Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[Skizzit]

Finally got around to watching Strange New Worlds and why the hell was this not what Nu-Trek was from the start? This is how you do a modern Trek series (interesting that is has a fair few similarities to The Orville), mostly self contained stories with some ongoing plotlines, a focus on fun sci-fi stories and not on drama, and a cast of interesting characters.

Really my only complaints are about the nature of the series and not it's content. It has all the same prequel problems like characters being invincible and little winks/references to future characters and events. That last one was compounded by the fact that it is also a sequel of sorts to a different series. Whenever something or someone that was mentioned but not explained, I was left wondering if it was a reference to something from Discovery, something that I am not supposed to know because it will be revealed later or just a cheeky mention of some future thing I just didn't recall. The pilot was the worst for this when characters not really being introduced and talk of Pike somehow knowing his future (something that was never explained in SNW).

All in all, really enjoyed it. It's too bad Discovery and Picard are nothing like this. Maybe they will learn something and make adjustments.

[molliewoof]

Finally got around to watching Strange New Worlds and why the hell was this not what Nu-Trek was from the start? This is how you do a modern Trek series (interesting that is has a fair few similarities to The Orville), mostly self contained stories with some ongoing plotlines, a focus on fun sci-fi stories and not on drama, and a cast of interesting characters.

Really my only complaints are about the nature of the series and not it's content. It has all the same prequel problems like characters being invincible and little winks/references to future characters and events. That last one was compounded by the fact that it is also a sequel of sorts to a different series. Whenever something or someone that was mentioned but not explained, I was left wondering if it was a reference to something from Discovery, something that I am not supposed to know because it will be revealed later or just a cheeky mention of some future thing I just didn't recall. The pilot was the worst for this when characters not really being introduced and talk of Pike somehow knowing his future (something that was never explained in SNW).

All in all, really enjoyed it. It's too bad Discovery and Picard are nothing like this. Maybe they will learn something and make adjustments.

Agreed, I'm never a fan of prequels or any destiny based storyline.

The best thing they could have done in that last episode was broke entirely away from that timeline, maybe kill Kirk or something, would have been a good twist to end on after a series building toward don't run from destiny.

But hey ho still a great series

[VMSmith]

why the hell was this not what Nu-Trek was from the start?

Because actors, directors, writers, and all kinds of other creative people want to do different things on different shows. If every Trek show was a carbon copy of TOS or TNG then viewers will start tuning out, eventually. As much as I enjoyed Voyager and have heard that Enterprise had some satisfying later seasons they both pretty much put "old" Trek in the grave. The Kelvin films, being quite tonally different, kept the franchise alive and Discovery re-invigorated it despite the wailing of the purists. Discovery, and Picard, brought in new viewers who were looking for something other than TNG-esque morality plays. And with Discovery's success, and then Picard's success, Paramount was free to start greenlighting other types of shows, including a more traditional Strange New Worlds. But make no mistake, there was no way they were just going to do the same old thing all over again, and it almost certainly would not have been very successful.

People need to figure out for themselves that not every piece of media within a particular franchise is going to be aimed solely at the original audience. Nobody greenlighting these budgets wants to intentionally shrink their audience, by playing it safe, with every new iteration. If you don't like Discovery, don't watch it. If you don't like Book of Boba Fett, don't watch it. If you don't like Ms. Marvel, don't watch it. If you're a big enough audience they will soon make something more to your tastes, anyway.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Because actors, directors, writers, and all kinds of other creative people want to do different things on different shows. If every Trek show was a carbon copy of TOS or TNG then viewers will start tuning out, eventually. As much as I enjoyed Voyager and have heard that Enterprise had some satisfying later seasons they both pretty much put "old" Trek in the grave. The Kelvin films, being quite tonally different, kept the franchise alive and Discovery re-invigorated it despite the wailing of the purists. Discovery, and Picard, brought in new viewers who were looking for something other than TNG-esque morality plays. And with Discovery's success, and then Picard's success, Paramount was free to start greenlighting other types of shows, including a more traditional Strange New Worlds. But make no mistake, there was no way they were just going to do the same old thing all over again, and it almost certainly would not have been very successful.

People need to figure out for themselves that not every piece of media within a particular franchise is going to be aimed solely at the original audience. Nobody greenlighting these budgets wants to intentionally shrink their audience, by playing it safe, with every new iteration. If you don't like Discovery, don't watch it. If you don't like Book of Boba Fett, don't watch it. If you don't like Ms. Marvel, don't watch it. If you're a big enough audience they will soon make something more to your tastes, anyway.

I completely agree with the second part. Do not get why people feel the need to watch everything.* I give shows a couple episodes at most to hook me, then move on!

That said, as someone who watched I think 2 eps of Discovery and 3 of Picard before turning them off, I'm curious what these two new shows will be. I've always wanted a political drama between major powers more like DS9 or Babylon 5, though I'm not sure how that would translate these days. Like the Bajoran Cardassian stuff was always awesome, asking the interesting questions of "what happens after the war??" which seems really rare.

Seems like they are really averse to that era though


*I think this is an issue with the content mill problem. Some of us are still used to the era of "hey there's a star wars movie every 3 years!" and it is like an event. But that's not true anymore, stuff is produced at an insane rate in the content mill, and the only way to keep your sanity is to just like stop watching crap you dont like even if you normally enjoy the IP.

[Skizzit]

I completely agree with the second part. Do not get why people feel the need to watch everything.* I give shows a couple episodes at most to hook me, then move on!

Agree. If only the people making said shows also agreed. It isn't really possibly to just watch the shows you like when everything is a connected universe now. Can you just watch The Mandalorian and not also watch the spin-offs like Boba Fett and the Ahsoka shows or Strange New Worlds without having seen Discovery or even the new Doctor Strange movie without having seen Wandavision? And I am not talking the little jokes and references, Pike's main motivation comes from something (a vision of his future?) that I think comes from Discovery and the antagonist of the Strange movie's entire motivation comes from Wandavision.

I am all for making media for all different kinds of people, but then don't make them all interconnected so you have to watch them all.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

well it's obviously a technique to get people to watch them all. I also find it annoying personally.

That said, i have never watched the Pike stuff in Discovery and it didn't seem hard to pick up anything! so Trek hasn't been too bad so far.

And I stopped watching Marvel shows after the first three left a really sour taste in my mouth, but then again I also have like 0 interest in the movies after endgame until they do X-men so I guess it doesn't matter!

[VMSmith]

And I am not talking the little jokes and references, Pike's main motivation comes from something (a vision of his future?) that I think comes from Discovery

It actually comes from The Original Series, but him becoming aware of his fate did indeed happen in Discovery. But knowing that he became aware of it via a Klingon Time Crystal is literally all you need to know from Discovery to appreciate SNW.

You do have a point about the interconnectedness of all these shows, but I just read what I need to know from what I don't want to watch and continue with what I do want to watch. Taking the MCU as an example, I dip into what interests me and pass on what doesn't and just read spoilers for what I may need to know.

[Mihalik]

People need to figure out for themselves that not every piece of media within a particular franchise is going to be aimed solely at the original audience.

Here's the thing. The one thing that made the Kelvin movies work for the original audiences, despite it being essentially just action flicks in the Star Trek universe, was that they did ultimately stay loyal to Rodenberry's vision of what Star Trek is meant to be.

A positive and hopeful future.

2 of the 3 movies fundamentally deal with internal failures in the Federation itself, an admiral on a warpath and a war veteran who was abandoned on the frontier.

But ultimately it was about overcoming and confronting those failures.

Discovery...just doesn't do anything of the sort until the final season. The Burn plotline was also absolutely abysmal. They came up with this great idea with the Burn, but it felt like they didn't know how to actually conclude it, which is why it's quickly discarded with the focus shifted to the Emerald Chain. By the way even the Burn plotline didn't make much sense for Trekkies as there's 50 years worth of lore on how warp travel works. "Dilithium" is not required for warp travel, it just happens to be a specific material the Federation prefers in their reactors, but it's been established that other races use other systems, like notably the Romulans use micro singularities that have nothing to do with dilithium, and Earth's first warp drive also didn't use dilithium but other means.

Picard's plot is weird, convoluted and all over the place. 2nd season sorta makes more sense...but it still does weird things to cannon.

I think what stood out both in Discovery and Picard was that everyone was miserable. No optimism, no hope. That's why when Pike showed up in Discovery it was a breath of fresh air.

[Vakna]

So I just started watching this, and I gotta say, the actor they chose for Pike is a fucking home run. I feel like he is a Starfleet captain in real life, he is perfect for the role.

[Skizzit]

It actually comes from The Original Series, but him becoming aware of his fate did indeed happen in Discovery. But knowing that he became aware of it via a Klingon Time Crystal is literally all you need to know from Discovery to appreciate SNW.

You do have a point about the interconnectedness of all these shows, but I just read what I need to know from what I don't want to watch and continue with what I do want to watch. Taking the MCU as an example, I dip into what interests me and pass on what doesn't and just read spoilers for what I may need to know.

Yeah, I am aware of Pike's fate, but I was talking about the vision or whatever. Him knowing his future is a major part of his character for all of the first season and outside of some vague flashes right at the start and a few conversations he has, it is never explained on SNW. Me, someone who had only seen the first half of season one of Discovery before deciding it wasn't for me, I spent the whole season waiting for the scene to fully explain it and it never came so I had to look it up online. That's really my only point. Some interconnectivity is fun, but some people are going way to hard with it.

[Skulltaker]

Here's the thing. The one thing that made the Kelvin movies work for the original audiences, despite it being essentially just action flicks in the Star Trek universe, was that they did ultimately stay loyal to Rodenberry's vision of what Star Trek is meant to be.

A positive and hopeful future.

Also a good and likeable cast of main characters that reinterpreted the classic ones.

[bloodwulf]

So I just started watching this, and I gotta say, the actor they chose for Pike is a fucking home run. I feel like he is a Starfleet captain in real life, he is perfect for the role.

Aston Mount has very quickly moved into my top 3 favorite captains. He oozes charisma and fits the role perfectly.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

So I just started watching this, and I gotta say, the actor they chose for Pike is a fucking home run. I feel like he is a Starfleet captain in real life, he is perfect for the role.

He is great

(and also insanely hot)

[Rocksteady 87]

He really as amazing casting. In fact, nearly everyone in the show has been amazingly cast. The only actor I have an issue with is Peck as Spock; I just don't think he does the character service. He lacks the raw gravitas and confidence that Nimoy brought to the role. Heck, Hemmer felt more like a true Vulcan in most of his scenes than Peck's Spock did.

But that's a completely subjective opinion. I don't think Peck is awful or a bad actor, I just don't think he's right for Spock. Which is more of a fault of Discovery's showrunners than SNWs. Everyone SNW has cast has been nailing it, along with Mount.

[Ivanstone]

I think what stood out both in Discovery and Picard was that everyone was miserable. No optimism, no hope. That's why when Pike showed up in Discovery it was a breath of fresh air.

That doesn’t even remotely describe Discovery or Picard. It’s like your projecting your own misery into both shows.

Discovery is entirely about the redemption of one character. From mutineer to Star Trek captain.

Picard is about how much work it takes to guarantee that hope. And why even the greatest amongst them still needs to do the work.

These things are not subtlety implied. They are very, very in your face.

Are Discovery and Picard the ideal presentations of these stories? No they are not. But neither are the Kelvin stories. Or many other singular bottle episodes produced through the years. But both hope and optimism are present in both.

[Skulltaker]

These things are not subtlety implied. They are very, very in your face.

Yes, but the story to get to these points is horribly crafted and poorly executed. Having a theme and something to talk about is not enough to create a good story. The Redemption of Burnham is only necessary because she makes decisions that are so mind-boggling dumb that she should have been chucked out of Starfleet right from the start. End of the story. The writers have a good idea for a story, but lack the tools to properly build it up. So you get a story with an interesting theme but shitty execution.

The same goes for Picard. Great scenes with both Picard and Q end of S2 and Picard and Data's conscience in S1. Credit where credit is due. There's actual emotion and weight to both scenes. They are good when taken in a vacuum. But the way to get to these scenes is utter nonsensical trash that tears down Picard as a character, his accomplishments, and the Federation as a whole. It's bad fan fiction levels of dumb. (Star Trek, often, hasn't been smart, btw. Let's not pretend that non-sensical stories are a new thing.)

And when Mihalik says everyone is miserable he has a point. It's one thing to have characters with some trauma in their past, but (especially the Picard characters) are defined by their suffering. And by doing so the show devalues what Starfleet officers are supposed to be. Trained professionals.

Strange New Worlds, on the other hand, gets all the interesting themes Picard and Discovery outline and simply does them well. It's like you're watching two shows from different studios. The difference in the quality of the story and understanding of what Star Trek is about is mind-boggling.

[Myradin]

Star Trek, often, hasn't been smart, btw. Let's not pretend that non-sensical stories are a new thing.

I think it just stings more because of the serialized format.

A bad trek story is usually sandwhiched between good or even great ones. Most of their overall ramifications are kept small.

Whereas in these shows each ep relies on the previous ones, and they can easily start dragging things down. Especially when they want to tackle bigger, galaxy-shaping topics.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Yeah, I am aware of Pike's fate, but I was talking about the vision or whatever. Him knowing his future is a major part of his character for all of the first season and outside of some vague flashes right at the start and a few conversations he has, it is never explained on SNW.

It really doesn't need to be fully explained. You are given more than enough information in SNW to understand the situation. He saw what happens to him in the future and it shook him up and he's making his peace with it now. This is not "going way too hard" on interconnectivity. It's far less interconnected than say, Miles O'Brien and Worf being on DS9.

[Ivanstone]

Yes, but the story to get to these points is horribly crafted and poorly executed. Having a theme and something to talk about is not enough to create a good story. The Redemption of Burnham is only necessary because she makes decisions that are so mind-boggling dumb that she should have been chucked out of Starfleet right from the start. End of the story. The writers have a good idea for a story, but lack the tools to properly build it up. So you get a story with an interesting theme but shitty execution.

The same goes for Picard. Great scenes with both Picard and Q end of S2 and Picard and Data's conscience in S1. Credit where credit is due. There's actual emotion and weight to both scenes. They are good when taken in a vacuum. But the way to get to these scenes is utter nonsensical trash that tears down Picard as a character, his accomplishments, and the Federation as a whole. It's bad fan fiction levels of dumb. (Star Trek, often, hasn't been smart, btw. Let's not pretend that non-sensical stories are a new thing.)

And when Mihalik says everyone is miserable he has a point. It's one thing to have characters with some trauma in their past, but (especially the Picard characters) are defined by their suffering. And by doing so the show devalues what Starfleet officers are supposed to be. Trained professionals.

Strange New Worlds, on the other hand, gets all the interesting themes Picard and Discovery outline and simply does them well. It's like you're watching two shows from different studios. The difference in the quality of the story and understanding of what Star Trek is about is mind-boggling.

The characters are not miserable. They have bad things that have happened to them and they work through those bad things. People bitch Raffi being a miserable shit head and drug user on top of that. What does the character need? Work. Purpose. She gets these two things and becomes the person she should be.

SNW is very good. It also had two soft pilots and didn’t have some of Discoveries birthing pains. The big problem with Discovery was that it wanted to be an action show with a Star Trek veneer. Trek fans didn’t necessarily want that which is why it’s been moving away from that. In SNW, if they fuck up an episode it’s not a big deal. Discovery goofs and it can hurt the entire season. And it doesn’t have Vince Gilligan level writing here.

SNW also shone a light on Disco’s other problem: It ain’t funny. The Elysian Kingdom episode was a great, and silly, one-off where most of the cast gets to play against type.

[VMSmith]

It's one thing to have characters with some trauma in their past, but (especially the Picard characters) are defined by their suffering. And by doing so the show devalues what Starfleet officers are supposed to be. Trained professionals.

Did you enjoy First Contact? Because that entire movie was about Picard dealing with the trauma of his assimilation. He acts absolutely out of character numerous times due to that trauma and it takes someone screaming in his face about what really matters to get him to screw his head back on right. The entire crew acts entirely unprofessional numerous times, particularly as regards corruption to the timeline and Picard is the worst because he repeatedly lets his personal feelings override what's best for everyone else.