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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by molliewoof View Post
    what a fantastic episode, you could really tell the cast all loved it and are a talented group of actors (maybe not spock) . perhaps my favourite episode so far.

    there was a slip up when pike had a knife i thought, quite a glaring one but yeah a great episode

    I cried like a bitch that was fucking brilliant. Seriously. CLASSIC trek adventures. Like they could have went and turned the whoel ship into this CGI monstrosity put em all in a fucking green screen but instead they just decorated the actual set with like medieval stuff over top of the computer stuff. CLASSIC trek. The entire ending with the daughter damn....
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #162
    The helmsman is really starting to grow on me. Wasn't sure at first, but I'm enjoying her snark.

    Hope she gets her own episode here this season.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I cried like a bitch that was fucking brilliant. Seriously. CLASSIC trek adventures. Like they could have went and turned the whoel ship into this CGI monstrosity put em all in a fucking green screen but instead they just decorated the actual set with like medieval stuff over top of the computer stuff. CLASSIC trek. The entire ending with the daughter damn....
    ha yeah i hadnt thought about that with the set, even better.

    just really enjoyable-

    minor spoiler



    i really liked the part with the daughter but ive thought about t a little and might have liked the doctor to have solved it, thats the second time his skills have been overlooked this season

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    The helmsman is really starting to grow on me. Wasn't sure at first, but I'm enjoying her snark.

    Hope she gets her own episode here this season.
    agreed, her and chappel feel like the heart of the crew, also uhura was really allowed to shine this episode.

    i said this in an earlier post but ill say it again i wish we had the old style twenty episodes or at least more so we could fit them all in, i cant think of another series i wish this for even like early GOT or the boys

  4. #164
    This feels like another rebuke of the toxic fans meme. Sure, there are unpleasable nitpickers (many on this very forum), but it turns out that if you make a show your audience wants to see, it isn't profitable to trash it on youtube for clicks. Folks just...like it.

    IDK, maybe instead of a blaming things on an imaginary racist mob, Discovery and Picard actually just sucked. Makes you think.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    This feels like another rebuke of the toxic fans meme. Sure, there are unpleasable nitpickers (many on this very forum), but it turns out that if you make a show your audience wants to see, it isn't profitable to trash it on youtube for clicks. Folks just...like it.

    IDK, maybe instead of a blaming things on an imaginary racist mob, Discovery and Picard actually just sucked. Makes you think.
    They sucked and it had nothing to do with politics. The writing was bad and the characters sucked and none of it was star trek. People in picard vape.... thats not star trek man.

    It makes no sense because for the most part snw is made by the same people you see the same long running list of producers. I'm convinced they watched enough internet criticism about how bad picard was and why it was bad and made a show with that in mind.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2022-06-24 at 02:28 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    They sucked and it had nothing to do with politics. The writing was bad and the characters sucked and none of it was star trek. People in picard vape.... thats not star trek man.

    It makes no sense because for the most part snw is made by the same people you see the same long running list of producers. I'm convinced they watched enough internet criticism about how bad picard was and why it was bad and made a show with that in mind.
    I think to a certain extent picard's issue is that its patrick stewart's passion project. Every indication he has a lot of creative control.

    Discovery season 4 was definitely moving back into a classic trek feel. We went from screaming babies and evil galaxy destroying ai's, to a story about first contact with an alien entity.

    That and maybe the writers are just bad at stretching a story over 10 eps, as opposed to telling it briefly in 60min.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    They sucked and it had nothing to do with politics. The writing was bad and the characters sucked and none of it was star trek. People in picard vape.... thats not star trek man.

    It makes no sense because for the most part snw is made by the same people you see the same long running list of producers. I'm convinced they watched enough internet criticism about how bad picard was and why it was bad and made a show with that in mind.
    It's clearly a major adjustment! Dunno, I'll take it as a victory. Not a fan of Kurtzman et al, but hey if they can actually respond and deliver then it's whatever to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    I think to a certain extent picard's issue is that its patrick stewart's passion project. Every indication he has a lot of creative control.

    Discovery season 4 was definitely moving back into a classic trek feel. We went from screaming babies and evil galaxy destroying ai's, to a story about first contact with an alien entity.

    That and maybe the writers are just bad at stretching a story over 10 eps, as opposed to telling it briefly in 60min.
    I bet this is right. His character transformation started in Nemesis and was pretty cringey even then!

  8. #168
    I mean this is what I want from a Star Trek show. Granted I wish they would just move forward and place it sometime after the TNG era and just continue the stories and not constantly do the prequal thing but this is what I like from Star Trek shows. Basic episodes that boil down to being more about a crew interacting/figuring things out in a sci-fi environment. Not always the end of the universe stakes. Doesn't take itself to seriously all the time. Certainly has some serious moments still. Mostly episodic but a few threads that run though the episodes creating a semi-season arc.

  9. #169
    I enjoyed this episode again, I've been enjoying all of them, I still don't think they're on par with the Nxt Gen/DS9, Voyager yet, nor craving for the next episode like I usually am for Discovery - but maybe they'll get there, still enjoy watching them every week though.

  10. #170
    i'm usually not a fan of the medieval episodes but this one was worth it to see Anson 's character xD
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    This feels like another rebuke of the toxic fans meme. Sure, there are unpleasable nitpickers (many on this very forum), but it turns out that if you make a show your audience wants to see, it isn't profitable to trash it on youtube for clicks. Folks just...like it.

    IDK, maybe instead of a blaming things on an imaginary racist mob, Discovery and Picard actually just sucked. Makes you think.
    I think it's more that Discovery and Picard were made for a different audience than the audience intended for SNW.

    I agree that those two shows do not feel quite a lot like the Trek we had been used to, but that was likely intentional to appeal to a new audience. Maybe that was a good decision, maybe it wasn't. The only thing we know is that it was successful enough that we have five Trek shows right now and the existence of those two likely paved the way for the more classic-style SNW.

    I don't think any of them are bad, per se, just intended for different audiences. And that can be a shock to the old audience.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    It's clearly a major adjustment! Dunno, I'll take it as a victory. Not a fan of Kurtzman et al, but hey if they can actually respond and deliver then it's whatever to me.

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    I bet this is right. His character transformation started in Nemesis and was pretty cringey even then!
    It started in first contact when they tried to make it an action film and Frakes said this is what the fans want.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    It started in first contact when they tried to make it an action film and Frakes said this is what the fans want.
    Considering that First Contact is one of the most successful Star Trek films, I'd say he was right. Look at Wrath of Khan - wouldn't you say that was one of the more action-oriented films in the series? And look how well that did. Compare that to ST:TMP. How did that one do? How did Final Frontier do?
    How joyous to be in such a place! Where phishing is not only allowed, it is encouraged!

  14. #174
    Yeah I don't think the films work as a comparison honestly, they are all kinda actiony. Just not JJ Abrams insane shaky cam explosions everywhere actiony.

    I think fans (broadly speaking) like that kind of action. It just needs to be important and not gratuitous.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Yeah I don't think the films work as a comparison honestly, they are all kinda actiony. Just not JJ Abrams insane shaky cam explosions everywhere actiony.

    I think fans (broadly speaking) like that kind of action. It just needs to be important and not gratuitous.
    I think films lend themselves to a good two-parter type action episode of Trek. I also think, if you look at Nemesis, people try to cram action crap into it when it just doesn’t fit (ala the dune buggy thing). I felt Frakes walked that line really well in First Contact.

    Holy crap First Contact was a bit over 25 years ago. Time for my daily dose of “damn I’m old”…

    I really should go watch Khan again. If First Contact was 25 years ago I bet it’s been over 30 since I watched Khan…

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    Considering that First Contact is one of the most successful Star Trek films, I'd say he was right. Look at Wrath of Khan - wouldn't you say that was one of the more action-oriented films in the series? And look how well that did. Compare that to ST:TMP. How did that one do? How did Final Frontier do?
    It ain't star trek pal. That isn't to say star trek can't have action. It just shouldn't have this.




    yea yea now make a thousand excuses and justify it with dumb plot points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Yeah I don't think the films work as a comparison honestly, they are all kinda actiony. Just not JJ Abrams insane shaky cam explosions everywhere actiony.

    I think fans (broadly speaking) like that kind of action. It just needs to be important and not gratuitous.
    The first one is almost entirely cerebral with almost no.action. And was released right alongside star wars. Took alot of balls to not simple copy the trend
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Cubed View Post
    Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

    They literally made up his background with this season of the show. There's no ancient canon being changed (or suggested). Nothing. They randomly just decided to clone Kirk's background for him when there were tons of more creative options available, and even one of the myriad options there were only slightly different would have been preferred, such as the aforementioned idea of him being a hard-working farmer instead of a lazy rancher who likes horses.

    Lay off the fucking drugs, man.
    Actually, they're not making up his background in this season. It was done in 1966 in the original episode "The Cage" and cut in for "The Menagerie" in the original run. He was literally established as riding horses in quite literally the very first episode of Star Trek. That pilot was cancelled and they were forced to remake it with Kirk as captain.

    Instead of considering it a change in the universe, they just made it earlier in the timeline via the court martial in the original series. So, I'm a little perplexed here. Do you know nothing of the show's history and are you making things up?

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Yeah I don't think the films work as a comparison honestly, they are all kinda actiony. Just not JJ Abrams insane shaky cam explosions everywhere actiony.
    Personally, I feel all the JJ movies are easily better than V, Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis. I also like them better than III, First Contact and Khan, but not by much. Only Voyage Home, TMP, and Undiscovered Country are hands-down better, for me. And, even then, I think they stack up well. They're just different than old Trek, they're actually quite a lot more like SNW, in my opinion.

    And the music and visuals for all three movies are pretty stellar, especially the visuals compared to any previous Trek movie.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    Personally, I feel all the JJ movies are easily better than V, Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis. I also like them better than III, First Contact and Khan, but not by much. Only Voyage Home, TMP, and Undiscovered Country are hands-down better, for me. And, even then, I think they stack up well. They're just different than old Trek, they're actually quite a lot more like SNW, in my opinion.

    And the music and visuals for all three movies are pretty stellar, especially the visuals compared to any previous Trek movie.
    Dunno, depends how much you like his style I suppose. I thought Into Darkness was like insultingly annoying/bad/stupid.

    Beyond is also pretty stupid but I kind of enjoyed it anyway for some reason!

    I am not a big fan of the TNG movies either, except First Contact. That one still has a lot of great moments (funny and otherwise) as well as an incredible Goldsmith score.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post

    The first one is almost entirely cerebral with almost no.action. And was released right alongside star wars. Took alot of balls to not simple copy the trend
    Yeah but it's also the least popular by a longshot. You gotta make some sacrifices in genre fiction to get people to actually watch it. I think a lot of the movies get a pretty good mix. 2, 6, and 8 (the best, imo) have plenty of action but also lots of great character and drama moments!

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    It ain't star trek pal. That isn't to say star trek can't have action. It just shouldn't have this.




    yea yea now make a thousand excuses and justify it with dumb plot points.

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    The first one is almost entirely cerebral with almost no.action. And was released right alongside star wars. Took alot of balls to not simple copy the trend
    No, I'm not going to play to your attention-seeking behavior. I'm just going to ask you - was James T. Kirk more cerebral or more a man of action?

    Please think carefully before answering. I think even you will be able to come to the right conclusion.

    Given that Rodenberry himself described Star Trek as a "western in space", who do you think you are to decide what is and isn't Star Trek because it's more action-oriented? Do you find westerns too cerebral? Does it excite you when the hero and the villain sit around and calmly negotiate how big the town actually is?

    Oh, wait. They shoot at each other. Sounds pretty action-oriented, doesn't it?

    You're so desperate to prove your point, you completely ignore the fact that Wrath of Khan isn't just about the awesome space battles. It's also about Kirk's fear of growing old, and Khan's obsession with punishing Kirk, and other, more cerebral things. And that First Contact isn't just "boom go Borg", it's also about Picard overcoming his prejudice and hatred of the Borg, and the crew of the Enterprise helping guide our materialistic, war-loving society into the peaceful, utopian future Rodenberry set up in TOS.

    Yeah, you've missed all those things. And now, since I've so completely schooled you, I'm done with you. And you know what? That's one thing I won't miss.
    How joyous to be in such a place! Where phishing is not only allowed, it is encouraged!

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