to Elemental Lords by virtue of having Ra's power. Meanwhile, Cenarius is practically featless.

  11. #151
    Why is this even a question

    Illidan was at his prime when he battled Arthas, he had consumed the skull of gul'dan. Meanwhile Arthas was not at his prime because he hadn't merged with Ner'zhul yet and was actually in a weakened state because Ner'zhul was getting weakened by Illidan attacking Northrend and Frostmourne was weakening due to that aspect.
    Which mean Arthas is vastly superior to Illidan in terms of power from every angle, if they had an all out battle where anything goes and it was like a WC3 match where you build a power base and go at it, Arthas is capable of resurrecting an unlimited army with undead dragons and the scourge. Illidan has Naga and his Illidari, Illidan loses 10/10 times.

    Mannoroth suffers from being poorly written, he's supposed to be this Lieutenant of the Burning Legion. He answers only to Archimonde. In Wc3 cinematic Mannoroth was defeated because Thrall threw a hammer at his wing and then Grom hit him with an axe. It just suffered from being made in an era where technology wasn't as advanced as it is now. Grom is a basic orc, there's nothing special about him... he doesn't have any magic super powers he's literally just a skilled fighter and nothing more.... he should not of been able to go one on one with a being like Mannoroth and been able to strike a killing blow on him as easily as he did.

    Blizzard has this weak point about them where they write these characters to be super powered until it's time for them to die and then they just get sneezed on and fall over or we use some super power weapon to defeat them.

    But once again it depends on the scenario, are you asking who wins in a one on one anything goes use any powers you have? or one on one and they are limited? Because if it's anything goes then it's scourge vs infernals. If it's one on one then it's Arthas wielding the powers of the jailer vs Mannoroth who wields the fel, it's just not something you can actually answer

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Ianus View Post
    yes cause thats blizz literal stance on lore
    What exactly is the position? That he is the most powerful being after Sargeras? Because Blizzard officially said that Lei Shen is stronger than Arthas. That he's the most important character in the universe? I don’t remember them saying that, and the father of the lore Metzen called Malfurion his favorite character

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    Why is this even a question

    Illidan was at his prime when he battled Arthas, he had consumed the skull of gul'dan. Meanwhile Arthas was not at his prime because he hadn't merged with Ner'zhul yet and was actually in a weakened state because Ner'zhul was getting weakened by Illidan attacking Northrend and Frostmourne was weakening due to that aspect.
    Which mean Arthas is vastly superior to Illidan in terms of power from every angle, if they had an all out battle where anything goes and it was like a WC3 match where you build a power base and go at it, Arthas is capable of resurrecting an unlimited army with undead dragons and the scourge. Illidan has Naga and his Illidari, Illidan loses 10/10 times.

    Mannoroth suffers from being poorly written, he's supposed to be this Lieutenant of the Burning Legion. He answers only to Archimonde. In Wc3 cinematic Mannoroth was defeated because Thrall threw a hammer at his wing and then Grom hit him with an axe. It just suffered from being made in an era where technology wasn't as advanced as it is now. Grom is a basic orc, there's nothing special about him... he doesn't have any magic super powers he's literally just a skilled fighter and nothing more.... he should not of been able to go one on one with a being like Mannoroth and been able to strike a killing blow on him as easily as he did.

    Blizzard has this weak point about them where they write these characters to be super powered until it's time for them to die and then they just get sneezed on and fall over or we use some super power weapon to defeat them.

    But once again it depends on the scenario, are you asking who wins in a one on one anything goes use any powers you have? or one on one and they are limited? Because if it's anything goes then it's scourge vs infernals. If it's one on one then it's Arthas wielding the powers of the jailer vs Mannoroth who wields the fel, it's just not something you can actually answer
    Ner'zhul gave Arthas almost all of his power before the battle with Illidan, the book literally says that Arthas became STRONGER than ever before.


    Illidan defeated Arthas 1v1, I have no idea why you compare their armies. But if you want to talk about exploits, how about Illidan blowing up the fucking planet?



    I don't know, Arthas is weaker than Lei Shen, I see no reason why he can't be weaker than Mannoroth

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    @darkoms

    It's actually hilarious how little self-awareness you have. The only one who's opinionated here is you. The notion that someone becomes only a fraction of themselves in terms of strength, speed, endurance and reactions simply because they don't know where they are is nothing more than pure nonsense. Not to mention that you ignored the part where he was knocked out repeatedly even after obtaining the Axe of Cenarius because you have 0 arguments against that.

    Like you said, old man. The difference is that one of the old men has magic. So no, Arthas didn't get defeated by just an "old man", unlike Blackhand, an Orc warrior like Grom, who did actually get defeated by a normal dude in his late 50's. That's the point them I'm making.

    And yes, Tirion was obviously amped by the Light, lmfao. What are you even saying here? Have you never done the LK fight or what? Once Tirion breaks out of the ice, the Ashbringer is surrounded by a glow of Holy Light that isn't normally present lol. It's genuinely funny how you don't even know that much.

    Nope, Illidan didn't play with Arthas whatsoever. That's literally not stated at any point anywhere in the story, more headcanon from you. Meanwhile, Rise of the Lich King explicitly tells you that Illidan was getting exhausted from their fight. Not to mention that it also says that Arthas had already been taxed by his previous bout with Kael before reaching Icecrown. More importantly, I have trouble understanding how you don't even know what the definition of the word "tank" is in this context. Why would you ever argue about these things when you're not even literate enough to do so in the first place? Arthas took multiple hits from Illidan's felfire, proceeded not to die and still had the strength to attack Illidan after that. That's the definition of tanking a hit. Get it right.

    No, Mannoroth wasn't busy with the portal at all. There's a good reason why you're yet to provide a source for your claims lol.

    I'm also not sure why you're bothering to post tooltips for Illidan's spells. We're not discussing WHY he is capable of keeping up with Mannoroth, we're discussing IF he is capable of keeping up with Mannoroth. If you agree that Nelf Illidan is faster than Mannoroth than you automatically agree that DK Arthas, let alone LK Arthas, is also faster than Manny, considering that DK Arthas was already evenly matched with Nelf Illidan. End of discussion.

    And yes, you are completely debunked, my guy. There's a good reason why you're yet to say anything about my rebuttal, and instead just choosing to repeat your argument over and over as if it hasn't already been refuted.

    What do you mean "What makes you think Arthas can run circles around Mannoroth"? Why do you think we have been discussing Nelf Illidan vs Mannoroth in terms of speed up until this point? Are you following the conversation at all? I know that Arthas can run circles around Mannoroth because he could already keep up with someone who could dodge upwards of 90% of Mannoroth's attacks before he becoming the Lich King. That's why.

    1)Wrong. Out the two characters in question, this only fully applies to Mannoroth whose 5 Infernals take a while to reach the ground and whose portals only allow him to summon a couple of minions with each wave. Meanwhile, Arthas' spirits and val'kyrs appear instantly, his ghouls and abominations appear almost instantly after a second and a half cast and he can summons dozens of those at a time, unlike Mannoroth.
    2)See above. More minions, faster to summon. Also, your argument falls apart once you factor in the numerous powerful units that the Scourge has at its' disposal.
    3)I only raised the point about Arthas' army because it would serve as an excellent distraction. If Mannoroth has to waste his time to deal with them, than it's already working.

    No, Arthas would still be weaker than Lei Shen. Just because he has an extremely potent form of soul stealing does not change the fact that Lei Shen still has higher raw stats than Arthas, both physically and magically. He still wouldn't be capable of engaging Lei Shen in any other way without losing resoundingly. That's like saying that I'm weaker than a poisonous flower because I can't deal with its' poison even though I could effortlessly crush it underfoot.

    Mannoroth would get curb stomped by Xuen and Lei Shen because he is that much weaker than them. And so would Cenarius. Just because he is a Wild God does not mean that he is on Xuen's level. Neither Mannoroth nor Cenarius have anything on these hill-sized dudes.

    As I said, what Thrall can do with the Doomhammer is not equivalent to what the Farseer can do with the Doomhammer, as Thrall specifically tells you himself. So yes, it was DEPOWERED, as a matter of fact. There rest of your point here is literal whataboutism

    The remaining two paragraphs that you wrote are literally nothing more than crying and seething about "fanboys" without any actual arguments so I won't bother to respond to their contents.
    Wow, you're tough, it's a pity that you still don't know lore. It's called disorientation and we have no idea how traveling through the portal affects anyone. I remind you that the portal tore Brox's friend apart. And after getting the axe, he was never knocked out. He was defeated by mages like Illidan, but he was never defeated by other warriors. You'd know this if you were actually reading books and not some YouTube idiots.



    Yes, and Arthas also had magic. In addition to his super sword, he also had a super helmet and it was in the very center of his lands (second time). I don't understand the relationship between Grommash and Blackhand. Do you know the power difference between them or what? I mean, Grommash (after drinking blood a second time) defeated Cenarius 1v1.



    Wow, so any time Arthas casts any spell he is under the influence of death? The paladin uses the power of the Light, there is nothing strange in this.




    And the book also says that Arthas was stronger than ever before after Ner'zhul's buff and he still couldn't do a damn thing once Illidan uses his true power and just burns him with fel fire. Arthas survived those fires because Illidan stopped burning him because he wanted to finish him off with his blades. Arthas collapses and nearly passes out as Frostmourne whispers to him to find the strength to strike. Arthas literally needs the support from his sword to gather his strength and strike. If Illidan had simply continued to burn him or shot him with beams from his eyes, Arthas would have been unable to do anything. You would know this if you weren't jerking off to Arthas the moment you read this passage. I'm surprised how your blatant ignorance of the lore coexists with your arrogance.



    Wow, you really don't know shit, do you?

    This is what happens in the dungeon

    Phase 2
    Mannoroth yells: Lord Sargeras, I will not fail you! Sweep your molten fist through this world so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!
    A massive demonic portal opens nearby!
    Illidan Stormrage yells: He is still connected to the well somehow! Focus your attacks on Mannoroth, we must disrupt his concentration!
    He opens a portal to summon demons, this is ANOTHER portal, this does not contradict his connection with the Well itself.

    This is what Nozdormu says
    I cannot simply fly up and grab the Dragon Soul. The old gods protect it.

    To make matters worse, their shield is strengthened by the swirling, arcane energies that emanate from the Well of Eternity, and those energies are being focused by the great demon Mannoroth.

    Distract Mannoroth, and the link between the Dragon Soul and the Well will be broken. Without the Well's power, the old gods' ward will be weakened, and the Dragon Soul will be vulnerable.

    DK Arthas was on par with Illidan who toyed with him and Illidan dodged attacks from Mannoroth who was focused on maintaining the portal. Also, speed will not help Arthas in any way if Mannoroth just wants to burn him like Illidan did.



    I don't see any rebuttals. All your fantasies I have already debunked, you are just pulling things out of your ass to make your idol look stronger.



    As I said above, DK Arthas was on par with Illidan who was playing with him and Illidan was dodging Mannoroth's attacks who were focused on maintaining the portal.



    1) Yes, he can do this when he is in the very center of his lands, just clogged with his soldiers. Amazing right?
    2) The more powerful the unit, the more difficult it is to summon it. At the same time, the demons are stronger than the undead. What happens if they meet
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Doo...#Patch_changes
    3) And Arthas will have to spend time summoning them. Mannoroth can simply burn them with all the fel fire, and summon the demons himself to distract Arthas. Or does it just work for your convenience?


    Yes, just like Mannoroth! I'm glad that you started to include logic.


    Do you have proof that he is much weaker than them? Or that Cenarius is much weaker than them?
    1) When Blizzard was asked about the depiction of Lei Shen and Xuen fighting in the Chronicles and their size, Blizzard said it was a combination of real facts and artistic exaggeration. But of course you didn't know about it because it's not related to your idol. Luckily you have me
    2) Size doesn't really mean that much. Cenarius is also one of the strongest wild gods. In the War of the Ancients, he was one of the last to fall, and only because he got too angry and ran too far.


    No, a weaker state than a prime state does not equal DEPOWERED. Depowered means no power at all. Lol, I just pointed out to you that LITERALLY THE SAME thing can be said about Ashbringer and you just ignored it because you can't say anything, lol? This is so dumb and funny that I don't know what to say. Either stop talking about the depowered Doomhammer nonsense, or admit that the same can be said about defeating Arthas because these are identical cases where the weapon in the players is described as more powerful than in the hands of the previous owners.

    Well, you really are an Arthas fanboy and it's pretty obvious from your post that you also act like an arrogant jerk while knowing absolutely nothing and ignoring what makes you uncomfortable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianus View Post
    When kids that havent been born or in dad plans while warcraft was made or played original games and then try to talk about lore from WoW perspective where simpnuser is main lore guy LOL.. get a f grip
    But we do not mention the knowledge of SL at all. We're only talking about Chronicles and the Arthas book or Dave Kosak's tweet. It looks like your ass is on fire that your deity is not as strong as you want.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    Not it isn't dude. Not just "toying"/"playing", other words like "arrogance" and "not taking the fight seriously" are never used in Rise of the Lich King. That's just your interpretation, your headcanon. Even other sources like the Chronicles attribute Arthas' victory to his amp from Ner'Zhul that was given to him at the time. Illidan's Arrogance is never mentioned anywhere.



    Mannoroth was busy with the portal, but only before he is engaged. The ritual that he is casting is immediately interrupted by Illidan who engages with him in 1v1 combat. Mannoroth's concentration needed to be broken because he was still connected to the Well of Eternity. Illidan only states that after Mannoroth opens another, separate, massive portal on the shore of the well that allows him to start summoning more demons.



    I don't "believe" anything. Xuen simply scales to a far stronger character. Namely, the Ra+Aman'Thul empowered, Artifact weapon carrying Lei Shen who scales to Elemental Lords by virtue of having Ra's power. Meanwhile, Cenarius is practically featless.

    The information in the Chronicle does not contradict the information in the book. For example, in Rise of the Horde, Ki'ljaeden was named the most powerful of all the Eredar leaders, and in Chronicle 2 he was named the most brilliant of them all. These two facts do not contradict each other and you can see Illidan's arrogance in the book. If he wanted to, he could just immediately start burning Arthas alive and Arthas couldn't do anything against it.

    Mannoroth was constantly busy with the portal. Your task is to literally break his concentration, which is why Malfurion can only exorcise the demons from the portal after defeating Mannoroth.


    I didn't quite understand what you wrote here. Are you describing how much strength it took to defeat Xuen? What artifact weapon are you talking about? Fists of Ra? Because Lei Shen did not learn to control them and did not use them in the battle against Xuen. The power of Ra also does not make you equal to the Elemental Lord. Ra needed the help of Hodir and Thorim to defeat AlAkir. You really shouldn't act like a lore expert if you don't even know these basic things.
    Last edited by darkoms; 2022-05-20 at 12:01 PM.

  13. #153
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    All across Nirn.
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    Not it isn't dude. Not just "toying"/"playing", other words like "arrogance" and "not taking the fight seriously" are never used in Rise of the Lich King. That's just your interpretation, your headcanon. Even other sources like the Chronicles attribute Arthas' victory to his amp from Ner'Zhul that was given to him at the time. Illidan's Arrogance is never mentioned anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthas: Rise of the Lich King
    “Doubtful,” Illidan sneered. “I am stronger than you know, and my master created yours! Come, pawn. I’ll dispatch the servant before I dispatch your pathetic—”

    Arthas charged. Frostmourne glowed and hummed in his hands, as eager for Illidan’s death as he was. The elf did not seem at all startled by the sudden rush, and with the utmost ease lifted his double-bladed weapon to parry. Frostmourne had broken ancient and powerful swords before, but this time, it simply clanged and grated against the glowing green metal. Illidan gave him a smirk as he held his ground. Arthas again felt unease flicker through him. Illidan was indeed changed by absorbing the power of the Skull of Gul’dan; for one thing, he was physically much stronger than he had been. Illidan chuckled, a deep and ugly sound, then shoved forcefully. It was Arthas who was forced to fall back, dropping to one knee to defend himself as the demon bore down on him.

    “It is sweet to turn the tables thus,” Illidan growled. “I might just kill you quickly, death knight, if you give me a good fight.”

    ...

    “This is what you have given me,” Illidan cried. His voice, bass to begin with, had somehow grown even deeper. Arthas felt it shiver along his bones. The demon’s eyes glowed fiercely in the swirling darkness that was his face. “This gift—this power. And it will destroy you!” A scream was torn from Arthas’s throat, and he fell again to his knees. Blazing green fire chased itself along his armor, seared his flesh, even dulled Frostmourne’s blue glow for a moment. Over the raw cry of his own torment he heard Illidan laughing. Again the fel fire cascaded over him and Arthas fell forward, gasping. But as the fire faded and he saw Illidan swooping in for the kill, he felt the ancient runeblade he still managed to grasp urge him to rally. Frostmourne was his, and he its, and so united, they were invincible.

    Just as Illidan lifted his blades for the kill, Arthas raised Frostmourne, thrusting upward with all his strength. He felt the blade connect, pierce flesh, strike deep.
    Illidan, a fighter is defined by his agility, was able to physically overpower Arthas, and opted to torment and mock him by burning him with fel fire instead of pushing the assault he was already winning. Moreover, instead of continuing the winning strategy, he decided to combine the Twin Blades of Azzinoth into a single weapon to finish off Arthas, and in doing so leaving himself exposed. Arthas won because Illidan saw himself as already having won.

    Quote Originally Posted by defibrillator View Post
    Mannoroth was busy with the portal, but only before he is engaged. The ritual that he is casting is immediately interrupted by Illidan who engages with him in 1v1 combat. Mannoroth's concentration needed to be broken because he was still connected to the Well of Eternity. Illidan only states that after Mannoroth opens another, separate, massive portal on the shore of the well that allows him to start summoning more demons.
    So your argument was that Mannoroth, who was the one controlling the chaotic energies of the Well of Eternity to hold open the portal, would be able to stop focusing on the portal, which he alone was holding open, and it would remain stable because of reasons unstated, ignoring that Illidan even explicitly states that Mannoroth maintained a connection to the Well of Eternity as the fight progresses. Amazing.

    I don't "believe" anything. Xuen simply scales to a far stronger character. Namely, the Ra+Aman'Thul empowered, Artifact weapon carrying Lei Shen who scales to Elemental Lords by virtue of having Ra's power. Meanwhile, Cenarius is practically featless.
    Lei Shen never used the Fist of Ra-den, and it was explicitly stated several times that he did not:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fist of Ra-den, Part Seven
    For all his might, Lei Shen could not harness the energies of the Fist of Ra-den and the Highkeeper's Ward. His inability to do so infuriated him. After all, Lei Shen had conquered the mogu and forged them into an empire. He had defeated Ra. How could two artifacts defy his will?

    But defy him they did. The shield and the fist weapon were simply too much even for the Thunder King to control. Every time he tried to use the artifacts, elemental energies lashed out at Lei Shen and overwhelmed him.

    Despite these repeated failures, Lei Shen did not give up. One way or another, he would harness the power of these ancient weapons.
    Regarding Xuen vs. Lei Shen, you're presenting it disingenuously. Xuen survived because of his speed, not because he could match Lei Shen's might, and Lei Shen was only impressed by Xuen's tenacity, not his power.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Duel of Thunder and Strength
    And so began the duel of legends. Lightning fell from the skies and the ground rumbled with the fury of these two fighters. Sorcery was matched with speed, hate was matched with strength.

    It is said this duel lasted for thirty days and thirty nights, and the emotions of this duel awoke the sha in great force.

    But in the end, Xuen fell, crushed by the sheer might of Lei Shen's unearthly power.

    "Your peasant magic is no match for my sorcery, fool of a tiger," Lei Shen bellowed. "I commend your tenacity, but your defiance must be punished."
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post

    Xuen survived because of his speed
    Where was it said?

  15. #155
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    All across Nirn.
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Where was it said?
    In the quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Duel of Thunder and Strength
    And so began the duel of legends. Lightning fell from the skies and the ground rumbled with the fury of these two fighters. Sorcery was matched with speed, hate was matched with strength.
    Xuen fought with speed and strength (with "strength" being ambiguous, given it being synonymous with a strong sense of character in several quests in Pandaria), and Lei Shen fought with sorcery and hate (which supports the idea of "strength" not being literal and likely being an inner strength).
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  16. #156
    Lich King > Illidan >Tichondrius≈Mannoroth

    I guess

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •