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  1. #201
    Brewmaster Tiev's Avatar
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    I don't think the Dungeon Finder tool is necessarily a problem. I think cross-realm LFD is what causes the issue where you play with random people you will most likely never see again. It completely removes the social aspect because you have no incentive to be social with someone you don't know and will likely not get to know ever.

    Kinda like stepping into an elevator. If the elevator is in a building you've never been to and/or isn't going to be visiting often, you'll stand on your corner, waiting for your floor and then step out and never look back.

    Now, if that same elevator is in the company you work for, every now and then you'll see someone going to the same floor, or someone you work with, or someone you've seen before at the building's coffee shop and you might start up a conversation.


    That's the difference between cross-realm and same-realm LFD

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    And those players leave in two weeks. That's not who classic is designed for.
    What are we talking about here when using the word "classic"? Theres already a big difference between classic(Vanilla) & WotLK in many regards.

    Should it have flying? If yes, why? Classic didnt have it. Or are we counting BC into the word "classic" ?
    Should it have dual spec? Why? "Classic" didnt have it.
    Should it have achivs? "classic" didnt have it.

    Thats just a couple of examples, and theres many more to pick from when comparing WotLK to classic(Vanilla) or even BC.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    You are saying that advocating for a tool which makes it easier to group with other players means I don't want to engage or interact with those players. The logic of that argument is mysterious to say the least...
    No, the logic is pretty obvious : if you automate grouping, you remove the social aspect of grouping. That's pretty much self-obvious.
    I'll tell you what the reality is: Spamming chat channels begging for groups sucks balls.
    I'll tell you an even bigger reality : automated grouping sucks even more. It led to a massive nosedive in the community. It was called before, it was noticed after, and it's only making a comeback because of lazyness, which was the reason it was born to begin with.
    Even Blizzard recognized that it damaged the social network after the fact.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    No, the logic is pretty obvious : if you automate grouping, you remove the social aspect of grouping. That's pretty much self-obvious.

    I'll tell you an even bigger reality : automated grouping sucks even more. It led to a massive nosedive in the community. It was called before, it was noticed after, and it's only making a comeback because of lazyness, which was the reason it was born to begin with.
    Even Blizzard recognized that it damaged the social network after the fact.
    All this is true, but it rests on one assumption: that "community" (as used here) is not only inherently good, but that it's also better than convenience.

    And I'd say that's far from "self-obvious".

  5. #205
    If people just remember that you can take literally any class, with any shite gear into the HC dungeons in WotLK and clear them with ease, most people wont have a problem finding groups without RDF.

    Then again, im sure theres going to be meta & min/max here to. Even though most of the HCs are piss easy.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    All this is true, but it rests on one assumption: that "community" (as used here) is not only inherently good, but that it's also better than convenience.

    And I'd say that's far from "self-obvious".
    Well, it's a MMO. Playing with people is the whole point. If you automate grouping and remove the need to communicate, then you're just left with a solo game with subscription and bad AI.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    No, the logic is pretty obvious : if you automate grouping, you remove the social aspect of grouping. That's pretty much self-obvious.

    I'll tell you an even bigger reality : automated grouping sucks even more. It led to a massive nosedive in the community. It was called before, it was noticed after, and it's only making a comeback because of lazyness, which was the reason it was born to begin with.
    Even Blizzard recognized that it damaged the social network after the fact.
    What is social about spamming "hunter LFG HC FoS" in chat? Is that the community experience you are defending here, having to spam that until you get a reply? As I said earlier, the 'community aspect' of forming manual groups is overblown.

  8. #208
    Brewmaster Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiev View Post
    I don't think the Dungeon Finder tool is necessarily a problem. I think cross-realm LFD is what causes the issue where you play with random people you will most likely never see again. It completely removes the social aspect because you have no incentive to be social with someone you don't know and will likely not get to know ever.
    Right, it's not that LFG itself is wrong, but design behind one, which moved at wrong direction.

    If in fact, then of course search was in WotLK, this "scamp" already knew how to form cross-realm groups, and that was bad, but it didn’t teleport anyone anywhere, which is good... I see here a little different problem, they don't have that "old one" seach, and new one is too different (has to be cut at least in half of all, that belong to it).

    ...but since I don't play either Classic or BC Classic and I don't think I'll play WotLK Classic (well, I don't like their layers, they "nervous" me, but they probably won’t change their decision regarding it), I guess I don't have right to vote for anything.

    As for destruction/politeness of community, this is separate theme, and it's quite clear that LFG-tool alone is something insufficient for its destruction, and here we should first of all talk about organization of game world in general and servers in particular. But, as I already said, we can talk about last a lot and for a long time and preferably in another topic, this one is too narrow.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2022-05-10 at 11:19 AM.
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  9. #209
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlefoote View Post
    Please explain how the dungeon finder and tokens ruined your personal experience at all. You don’t have to use either service to causally play the game.
    for LFG: simple, no one gives a f8ck anymore about anyone, u are no longer a human player, but a random npc to do dungeon and done, if they tomorrow morning give actual ai companion half of ppl won't notice because how souless dungeon runs are now
    for token: literally blizz own employees (I think was vice manager of wow or something) was selling boosts in his twitch stream, again now u are expected to be already high geared ready to do anything, by buying boosts from blizz higher ups using tokens

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Do you even think before you speak? Because I seriously doubt you do and its something you should start doing...
    how exactly is ur answer contributing anything, if it isn't just pure insult?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    lol best math ever
    3.3 was like 11 months or sth like that
    while every patches together where like 12-13 months or so

    so yeah 3.3 was around 50% of wotlk
    and u played entire 3.3? most ppl didn't
    for me i did but because mid it a lot of rl friends decided to play wow and i had to guild manage everything, if they didn't decide to play i'd mostly stopped after done icc and some pvp
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Well, it's a MMO. Playing with people is the whole point. If you automate grouping and remove the need to communicate, then you're just left with a solo game with subscription and bad AI.
    im leveling a warlock in classic BC right now. From the dungeons i've done, its been toggling myself on the tool+spam chats. After the runs, everyone goes each on theyre own.

    But - out in the world? I group up all the time with people and stay in party with them for a long time. Often it starts with helping out or clear 1 quest, before you know it we have done lots of quests throughout a zone. We do quests we both have, we help eachother with quests only one have etc.

    I think the world, especially classic EK/K, and how its buildt up does a much greater job in bringing people together than dungeons do. And I think we forget that.

  11. #211
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnmen01 View Post
    You, and this kind of attitude is exactly what's wrong with WoW. The "I don't like it, it should be removed from the game" crowd is the problem. Same goes for the "I hate flying crowd".
    how exactly is something 100% personal related to something 100% social!?
    if u walk or fly in-game u using ur own toon, u not using anyone else, heck ppl can and do fly around u while u aren't while lvling for example
    on other hand, to go a dungeon u actually need other ppl, u can't do that solo, so LFG effecting how u do dungeon is something out of UR control
    easy example back in TBC some hcs required flying to go to stone, since it costed a lot many ppl (specially alts) didn't have flying but as long just 2 in ur team have it u can do the dungeon np

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiev View Post
    I don't think the Dungeon Finder tool is necessarily a problem. I think cross-realm LFD is what causes the issue where you play with random people you will most likely never see again. It completely removes the social aspect because you have no incentive to be social with someone you don't know and will likely not get to know ever.
    agree, u expressed it better than me
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    What are we talking about here when using the word "classic"? Theres already a big difference between classic(Vanilla) & WotLK in many regards.

    Should it have flying? If yes, why? Classic didnt have it. Or are we counting BC into the word "classic" ?
    Should it have dual spec? Why? "Classic" didnt have it.
    Should it have achivs? "classic" didnt have it.

    Thats just a couple of examples, and theres many more to pick from when comparing WotLK to classic(Vanilla) or even BC.
    This isn't a museum. They threw that idea out a long time ago. This is "WoW for people who want an old school MMO".

  13. #213
    [QUOTE=gunnmen01;53759461]
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    No, I still mental beat my stupid a88 for how 'happy' i was for LFG, and then see myself how it destroyed wow social
    No, if anything i wish it to be REMOVED from retail, i won't sign for random dungeon at 2am but screw it i want the M part of MMO back and remove LFG will help a LOT

    I'm old player. i know that even as tank once u cross the crowded hours u can't do ur daily hc, but the price is too high, i also recall ppl actually caring and talking to each others, something that lfg destroyed then came token to bury it
    I want both LFG and token to be removed from wow and never return, want to do ur hc? log 8 pm not 3 am.

    You, and this kind of attitude is exactly what's wrong with WoW. The "I don't like it, it should be removed from the game" crowd is the problem. Same goes for the "I hate flying crowd".
    Exactly this

    this crowd is very vocal, these forums are filled with them
    They have this unreasonable fantasy that they want blizz to cater to.

    I guarantee you most of them have severe mental health disorders, because no normal person will ask constantly for stuff on a forum for a video game.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Good example of a game with a RDF.. like.. from start to finish from the whole thing too. So, we can conclude it isn't the issue then.
    What is an RDF?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royru View Post
    Wait a minute, so you think the fact that it takes so long to make a group this makes it better? So when someone leaves in your group, you admit that it is kills a ton of your time in game. Wouldn’t it be better to, you know, have that replacement instantaneously with the dungeon finder? Lol.

    I’m legit scratching my head at this logic.
    I didn't say it is better. In fact, I specifically said it doesn't always work and has other side effects. I'm describing the goal of the design principle.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    This isn't a museum. They threw that idea out a long time ago. This is "WoW for people who want an old school MMO".
    What idea? If WotLK truly is for the old school mmo crowd, then dont have dual spec there. Or several other QoL features.

    Also, again, those that want to play WotLK doesnt automatically want to play classic or bc. I bet theres lots of ppl out there who have waited for wotLK and couldnt give a rats ass about classic or bc.

  16. #216
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    What idea? If WotLK truly is for the old school mmo crowd, then dont have dual spec there. Or several other QoL features.
    they don't have dual spec at launch
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    they don't have dual spec at launch
    Excuse me, what?

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    they don't have dual spec at launch
    But it wil be a feature during WotLK? Guess i've missed that.

    They will have dual spec, but more restrictive. Whatever that means. lol

  19. #219
    LFD used to be known as the sit in Stormwind/Orgrimmar all day and queue for dungeons MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RP GAME

  20. #220
    Please gief Dungeon Finder , ty BB ! U can still make your LFG groups even with dungeon finder and reserve all your stuff . I dunno what the fuss is about. If u dont like Dungeon Finder just don't que on it and make your group on LFG or World or whatever to reserver stuff.

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