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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You say this as if WoW doesn't get the label of just copying from Everquest. Or that Blizzard wasn't constantly labeled as a company that just copied others.

    Overwatch was ground breaking. The success speaks for itself. This isn't really worth discussing or debating because at this point, it's clear people just want to stick their head in the sand and disagree for the sake of it.
    Success does not equal groundbreaking . A shit ton of games are successful but hardly groundbreaking.
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  2. #262
    The Patient Chilela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Because people won't accept associate level even if its their first damn job anymore.
    Can't say I'm familiar with the behaviors of other people on that front, can only speak from personal experience, where I've spent the past several years specifically seeking out Junior/associate/entry-level positions/internships.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    Can't say I'm familiar with the behaviors of other people on that front, can only speak from personal experience, where I've spent the past several years specifically seeking out Junior/associate/entry-level positions/internships.
    There's something really off if you are having trouble these last two years.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Look, everything in the gaming world today moves faster and quicker. Everything sells lightning fast. Games that launches now and rakes in millions, are forgotten in a year. Games that hardly are unique or genre defining, but sells great. Nothing wrong with that. A good game is a good game.
    This is a blatant attempt to just downplay it. Not every game sells 35m copies. Not even close. And mind you, the last time they said how much it sold (35m) was nearly 5 years ago. So it's hardly as if sales go down, it's probably closer to 40-50m by now. The only games that really surpass that are the ones that have been re-released far too many times on different platforms, like GTA5.

    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    But, every once in a while games are released in various genres that have long lasting effects and are loved by millions of fans over decades. Games that never will be forgotten. These games quite literally made Blizzard what they are(were). Those games to this day are played world wide, one is still even has a fairly good esport scene.

    OW doesnt have that, at all. Its a fine game and its fun enough, but its nothing groundbreaking in the genre. They get another chance at it with OW2, so we will see then.
    You say this as if Overwatch 2 didn't have a million viewers over the course of the beta key giveaway. Highly doubt that would happen if the game wasn't loved by millions trying to get access to it to play the beta. Especially considering there would be a turnover rate of viewers as people got access and left.

    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    In what way was OW groundbreaking?
    Let's answer this with a question instead.

    How many hero based team shooters did you see before Overwatch? Not class based, like TF2, where it's just a different set of weapons. But actual abilities and powers.

    Now how many did you see pop up after?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Success does not equal groundbreaking . A shit ton of games are successful but hardly groundbreaking.
    35m+ sales isn't just "successful". Really need to stop downplaying that, when that's a beyond a huge success.

  5. #265
    The Patient Chilela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    There's something really off if you are having trouble these last two years.
    I don't really disagree. Even I'll admit that I'm very much the tech equivalent of a raw prospect, which simply isn't good enough for just about any company, regardless of the level of the position in question. Which implies, at least to me, that it's still at least competitive enough where companies aren't willing to put much legwork into developing talents, and would much rather just defer that to other entities.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    Starcraft more or less laid the groundwork for Esports as an entertainment spectacle as we know it. WoW simultaneously made MMORPGs a mainstream gaming genre, whilst effectively changing how the genre was designed on a fundamental level. While both HS and OW both invigorated their respective genres, comparing them to SC/WoW borders on absurd.
    And yet Starcraft is beyond dead, while Hearthstone still has constant support and Overwatch is getting a sequel.

    The rose tinted glasses don't exactly help a debate. Especially when Starcraft mostly has a single region it's a huge success in, while other games like Dota 2 and LoL ended up contributing far more to the popularity of esports.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    I don't really disagree. Even I'll admit that I'm very much the tech equivalent of a raw prospect, which simply isn't good enough for just about any company, regardless of the level of the position in question. Which implies, at least to me, that it's still at least competitive enough where companies aren't willing to put much legwork into developing talents, and would much rather just defer that to other entities.
    I'm telling you that you are doing something wrong if you can't find engineering work these last two years.

  8. #268
    The Patient Chilela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    And yet Starcraft is beyond dead, while Hearthstone still has constant support and Overwatch is getting a sequel.

    The rose tinted glasses don't exactly help a debate. Especially when Starcraft mostly has a single region it's a huge success in, while other games like Dota 2 and LoL ended up contributing far more to the popularity of esports.
    Historical context is important. Yes, SC, as a franchise, is currently dead, but it effectively remained relevant for somewhere in the ballpark of 15 years. Whether or not HS will reach that milestone is to be seen, and it's fairly safe to say that OW won't get that far. Even if the beta did hit a million-plus views at one point, they would quickly tank, and history will likely remember OW as more a cautionary tale of handling games as an E-sport than anything else. While DotA/LoL would end up fully modernizing Esports, SC very much laid the groundwork, even if "mostly in one region".

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I'm telling you that you are doing something wrong if you can't find engineering work these last two years.
    Again, I don't disagree. I'm fully aware of what I'm doing "wrong", in this case, but if such firms were truly that hungry for new blood, I'd presume I'd at least see the occasional interview, if anything.
    Last edited by Chilela; 2022-05-06 at 05:05 PM.

  9. #269
    Every single one of these diversity hires probably costs the players content.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Jessica joins Blizzard after more than 14 years leading strategy, communications, operations and employee experience at the Walt Disney Company
    Well That's a massive red flag.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Every single one of these diversity hires probably costs the players content.
    How is this a diversity hire? This is HR. HR is dominated by women.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    Historical context is important. Yes, SC, as a franchise, is currently dead, but it effectively remained relevant for somewhere in the ballpark of 15 years. Whether or not HS will reach that milestone is to be seen, and it's fairly safe to say that OW won't get that far. Even if the beta did hit a million-plus views at one point, they would quickly tank, and history will likely remember OW as more a cautionary tale of handling games as an E-sport than anything else. While DotA/LoL would end up fully modernizing Esports, SC very much laid the groundwork, even if "mostly in one region".
    Did you even follow the viewers on OW2 beta? Coz it doesn't sound like you did if you think it quickly tanked. It tanked the next day, sure. But that's only to be expected when the first day was giving away beta keys. The draw wasn't just to watch it, it was to earn access to play it. Although you might just think it was a coincidence that they had queue issues the next day and server overloads trying to give everyone access to the beta who earned it then.

    Although it's really a funny point to try to claim historical context matters, as you compare the historical impact of a 24 year old game to a 6 year old game. Ignoring the success and impact Overwatch has just because it wasn't 20 years ago or 20 years worth of it so far is silly.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    How is this a diversity hire? This is HR. HR is dominated by women.
    "Head of Culture" Another useless title, and wasted salary.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    "Head of Culture" Another useless title, and wasted salary.
    It's a common title at every major tech company. This is the norm. It's just moving some aspects of HR over to their own department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    Historical context is important. Yes, SC, as a franchise, is currently dead, but it effectively remained relevant for somewhere in the ballpark of 15 years. Whether or not HS will reach that milestone is to be seen, and it's fairly safe to say that OW won't get that far. Even if the beta did hit a million-plus views at one point, they would quickly tank, and history will likely remember OW as more a cautionary tale of handling games as an E-sport than anything else. While DotA/LoL would end up fully modernizing Esports, SC very much laid the groundwork, even if "mostly in one region".

    Again, I don't disagree. I'm fully aware of what I'm doing "wrong", in this case, but if such firms were truly that hungry for new blood, I'd presume I'd at least see the occasional interview, if anything.
    My company can't get 5 applicants for entry level positions.

    Atlassian was giving $10,000 referral bonuses.

    Somethings wrong man.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It's a common title at every major tech company. This is the norm. It's just moving some aspects of HR over to their own department.

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    My company can't get 5 applicants for entry level positions.

    Atlassian was giving $10,000 referral bonuses.

    Somethings wrong man.
    "Common" Doubtful. It's just another wasted salary for people that contribute zero to the company to syphon off money.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    "Common" Doubtful. It's just another wasted salary for people that contribute zero to the company to syphon off money.
    How are you doubting that its common to have HR related positions

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    How are you doubting that its common to have HR related positions
    It's admittedly a redundant position. The first sentence of the article says it's the first of this position.

    It's silly people keep acting like Blizzard didn't have an HR department for the last few decades, and not all of a sudden they need two or three redundant teams of nonsensical waste.

  17. #277
    The Patient Chilela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Did you even follow the viewers on OW2 beta? Coz it doesn't sound like you did if you think it quickly tanked. It tanked the next day, sure. But that's only to be expected when the first day was giving away beta keys. The draw wasn't just to watch it, it was to earn access to play it. Although you might just think it was a coincidence that they had queue issues the next day and server overloads trying to give everyone access to the beta who earned it then.

    Although it's really a funny point to try to claim historical context matters, as you compare the historical impact of a 24 year old game to a 6 year old game. Ignoring the success and impact Overwatch has just because it wasn't 20 years ago or 20 years worth of it so far is silly.
    Sounds like people only really cared about keys then. And even given that, one would expect larger concurrent viewership for such an event, if the game is as groundbreaking as it is.

    And yes, I can claim historical context when all arrows point to OW, as an IP, quickly losing relevance in the grander scheme of the industry. I'm not going to take away from the success it managed early on, but Blizz played themselves, and I have all reason to believe the IP dies faster than SC, creating a smaller footprint on the games industry as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    My company can't get 5 applicants for entry level positions.

    Atlassian was giving $10,000 referral bonuses.

    Somethings wrong man.
    Sounds like it could very well be a visibility issue at that point. Granted, at least on Indeed, entry-level software dev positions have to get through the giant wall of Revature openings.

    (Side note: Doesn't help that most "entry level" openings still demand 2-3+ years of professional experience, for some reason)
    Last edited by Chilela; 2022-05-06 at 05:24 PM.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    "Common" Doubtful. It's just another wasted salary for people that contribute zero to the company to syphon off money.
    The last three companies I've worked at had at least a VP level role for this. You need to leave the house once in awhile, maybe spend a little less time getting mad on twitter. This is a perfectly normal position that is just an offshoot of functions HR would own at some companies. They do things like make sure job titles are accurate and align across the company, and make sure management styles are consistent across teams, and ensure the company values are being adhered to. The fact that you see all kinds of nefariousness in something this mundane indicates a severe case of Terminally Online Derangement Syndrome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    Sounds like people only really cared about keys then. And even given that, one would expect larger concurrent viewership for such an event, if the game is as groundbreaking as it is.

    And yes, I can claim historical context when all arrows point to OW, as an IP, quickly losing relevance in the grander scheme of the industry. I'm not going to take away from the success it managed early on, but Blizz played themselves, and I have all reason to believe the IP dies faster than SC, creating a smaller footprint on the games industry as a whole.



    Sounds like it could very well be a visibility issue at that point. Granted, at least on Indeed, entry-level software dev positions have to get through the giant wall of Revature openings.

    (Side note: Doesn't help that most "entry level" openings still demand 2-3+ years of professional experience, for some reason)
    Going to school counts as professional experienced and companies always overstate the needs for their positions. It's obnoxious. Are you not applying to places because of that? Just apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    It's admittedly a redundant position. The first sentence of the article says it's the first of this position.

    It's silly people keep acting like Blizzard didn't have an HR department for the last few decades, and not all of a sudden they need two or three redundant teams of nonsensical waste.
    At a large company, it makes sense to break culture out from day to day HR. Their functions are pretty different.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    It's admittedly a redundant position. The first sentence of the article says it's the first of this position.

    It's silly people keep acting like Blizzard didn't have an HR department for the last few decades, and not all of a sudden they need two or three redundant teams of nonsensical waste.
    You...you mean the very same HR department that did nothing in the last decade despite the amount of issues that was reported?

    Yeah, can't imagine why they would need to expand on their HR department.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    Sounds like people only really cared about keys then. And even given that, one would expect larger concurrent viewership for such an event, if the game is as groundbreaking as it is.
    You say this as if people normally watch games outside of events. It's less the game that's popular and more the streamer. Hence why Asmongold alone can alter the top trending just by whatever he's doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    And yes, I can claim historical context when all arrows point to OW, as an IP, quickly losing relevance in the grander scheme of the industry. I'm not going to take away from the success it managed early on, but Blizz played themselves, and I have all reason to believe the IP dies faster than SC, creating a smaller footprint on the games industry as a whole.
    Except there's nothing pointing to that. There's literally no reason to think that when the game is still active and is getting even more reason to be active. It's just rose tinted glasses preferring Starcraft.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The last three companies I've worked at had at least a VP level role for this. You need to leave the house once in awhile, maybe spend a little less time getting mad on twitter. This is a perfectly normal position that is just an offshoot of functions HR would own at some companies. They do things like make sure job titles are accurate and align across the company, and make sure management styles are consistent across teams, and ensure the company values are being adhered to. The fact that you see all kinds of nefariousness in something this mundane indicates a severe case of Terminally Online Derangement Syndrome.

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    Going to school counts as professional experienced and companies always overstate the needs for their positions. It's obnoxious. Are you not applying to places because of that? Just apply.

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    At a large company, it makes sense to break culture out from day to day HR. Their functions are pretty different.
    Good bit of personal anecdote and ad hom. Classy.

    But this is not mundane. It's a pattern of them wasting millions upon millions of dollars on nonsense. None of which will actually improve their business, again because it's redundant: HR, Culture, Equity and Dviersity. So now they have three salaries going toward nothing that the end consumer gets.

    People complain about development being mismanaged and losing content they want. Now the company is wasting our money on bullshit.

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