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  1. #1

    “I know the fight I don’t need Discord”

    In my 15+ years of raid leading (mostly pugs) I have consistently had the most problems with anyone who says this. They are Always the first to rage quit.

    Generally my groups have a couple different skill levels of players, and the groups are usually competent but not completely-overpowering-the-fight-competent.

    It’s frustrating because I hate to turn down qualified players but there’s so many fights where communication is key. Target swaps, dodges, healing CDs, doesn’t matter if a player has killed a few twelve times, if they want to do it the current one they need to be working with the team.

    There’s only one or two other groups of players I’ve had as much trouble with. I’m not going to mention them by name, but they weren’t an issue when I was fighting Ragnaros in vanilla.
    Screenshot of realm balance in 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20060328...realmstats.php
    Illdian and Mal'Ganis were 50-50 and Tichondrius was the most Horde-heavy at 60-40.

  2. #2
    It makes perfect sense but I wouldn't be caught dead joining a strange Discord. Not sure how people do it, honestly!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    It makes perfect sense but I wouldn't be caught dead joining a strange Discord. Not sure how people do it, honestly!
    You can always join and mute yourself (or even everyone if youre that confident). But at least, do the only thing someone requires you to when they inv you to their raid group.

    Its extremely disrespectful to join some raid group where they even say that voice com is required- and then just to ignore the only requirement.

    I never inv such people.


    This comes from someone who got few CEs as pug RL.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    You can always join and mute yourself (or even everyone if youre that confident). But at least, do the only thing someone requires you to when they inv you to their raid group.

    Its extremely disrespectful to join some raid group where they even say that voice com is required- and then just to ignore the only requirement.

    I never inv such people.

    This comes from someone who got few CEs as pug RL.
    Oh I know, I just don't pug raids personally. Easier to just do keys and not worry about getting creeped on

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Oh I know, I just don't pug raids personally. Easier to just do keys and not worry about getting creeped on
    raids that allow that kind of behaviour aren't worth joining anyway whether or not they use discord and whether or not they're successful

  6. #6
    I'm not joining a discord to talk to randos. It's unnecessary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Oh I know, I just don't pug raids personally. Easier to just do keys and not worry about getting creeped on
    Why would you get creeped on?

  7. #7
    Orcboi NatePsy's Avatar
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    I did it all the time because once you know the fights like the back of your hand, no amount of raid comms is going to add anything further other than the annoying loud clicks of keyboards and mice because some dumbass doesn't know what a hot mic is.

  8. #8
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    Why would you get creeped on?
    Because some people on the internet are girls, and some who aren't are super creepy when they find out. Not sure if that's what the problem is, but it absolutely happens.

    OP: You don't need discord for heroic raids, with current gear you can bruteforce it for the most part, or just solve CD timings before the pull

  9. #9
    I would join discord or the good old ventrilo(old days) if it was required. joined, muted. Sometimes I would talk, most often not. I join for the sake of it and at the very least I get all info directly.

    If ppl are annoying ie talking alot or hear the sound of keyboard clicks, I mute them all except raid leader.

  10. #10
    once you know the fights like the back of your hand, no amount of raid comms is going to add anything further
    This is exactly the attitude I’m discussing.

    First off I’d argue it’s just straight wrong, because some fights even if you know what the boss does it’s not clear how the current raid is dealing with the mechanics.

    Denathrius P1 great example. The number of wipes caused by people that pushed P2 early because they couldn’t stop padding was silly. (That bleeds in to parse culture as well, but still if a player isn’t in discord they can’t hear the stops called.)

    Fatescribe was also a great example when people needed help with rings.

    Anduin to some extent, sorting out CCs on adds is definitely aided by discord.

    Battle rezzes are another example, some times it makes a whole lot of sense to rez different people depending on the situation.

    And actually that’s all a big part of it, voice chat is really there for when things go wrong, not for when things are going right. And these people assuming everything in a pug is gonna go super smooth, that’s rarely the case unless the group is really, really overpowering the fight.

    Many of the people that don’t want to join Discord are way overqualified so I hate to pass on them. (And if they weren’t overqualified and also didn’t want discord it’s easier to just pass on them.) But it is uniquely frustrating to have these players obviously available for discord yet feel they’re too good to bother.

    All told though, I feel these players tend to not be worth the effort.
    Last edited by garicasha; 2022-05-07 at 07:06 AM.
    Screenshot of realm balance in 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20060328...realmstats.php
    Illdian and Mal'Ganis were 50-50 and Tichondrius was the most Horde-heavy at 60-40.

  11. #11
    Funny how on the one hand, people complaint that WoW is getting a "lone wolf" mmo without any socializing and on the other hand, people complain about a socializing aspect of the game

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    It makes perfect sense but I wouldn't be caught dead joining a strange Discord. Not sure how people do it, honestly!
    Eh, I've had my fair share of just joining random discords for pugs back in Legion/BfA. If there's anything truly terrible from the moment I enter, I'd leave, but usually I just leave Discord after and as long as you have your privacy settings fine, it shouldn't be terrible. Stuff like "Only accept DMs from friends", or better yet, flip off "Allow Direct messages from server members", so in general any server you join won't allow the people there to DM you. And then you can individually pick and choose what servers CAN DM you directly by just adjusting the privacy settings per server.

    But generally speaking, it's not too surprising if someone actually does know the fight that they'd rage quit seeing people not doing it and causing wipes. Granted, the amount of times that actually applies is...well, rather low admittedly, but even then...people who think they know the fight are also going to act the same.

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    I only join Discord servers where my friends are present. I no longer join Discord servers or make calls with strangers. There has been far too much abuse for me to continue. Fortunately, the Discord platform recently changed the rules, and it is now possible to report misbehaving users. Except for the three final bosses, I believe there is no need for discord in heroic raids. It’s much safer to do it with guild.
    Behold my new creation!


  14. #14
    I don't see anything wrong with joining "random discords"
    I mean if someone starts to harass you, block them.
    Voice coordination is infinitely better than no voice coordination.

    "fear of abuse" or whatever is not a reason to not join voice com. If you aren't going to comply, might as well take the boot.

    edit;
    If someone is caught harassing, they will swiftly be kicked out of the raid and discord, this kind of behavior is obviously not tolerated.
    I 3d print stuff

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    All told though, I feel these players tend to not be worth the effort.
    What effort might that be? Are you saying your 15 years raid leading supercedes my 15 years healing experience, in the job of healing? You know better who I'm to heal and at which time, than I do? I'd love to see that raid tbh, where raid lead calls each healer and shouts out their second to second healing assignments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

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    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  16. #16
    I think it’s also important to clarify what I mean by pug.

    I am waking up at 4p (I work in Vegas) decide I want to try and get a boss down, and hop in to LFD tool and forge a group of complete strangers with no prior planning whatsoever.

    In the past when my work schedule permitted I would do what I called a guild-neutral run each week at a set time and tried to get as many returning players each week as I could.

    I also think some people think a run with 18 guildies and two pugs is a “pug”, which to me it is not.

    But if you’re making the group completely with random players there’s gonna be one bad in the raid minimum no matter how hard you check parses or m+ scores or whatever.

    Which is what makes the super elitist players impossible to pug with as they see the bad and ragequit.
    Screenshot of realm balance in 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20060328...realmstats.php
    Illdian and Mal'Ganis were 50-50 and Tichondrius was the most Horde-heavy at 60-40.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    What effort might that be? Are you saying your 15 years raid leading supercedes my 15 years healing experience, in the job of healing? You know better who I'm to heal and at which time, than I do? I'd love to see that raid tbh, where raid lead calls each healer and shouts out their second to second healing assignments.
    Its not about telling you who to heal, it's about calling out a raid cd, it's about telling X player to go to Y position for Z mechanic, which a lot of the time is to be called on the spot. All your 15 years of healing experience won't help you telepathically know which attack you are to soak, or which player to dispel... i mean the list goes on and on.

    Judging by your argument, assuming that all voice com is for is for telling the healer who to heal, i'll assume you don't do much end game content. "im healer so i dont do mechanics, just heal who takes damage". LFR mentality
    I 3d print stuff

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    In my 15+ years of raid leading (mostly pugs) I have consistently had the most problems with anyone who says this. They are Always the first to rage quit.

    Generally my groups have a couple different skill levels of players, and the groups are usually competent but not completely-overpowering-the-fight-competent.

    It’s frustrating because I hate to turn down qualified players but there’s so many fights where communication is key. Target swaps, dodges, healing CDs, doesn’t matter if a player has killed a few twelve times, if they want to do it the current one they need to be working with the team.

    There’s only one or two other groups of players I’ve had as much trouble with. I’m not going to mention them by name, but they weren’t an issue when I was fighting Ragnaros in vanilla.
    For the one or two fights for which it is indeed necessary i'll join Discord. To clarify: This means pugging either later heroic bosses or mythic bosses (or exceptions, like i.e. Mekkatorque).

    Before that there is absolutely no reason for me to indulge in the distracting and often counterproductive nasal screechings and mutterings of people that really aren't any improvement over sweet silence.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    This is exactly the attitude I’m discussing.

    First off I’d argue it’s just straight wrong, because some fights even if you know what the boss does it’s not clear how the current raid is dealing with the mechanics.

    Denathrius P1 great example. The number of wipes caused by people that pushed P2 early because they couldn’t stop padding was silly. (That bleeds in to parse culture as well, but still if a player isn’t in discord they can’t hear the stops called.)

    Fatescribe was also a great example when people needed help with rings.

    Anduin to some extent, sorting out CCs on adds is definitely aided by discord.

    Battle rezzes are another example, some times it makes a whole lot of sense to rez different people depending on the situation.

    And actually that’s all a big part of it, voice chat is really there for when things go wrong, not for when things are going right. And these people assuming everything in a pug is gonna go super smooth, that’s rarely the case unless the group is really, really overpowering the fight.

    Many of the people that don’t want to join Discord are way overqualified so I hate to pass on them. (And if they weren’t overqualified and also didn’t want discord it’s easier to just pass on them.) But it is uniquely frustrating to have these players obviously available for discord yet feel they’re too good to bother.

    All told though, I feel these players tend to not be worth the effort.
    For me, it comes down to the difficulty of the raid and also if it's the first time anyone's done the raid. Like if it's a Normal mode raid, you're probably not going to need VC because the fights are pretty simple. It's just one or two things to follow while the Tanks or Healers get the bigger responsibilities when it comes to fights that require a lot of attention. All DPS know is what to kill and/or in what order to kill, very rarely do you have a fight where a DPS will have to do anything else BESIDES being a DPS.

    Actual VC requirements would be something where there's a chance for a margin of error, like that one mechanic from the Inquisitor in Ny'alotha where you have to hit a void ball around like a soccer ball. That one requires some coordination that you can only get from VC. It's one thing to know your placement, but it's another thing to know when a mechanic has some level of unpredictability behind it.

    Heroic and Mythic difficulties pretty much NEED VC because of new added mechanics involved.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    In my 15+ years of raid leading (mostly pugs)
    off topic but I have so much respect for raid leaders that lead pugs. players like you are Blizzards most valuable asset. if Blizzard somehow rewarded pug leaders then LFR would have never been needed and everyone would get a more fulfilling raiding experience. I know I owe every epic experience I've ever had raiding to the person leading the pug. so thank you, Garicasha!

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