“I know the fight I don’t need Discord”

[peter92q]

The difference between vanilla wow's strong community and people being anti-social in current retail is far beyong a simple discord. Ask yourself this, why do people NOT want to join voice chat? Because they've got better stuff to do, listening to music, a podcast, tv, or whatever. Would I listen to some random guy nag at me while I'm doing chores around the house? No, so why would I do it in-game? In World of Chorecraft, people just don't wanna be bothered while they're playing their favorite game they are so tired of.

[Tziva]

I think it's disingenuous, overly simplistic, and just plain incorrect to assume because some people don't want to join a discord with a bunch of strangers that they are antisocial or just using people. A lot of us have spent years making and developing friendships and being social largely through text in games, and most probably also have social circles of more familiar people that they are happy to use voice chat with. The dynamics with strangers are different and sometimes uncomfortable or unpredictable, and we acknowledge that in real life, so I don't know why we wouldn't in games.

To be sure, there are plenty of people who play the game as a solo experience and do have antisocial behaviour but I think it's super inaccurate to lump everyone who is unenthusiastic about voice comms with strangers under this umbrella.

[garicasha]

That’s the best counter-argument so far.

And this is not a response to your post specifically but I just came up with a metaphor to summarize my position.

I feel like not joining discord is like a 20-year veteran of the police force showing up to work and saying, “I know how to do my job I’m not listening to the radio today.”

[Zorachus]

Screw voice chatting in WoW, I don't want to talk people while playing, I have a sweet 7.2 surround sound set up I LOVE hearing the game, and view it on my 48" OLED in 4k. Last thing I want to do, is put headphones on and chat with strangers. Plus I like to play music in the background while playing WoW.

Why don't people type anymore?

Plus I know the boss fight mechanics, just let me join and I'll play well. If not, oh well, no skin off my back, I'll just run M+ 15's, where voice chat is not required.

[Eli85]

Starting in MoP, i noticed that most people don't want to play with other people in MMOs, they just want to use people to get loot.

During Wrath, pugs would ask to join vent right away, nowadays, its almost as if they are scared to talk to other people. In an MMO, which requires communication.

STFU and get your ass in discord.

What we need to do is just enforce it. I run a normal pug every Tuesdays, and i put discord mandatory, if people dont join they get booted.

So a few things:

1. Those of us who don't want to join Discords are not "scared to talk to other people." It's more that the lion's share of comms on Discord are socializing / not relevant raid comms, and why should we want to listen to that when we're never going to interact ever again?

2. Yes, co-op games like this, do require communication. That does not mean voice communication. Which leads into the third ....

3. As players have engaged in raid content over the years, more and more people are realizing that you don't actually need to communicate over voice to handle mechanics, especially in WoW with so many add-ons available. The only essential raid-related communication that exists is: position and role assignments (including healing CD order, interrupt rotations etc). All of this can be quickly posted in chat, or loaded up in something like Angry Assignments.

So, so many people in this thread don't seem to grasp the difference between -want- and -need-. You may want people in Discord, but you do not need people in Discord, and that's because this game's mechanics, even at a mythic raiding level, do not require it, unless you're in the world first race. But even then the Weak Auras are doing most of the raid leading.

[TheRevenantHero]

"I know the fight, I'm not getting in discord." Ok well then you're not getting on this team. Raids aren't heroic dungeons. You need to listen to callouts. If you're so paranoid then make a throwaway account purely for raiding purposes like I've done. If someone is going to make a big stink about discord then they can fuck off and find another group.

[Zenfoldor]

It continues to suck that I have to use a 3rd party application to actually play WoW, but at the same time, it also really sucks not to hear voice communications during a raid. Discord is a necessary but crappy part of the wow experience. Now, the program itself, I'm sure it's fine or it wouldn't be the current program, but not everybody likes to voice chat online.

I run vent in the background and have a different push to talk on vent, so I can chat with my clique while raiding, and just listen to the callouts and chatter in discord, but never participate.

It's like mystery science theater 3000, we go for broke in vent.

I could finally shut down vent if I could run 2 discords and have a different push to talk on each one, on the same computer. Is that possible?

[Bigbazz]

"I know the fight I don't need discord" is sometimes legit and sometimes not. Entirely depends on the specifics. I've seen a lot of times where lack of communication or leadership via discord is the sole reason a raid goes down the shitter, and also the sole reason the raid goes so smoothly. The harder the content the more important it is to have good communication.

And it doesn't even have to mean you talk, usually the opposite. It usually means the leader can relay important information to help steer things in the right direction. And sure sometimes it's entirely unnecessary, often infact, but sometimes it is. If you don't want to use Discord and the leader requires it then you just don't join the group and it's not a big deal.

[munkeyinorbit]

In my 15+ years of raid leading (mostly pugs) I have consistently had the most problems with anyone who says this. They are Always the first to rage quit.

Generally my groups have a couple different skill levels of players, and the groups are usually competent but not completely-overpowering-the-fight-competent.

It’s frustrating because I hate to turn down qualified players but there’s so many fights where communication is key. Target swaps, dodges, healing CDs, doesn’t matter if a player has killed a few twelve times, if they want to do it the current one they need to be working with the team.

There’s only one or two other groups of players I’ve had as much trouble with. I’m not going to mention them by name, but they weren’t an issue when I was fighting Ragnaros in vanilla.

They are not qualified players if they don't follow your rules. Boot them. It's that simple.

- - - Updated - - -

Because some people on the internet are girls, and some who aren't are super creepy when they find out. Not sure if that's what the problem is, but it absolutely happens.

OP: You don't need discord for heroic raids, with current gear you can bruteforce it for the most part, or just solve CD timings before the pull

Or keep doing what you're doing and boot anyone who refuses to follow the rules. Why put up with other people's bullshit?

[Devilyaki]

It continues to suck that I have to use a 3rd party application to actually play WoW, but at the same time, it also really sucks not to hear voice communications during a raid. Discord is a necessary but crappy part of the wow experience. Now, the program itself, I'm sure it's fine or it wouldn't be the current program, but not everybody likes to voice chat online.

I run vent in the background and have a different push to talk on vent, so I can chat with my clique while raiding, and just listen to the callouts and chatter in discord, but never participate.

It's like mystery science theater 3000, we go for broke in vent.

I could finally shut down vent if I could run 2 discords and have a different push to talk on each one, on the same computer. Is that possible?

Everyone has there thing but do you really have another voice chat open just to shit talk people in the other?

[FiveDkp]

Yeah, I used to raid lead a lot of PUG/Viewer Raids and it get to the epitome of frustration when people would simply refuse to get onto discord for the first few weeks of content.

Generally for normal, I just let it go after 4-5 weeks since Normal generally isn't that difficult. I generally have it on for Heroic as Heroic always has the mechanics that require it.

I can get the OP's point. I had the exact same struggles with those sort of people who wouldn't want to get in discord. Some are good and others are just like mate, if you were in discord, we would have known.

To people about typing, it takes a lot of raid warnings/messages to type out a lot of strats and sometimes you have to say things on the fly. Can be rough to type mid-fight while doing a rotation.

I have to give you credit for sticking it out as long as you did. I quit WoW and one of the reasons was viewer raidleading burnout. It is a bit 50/50 on myself and some of the problem people i took into raid. Shoutout to Spuds on Barthilas, HordeYakka on Jubei'thos and few others, they were always incredibly helpful

Yes (I am Jose/WingsQT)

[Tehalbino]

No voice and just kicking underperformers is a much better solution.

There are pretty much no fights that 'require' voice (now more than ever with how ridiculous weak auras have gotten), and any that would for whatever reason are just bad by design.
Just about every player I've come across that prefers or 'needs' discord tends to be subpar, and the conversation either during or outside of the pull is useless or just flat annoying.

The most challenging content I've done all expansion was pugging Week 1 aotc Denathrius (~190 ilvl and only 2nd row of conduits unlocked). Didn't need voice, and there where less than a 100 'guilds' that downed it the first week.


Voice isn't going to help Timmy do more damage by not messing up his rotation or stopping him from moving at inopportune times, or have him preemptively prepared for x mechanic or where to go next.


pug groups only wipe because they have people actively looking to get carried and are filled with gray/green/blue parse Andy's that are simply oblivious and don't know any better.


This type of thread is in the same tier as the M+ timer removal ones. Just people that are incapable of coming to terms with their own or others' ability level.

[MidnyteTV]

So a few things:

1. Those of us who don't want to join Discords are not "scared to talk to other people." It's more that the lion's share of comms on Discord are socializing / not relevant raid comms, and why should we want to listen to that when we're never going to interact ever again?

2. Yes, co-op games like this, do require communication. That does not mean voice communication. Which leads into the third ....

3. As players have engaged in raid content over the years, more and more people are realizing that you don't actually need to communicate over voice to handle mechanics, especially in WoW with so many add-ons available. The only essential raid-related communication that exists is: position and role assignments (including healing CD order, interrupt rotations etc). All of this can be quickly posted in chat, or loaded up in something like Angry Assignments.

So, so many people in this thread don't seem to grasp the difference between -want- and -need-. You may want people in Discord, but you do not need people in Discord, and that's because this game's mechanics, even at a mythic raiding level, do not require it, unless you're in the world first race. But even then the Weak Auras are doing most of the raid leading.

So much bullshit in this post.

1. Part of WoW is playing with other people, talking to them, human beings are known for making small talk during downtime. If you actually socialized with humans, you'd know this and you're either comfortable with it, or you're not. Get over yourself. Secondly, I met some great people in pugs, people that eventually became lifelong guildies. Try it sometime, maybe you wont have to pug so much if you actually starting talking.

3. You do need to communication. Lords of Dread Among Us phase disagrees with you. If you are a healer, and you're not in comms, you may get called for an external on a tank. Or to brez somebody if you have a brez class. There are so many variables, it just makes sense to be available. It cannot be quickly posted in chat if you need a barkskin in less than 2 seconds. This ignorance is a true sign that you think your shit doesn't stink.

So, so many people in pugs don't seem to grasp the need to communication in an MMO. They really don't belong here, go play Diablo.

[VinceVega]

I would never invite anyone who doesn't want to join disc. It is needed in most circumstances of groupcontent.
Arena without Disc? Huge disadvantage
Mythic+ without disc? Same. On the spot calls are very important here
Raid wihtout disc? Possible if it is completly on farm without a doubt. Otherwise you are better of going with on player less as the person won't know what happens half of the time and nearly ALWAYS won't have timers and fail any movements and mechanics.

Also i won't understand it ever. You don't loose anything by joining a discord server. You can leave it with literally 2!!! clicks. And it comes of a childish.

"but i am an introvert"

If you are that much of an introvert that you are unable to join a disc where you are not even required to talk unless something drastic happens and you can mostly just listen... well i am sorry but that is not "just an introvert" you have deeper issues.

[FiveDkp]

No voice and just kicking underperformers is a much better solution.

There are pretty much no fights that 'require' voice (now more than ever with how ridiculous weak auras have gotten), and any that would for whatever reason are just bad by design.
Just about every player I've come across that prefers or 'needs' discord tends to be subpar, and the conversation either during or outside of the pull is useless or just flat annoying.

The most challenging content I've done all expansion was pugging Week 1 aotc Denathrius (~190 ilvl and only 2nd row of conduits unlocked). Didn't need voice, and there where less than a 100 'guilds' that downed it the first week.


Voice isn't going to help Timmy do more damage by not messing up his rotation or stopping him from moving at inopportune times, or have him preemptively prepared for x mechanic or where to go next.


pug groups only wipe because they have people actively looking to get carried and are filled with gray/green/blue parse Andy's that are simply oblivious and don't know any better.


This type of thread is in the same tier as the M+ timer removal ones. Just people that are incapable of coming to terms with their own or others' ability level.

Said like a person who has never raid lead ever and probably what the OP is describing.

[garicasha]

It definitely could be, getting AotC in week 1 is impressive, but you can tell from the tone of the story that there’s an expectation that “I was able to play at a certain level and therefore everyone else should be able to as well.”

Blue parses are also literally the definition of average and IMO the definition of people pulling their weight, but there’s an implication that “everyone” should be in the top 75th percentile.

Denathrius was not a trivial fight and the number of hours it took to get him isn’t something everyone has available.

And the people that are so good that AotC is easy got good by playing a lot in previous tiers. It’s not like the players that are good at the game never wiped; it’s because they’ve wiped tens of thousands of times.

[Twdft]

I could finally shut down vent if I could run 2 discords and have a different push to talk on each one, on the same computer. Is that possible?

Just use any browser, you don't even need to log into your account. <charactername-realm> as a throwaway nickname is great. You can have another push-to-talk button in browser

[dragonflight10]

So a few things:

1. Those of us who don't want to join Discords are not "scared to talk to other people." It's more that the lion's share of comms on Discord are socializing / not relevant raid comms, and why should we want to listen to that when we're never going to interact ever again?

2. Yes, co-op games like this, do require communication. That does not mean voice communication. Which leads into the third ....

3. As players have engaged in raid content over the years, more and more people are realizing that you don't actually need to communicate over voice to handle mechanics, especially in WoW with so many add-ons available. The only essential raid-related communication that exists is: position and role assignments (including healing CD order, interrupt rotations etc). All of this can be quickly posted in chat, or loaded up in something like Angry Assignments.

So, so many people in this thread don't seem to grasp the difference between -want- and -need-. You may want people in Discord, but you do not need people in Discord, and that's because this game's mechanics, even at a mythic raiding level, do not require it, unless you're in the world first race. But even then the Weak Auras are doing most of the raid leading.

As for your 3rd point, What if mid fight something happened or someone dies and the raid leader need to change X thing ? voice would be x10 better than typing in these situations.

[Greyvax]

I join the discord for whichever raid group i'm in, and immediately deafen myself until the encounter is about to begin (for callouts).

[dragonflight10]

So much bullshit in this post.

1. Part of WoW is playing with other people, talking to them, human beings are known for making small talk during downtime. If you actually socialized with humans, you'd know this and you're either comfortable with it, or you're not. Get over yourself. Secondly, I met some great people in pugs, people that eventually became lifelong guildies. Try it sometime, maybe you wont have to pug so much if you actually starting talking.

3. You do need to communication. Lords of Dread Among Us phase disagrees with you. If you are a healer, and you're not in comms, you may get called for an external on a tank. Or to brez somebody if you have a brez class. There are so many variables, it just makes sense to be available. It cannot be quickly posted in chat if you need a barkskin in less than 2 seconds. This ignorance is a true sign that you think your shit doesn't stink.

So, so many people in pugs don't seem to grasp the need to communication in an MMO. They really don't belong here, go play Diablo.

Man the guy you quoted is so delusional, he keeps mentions that WA is leading
sounds like he raided 2 expansions ago and got carried hard