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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Fyi blizzard created some of the best games ever, starcraft, diablo, warcraft, without some social credit comissar
    Yes, they used to make great games. Its been a long time since they released the games you listed. Since then we have gotten new versions of them all, but nothing groundbreaking like SC,Diablo & Warcraft was.

    its a long time ago. What was, has been. Its over. Blizzard will never reproduce what they once did.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Yes, they used to make great games. Its been a long time since they released the games you listed. Since then we have gotten new versions of them all, but nothing groundbreaking like SC,Diablo & Warcraft was.

    its a long time ago. What was, has been. Its over. Blizzard will never reproduce what they once did.
    Because Overwatch doesn't exist, or Hearthstone.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I wonder what her twitter history is like...
    It says a lot more about you than it think it does that this is where your mind goes. Don't worry, the woke bogeyman isn't under your bed.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  4. #244
    Mechagnome Chilela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You can't hire actual developers if your company culture is trash. Do you know how hard it is to find good developers right now?
    Game development is an -extremely- competitive field. The number I recall hearing circa some years back for bigger companies is thousands of apps that bigger companies have to sift through. Even presuming most of the applicants are underqualified at best, I have a very hard time believing that even in their current state, they're sorely lacking applicants.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Because Overwatch doesn't exist, or Hearthstone.
    Are you comparing the effects of OW & HS with SC, Diablo & Warcraft?

    I mean sure, OW is a cool game. I play it now and then. But to compare it to the feats of the other IPs? No.

    HS is a card game and hardly game/genre defying.

  6. #246
    High Overlord Grax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It's an HR department that tries to maintain company values are consistent and sensible across teams, especially when it comes to hiring and onboarding new people.

    It's a totally normal thing to have, especially at larger tech companies, and even more especially when things are remote. It helps avoid problems like hiring someone, they fit great with their team, and then they change team and feel like they are at a totally different company and are no longer happy. Solid culture is a great way to ensure retention, and without a solid culture you are at an extreme disadvantage in hiring.

    The culture team at the company I work for does a lot of things like scheduling in person get togethers for remote employees and making sure new people have time to get to know their new coworkers socially.

    But yeah, I'm sure if you live in twitter and never leave your basement, that's all just "woke stuff".
    This sounds like stuff your average adult is, or at least was, capable of doing on their own. If you need someone else to do "things like scheduling in person get togethers for remote employees and making sure new people have time to get to know their new coworkers socially", I'm not sure you have the skills to independently function in the world. This is the job description of a day care babysitter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Someone in charge of culture is.... super normal at big tech companies. It's almost weird they didn't have it.

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    Oh no!

    Oh wait... https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...re-media-sport
    That's just as stupid and dystopian as the Ministry of Culture. Here's something else to think about: How many devs or QA techs or whatever could you hire for your VP Head of Culture's salary? How much you could improve benefits to your existing employees with the money that's being transferred to this new position? When has adding more administrative overhead improved anything?
    Last edited by Grax; 2022-05-06 at 04:16 PM.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    Game development is an -extremely- competitive field. The number I recall hearing circa some years back for bigger companies is thousands of apps that bigger companies have to sift through. Even presuming most of the applicants are underqualified at best, I have a very hard time believing that even in their current state, they're sorely lacking applicants.
    Game design is competitive. Development is not these days.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Are you comparing the effects of OW & HS with SC, Diablo & Warcraft?

    I mean sure, OW is a cool game. I play it now and then. But to compare it to the feats of the other IPs? No.

    HS is a card game and hardly game/genre defying.
    Overwatch blows it all out of the water. Like, you realize that it's their top selling game, right? If you include every different expansion as a different set of sales, sure WoW would beat it, but that would be faulty logic anyway to use.

    Just because you like the other 3 more doesn't mean that they did better.

    Hearthstone also further pushed the popularity of digital card games in the first place, and as far as I know, was one of the first to become so popular while introducing a card game that only works digitally, rather than trying to recreate a physical card game like Pokemon and MtG did.

  9. #249
    Mechagnome Indigenously Abled's Avatar
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    Hooray for more largely ceremonial positions.
    Thanks for the ad-hominem; it supports your inability to support your argument.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post
    This sounds like stuff your average adult is, or at least was, capable of doing on their own. If you need someone else to do "things like scheduling in person get togethers for remote employees and making sure new people have time to get to know their new coworkers socially", I'm not sure you have the skills to independently function in the world. This is the job description of a day care babysitter.
    Yeah, you just don't understand this issue at all because you are too busy being mad. Yes, you do need a department to do things like schedule gatherings for remote employees. In a big company, you have dozens of these things. You need to schedule flights, time off, book hotels, choose activities for the company to fund... This is full time work. Asking a dozen people of varying leadership levels to just "figure it out" is ridiculous.

    Do you know where I am not taking myself with over a decade of engineering experience? A company with no culture where a minor change in leadership could radically change my workplace, or where I can't predict the management styles the company will accept, or where I change team and now it's like I went to a whole new company. The idea that you can treat employees as poorly as you are advocating and expect to keep top talent is bizarre and it is making you look foolish that you are too busy being mad to realize this argument is embarrassing for you.

    That's just as stupid and dystopian as the Ministry of Culture.
    Yeah, a department that "manages tourism and leisure activities" is really a dystopian nightmare. Leave your basement. Get off twitter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post
    How many devs or QA techs or whatever could you hire for your VP Head of Culture's salary? How much you could improve benefits to your existing employees with the money that's being transferred to this new position? When has adding more administrative overhead improved anything?
    How many developers? Maybe two or three? That might even be a stretch. I make more than some of the VPs at my company and I'm just an engineer. Do you not know how ANY of this works??? That's not even how hiring works. If more developers was deemed productive, more developers would be hired. Do you actually think companies budget by comparison totally different departments that do different things?!?!?! Leave your house sometimes.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Overwatch blows it all out of the water. Like, you realize that it's their top selling game, right? If you include every different expansion as a different set of sales, sure WoW would beat it, but that would be faulty logic anyway to use.

    Just because you like the other 3 more doesn't mean that they did better.

    Hearthstone also further pushed the popularity of digital card games in the first place, and as far as I know, was one of the first to become so popular while introducing a card game that only works digitally, rather than trying to recreate a physical card game like Pokemon and MtG did.
    Comparing sales numbers with games released 20+ years ago is kind of moot. Shadowlands beat sale records to, surely its not the best version of wow? Selling/Buying games is also a whole different ballpark today then it was 20+ years ago.

    SC, Diablo & Warcraft was each genre defining games that shaped a generation of gamers & games. Ofc, especially Warcraft since that gave us wow.

    Overwatch & HS wont have that lasting impact at all. We wont sit here in 20+ years and talk about those games and the effects and changes they brought to the genres.

    But sure, if sale numbers is your sole factor to measure how games have had an effect, then you are both correct and very wrong at the same time.
    Last edited by crusadernero; 2022-05-06 at 04:25 PM.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Comparing sales numbers with games released 20+ years ago is kind of moot. Shadowlands beat sale records to, surely its not the best version of wow? Selling/Buying games is also a whole different ballpark today then it was 20+ years ago.

    SC, Diablo & Warcraft was each genre defining games that shaped a generation of gamers & games. Ofc, especially Warcraft since that gave us wow.

    Overwatch & HS wont have that lasting impact at all. We wont sit here in 20+ years and talk about those games and the effects and changes they brought to the genres.
    So you're just going to handwave facts? Overwatch has had the most attention, it was the most popular by a long shot. Of course it's going to have a lasting impact.

    There's a reason why there was so many knock offs of Overwatch after launch.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Because Overwatch doesn't exist, or Hearthstone.
    Those games came out ages ago . And Overwatch was not ground breaking or innovative. Neither was Hearthstone.
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Those games came out ages ago . And Overwatch was not ground breaking or innovative. Neither was Hearthstone.
    You say this as if WoW doesn't get the label of just copying from Everquest. Or that Blizzard wasn't constantly labeled as a company that just copied others.

    Overwatch was ground breaking. The success speaks for itself. This isn't really worth discussing or debating because at this point, it's clear people just want to stick their head in the sand and disagree for the sake of it.

  15. #255
    Mechagnome Chilela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Game design is competitive. Development is not these days.
    Guess that may also depend on level. Senior level I could see that being potentially applicable, while more junior-level positions remain a shitshow. Seems like 90+% of programming job openings are mid or senior-level nowadays.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You say this as if WoW doesn't get the label of just copying from Everquest. Or that Blizzard wasn't constantly labeled as a company that just copied others.

    Overwatch was ground breaking. The success speaks for itself. This isn't really worth discussing or debating because at this point, it's clear people just want to stick their head in the sand and disagree for the sake of it.

    Starcraft more or less laid the groundwork for Esports as an entertainment spectacle as we know it. WoW simultaneously made MMORPGs a mainstream gaming genre, whilst effectively changing how the genre was designed on a fundamental level. While both HS and OW both invigorated their respective genres, comparing them to SC/WoW borders on absurd.
    Last edited by Chilela; 2022-05-06 at 04:40 PM.

  16. #256
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post
    That's just as stupid and dystopian as the Ministry of Culture. Here's something else to think about: How many devs or QA techs or whatever could you hire for your VP Head of Culture's salary? How much you could improve benefits to your existing employees with the money that's being transferred to this new position? When has adding more administrative overhead improved anything?
    Improving benefits and hiring new propositions to improve culture is not an either or.

    Blizzard has already been improving benefits steadily since this has all began with things like increased paid time off moving all contract QA to full time positions so they get all the benefits that come with that and so on.

    And hiring people to stop the same abusive environment that’s been at blizzard for all these years from coming back is another benefit tot he employees.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    So you're just going to handwave facts? Overwatch has had the most attention, it was the most popular by a long shot. Of course it's going to have a lasting impact.

    There's a reason why there was so many knock offs of Overwatch after launch.
    Look, everything in the gaming world today moves faster and quicker. Everything sells lightning fast. Games that launches now and rakes in millions, are forgotten in a year. Games that hardly are unique or genre defining, but sells great. Nothing wrong with that. A good game is a good game.

    But, every once in a while games are released in various genres that have long lasting effects and are loved by millions of fans over decades. Games that never will be forgotten. These games quite literally made Blizzard what they are(were). Those games to this day are played world wide, one is still even has a fairly good esport scene.

    OW doesnt have that, at all. Its a fine game and its fun enough, but its nothing groundbreaking in the genre. They get another chance at it with OW2, so we will see then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You say this as if WoW doesn't get the label of just copying from Everquest. Or that Blizzard wasn't constantly labeled as a company that just copied others.

    Overwatch was ground breaking. The success speaks for itself. This isn't really worth discussing or debating because at this point, it's clear people just want to stick their head in the sand and disagree for the sake of it.
    In what way was OW groundbreaking?

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    Guess that may also depend on level. Senior level I could see that being potentially applicable, while more junior-level positions remain a shitshow. Seems like 90+% of programming job openings are mid or senior-level nowadays.
    Because people won't accept associate level even if its their first damn job anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    In what way was OW groundbreaking?
    OW and HS both led to giant waves of similar games trying to copy their success. You aren't living in the real world.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  19. #259
    So another made up position because of Blizzard HR inability to do anything.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You say this as if WoW doesn't get the label of just copying from Everquest. Or that Blizzard wasn't constantly labeled as a company that just copied others.

    Overwatch was ground breaking. The success speaks for itself. This isn't really worth discussing or debating because at this point, it's clear people just want to stick their head in the sand and disagree for the sake of it.
    Success does not equal groundbreaking . A shit ton of games are successful but hardly groundbreaking.
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

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