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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I agree that LFG was in for about half of wrath's entire lifespan. Actual days on an actual real-life calendar. Who gives a shit about patch numbers when they were so sporadically and arbitrarily released?

    Taking out LFG of wotlk classis is blizzard catering to the worst kind of neckbeards...

    #nochangesuntiliwantachange
    Yeah, the very neckbeards that that helped make Classic exist in the first place. :-/

    I'm mostly ambivalent on the issue. I would use the LFD if it existed. It's a nice convenience tool. But I'm also not butthurt that Blizzard has chosen a hard line of delineation between retail and Classic. This would have happened at some point with some other feature regardless, I'm glad they're tackling it head on with what will likely be the most popular version of Classic to date.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Yeah, the very neckbeards that that helped make Classic exist in the first place. :-/
    Not true? The people I speak of were the ones causing chaos for months about #nochanges on the stupidest little thing, which has led us to this very decision. Notice how I said 'worst kind' indicating that not all neckbeards are like this? Those damned little reading nuances...Hell I'd call myself a neckbeard if I could stand hair on my neck...

    As to the rest of your point....honestly, you are assuming they are going to continue down the line of expacs for classic, and I'm not so sure I see them doing that. "old Azeroth" vs "new Azeroth" is the line I see them drawing you were mentioning, by not continuing to 'cata classic'.

    But Im not convinced they won't either really...
    Last edited by matheney2k; 2022-06-21 at 08:09 PM.

  3. #423
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    I mean I was but I’m not really sure what that has to do with what I said at all?

    Dude said he hated people waiting sitting in cities waiting for ques but at the same time wants people to…. Go to cities to que.

    That’s what pvpers did back then. We just sat in the storm wind castle and waited for our que to pop. You might have enough time to get to the auction house to check on something before it popped but that’s about as far as you got.


    Were…. You not around back then? Because that’s what it was like
    No I said I hated it.

    And no, we didn't have BG masters in the cities until later, we had to queue by the entrances.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Not true? The people I speak of were the ones causing chaos for months about #nochanges on the stupidest little thing, which has led us to this very decision. Notice how I said 'worst kind' indicating that not all neckbeards are like this? Those damned little reading nuances...Hell I'd call myself a neckbeard if I could stand hair on my neck...

    As to the rest of your point....honestly, you are assuming they are going to continue down the line of expacs for classic, and I'm not so sure I see them doing that. "old Azeroth" vs "new Azeroth" is the line I see them drawing you were mentioning, by not continuing to 'cata classic'.

    But Im not convinced they won't either really...
    It's definitely peak MMO champ when people are so insane they are blaming #nochanges for.... changes.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Not true? The people I speak of were the ones causing chaos for months about #nochanges on the stupidest little thing, which has led us to this very decision. Notice how I said 'worst kind' indicating that not all neckbeards are like this? Those damned little reading nuances...Hell I'd call myself a neckbeard if I could stand hair on my neck...
    It's hard to pick up nuance when you're using the term neckneard with a certain amount of reverence. I get what you're saying but I personally try not to look at it from the framework of there being good and bad voices within the community. Labeling like this just causes further fragmentation of the playerbase which will hurt the game in the long run.

    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    As to the rest of your point....honestly, you are assuming they are going to continue down the line of expacs for classic, and I'm not so sure I see them doing that. "old Azeroth" vs "new Azeroth" is the line I see them drawing you were mentioning, by not continuing to 'cata classic'.

    But Im not convinced they won't either really...
    I've said in other threads that I think the future will largely depend on how the community speaks up about things like this. I know Cata isn't popular for die hards on this forum but I don't know if I see Blizzard hard stopping with WotLK. The devs have mentioned more direct polling of the active playerbase and I think questions like this would be the perfect test bed. The division the LFD's exclusion has caused should be enough evidence that there is also an audience of Classic players who are willing to let the game have some of the controversial features others consider dealbreakers. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard spun off WotLK into its own eternal SoM while still allowing the game to continue progression through Cata and beyond on a separate cluster.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2022-06-21 at 09:02 PM.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by vian View Post
    No I said I hated it.

    And no, we didn't have BG masters in the cities until later, we had to queue by the entrances.
    “Until later”

    Oh so you’re either one of those people who like to pretend you played classic and like to reminisce about all these “super classic” features in wow or you’re really don’t remember what actually happened at all.

    Battlemasters were added after not even a month after wsg and AV were added. Wsg were added in June 2005 and masters were added in July 2005. Arathi Basin wasn’t even a battleground yet before battlemasters were introduced. One month…. One single month….

    Stop with your nonsense.
    Last edited by Cayde69; 2022-06-21 at 09:03 PM.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    It's hard to pick up nuance when you're using the term neckneard with a certain amount of reverence. I get what you're saying but I personally try not to look at it from the framework of there being good and bad voices within the community. Labeling like this just causes further fragmentation of the playerbase which will hurt the game in the long run.



    I've said in other threads that I think the future will largely depend on how the community speaks up about things like this. I know Cata isn't popular for die hards on this forum but I don't know if I see Blizzard hard stopping with WotLK. The devs have mentioned more direct polling of the active playerbase and I think questions like this would be the perfect test bed. The division the LFD's exclusion has caused should be enough evidence that there is also an audience of Classic players who are willing to let the game have some of the controversial features others consider dealbreakers. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard spun off WotLK into its own eternal SoM while still allowing the game to continue progression through Cata and beyond on a separate cluster.
    You're overthinking it. The target audience for classic (all versions) is not people who want to relive their glory days. The target audience is people who like old school MMOs and dislike the retail model. That's why they aren't adding LFD. The vast majority of the people who want LFD aren't playing classic. They will play Wrath for two weeks and leave, because the truth is that if you don't like classic vanilla or classic tbc, you won't like classic wrath. There is an audience for classic and it simply is not people who want LFD. It's people who dislike things like LFD.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You're overthinking it. The target audience for classic (all versions) is not people who want to relive their glory days. The target audience is people who like old school MMOs and dislike the retail model. That's why they aren't adding LFD. The vast majority of the people who want LFD aren't playing classic. They will play Wrath for two weeks and leave, because the truth is that if you don't like classic vanilla or classic tbc, you won't like classic wrath. There is an audience for classic and it simply is not people who want LFD. It's people who dislike things like LFD.
    That's a bit more generalized than I'm comfortable agreeing with. This sounds like a slightly more wordy No True Scotsman fallacy. (No "real" Classic fan wants the LFD.) This game's audience has always been extremely difficult to compartmentalize and I see features which can potentially allow different subsections of the same audience to find a home to be generally in the developers' best interest. There's a line to be drawn, for sure, but I don't think that line is nearly as rigid as many on this forum often make it sound.

  9. #429
    All they need to do in implement it like it was on Retail and release LFG tool with TOGC.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    That's a bit more generalized than I'm comfortable agreeing with. This sounds like a slightly more wordy No True Scotsman fallacy. (No "real" Classic fan wants the LFD.) This game's audience has always been extremely difficult to compartmentalize and I see features which can potentially allow different subsections of the same audience to find a home to be generally in the developers' best interest. There's a line to be drawn, for sure, but it's ultimately up to Blizzard to gauge the demands of the playerbase.
    Blizzard has all but directly stated that this is the case. This isn't about who is a "real" fan and such. There are certainly people who are waiting for Wrath and excited and looking forward to it but weren't interested in the previous iterations of Classic. I'm not claiming those people don't exist or don't count in any way. What I am saying is that those people simply aren't the target audience for Classic. They aren't the type of people are going to stick around and pay the bills. They will play for a month and return to retail, just like the people that said the same about waiting for TBC. They came in, got their nostalgia fix, and then returned to retail. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm glad those people will have a good time. The problem is those people are then demanding Classic be designed to their tastes, rather than the tastes of the people who are going to be playing Wrath classic for its entire run, and just like with TBC that is going to be the audience that was established in Classic vanilla: The old school MMO fans.

    There is a significant "tell" here that proves my case. The people who want LFD aren't demanding it be in the ICC patch. They are demanding it be in launch. That's how you know that they simply are not the type of people who are going to be interested in the long term. It's no different than the people who said "I'd play classic TBC if it had LFD". No, they wouldn't. They would play it for two weeks and leave, because the broad model of classic is so antithetical to that mindset that simply adding LFD is not going to change the game enough to match what they would need to stick around. The truth is they want retail with a Wrath skin, and at the end of the day a few changes here and there aren't going to do that. They are going to have a fun couple of weeks of nostalgia and head back to the game that is made for them: retail.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It's definitely peak MMO champ when people are so insane they are blaming #nochanges for.... changes.
    If you can't follow the line of logic, that's a you thing then..

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    If you can't follow the line of logic, that's a you thing then..
    The logic of "Because of the #nochanges crowd, they are changing Wrath!" is not logic in the traditional sense. Childish tantrum whining is a more appropriate descriptor.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The logic of "Because of the #nochanges crowd, they are changing Wrath!" is not logic in the traditional sense. Childish tantrum whining is a more appropriate descriptor.
    Childish tantrum whining is who the "#nochanges crowd" have been mostly lol. The no changes crowd hate all things retail (hence the spark of the movement) and now have turned against their own logic in order to take out a feature of a classic expansion because it is seen as a 'dirty retail feature'.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The logic of "Because of the #nochanges crowd, they are changing Wrath!" is not logic in the traditional sense. Childish tantrum whining is a more appropriate descriptor.
    I think your disconnect here is that you’re reading the #nochanges at face value because it has no change in the name.

    The no changes crowd evolved a very long time ago to be this “super hardcore old school” crowd. The no changes crowd complained about battlegrounds being crossrealm…. When that’s literally what they turned into after 1.12.

    So now in a very similar fashion the no changes crowd is advocating for something very similar where a feature that was a part of the expansion, they want it removed forever in the name of “authenticity”

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Childish tantrum whining is who the "#nochanges crowd" have been mostly lol. The no changes crowd hate all things retail (hence the spark of the movement) and now have turned against their own logic in order to take out a feature of a classic expansion because it is seen as a 'dirty retail feature'.
    Or it's two different groups of people asking for different things.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    I think your disconnect here is that you’re reading the #nochanges at face value because it has no change in the name.

    The no changes crowd evolved a very long time ago to be this “super hardcore old school” crowd. The no changes crowd complained about battlegrounds being crossrealm…. When that’s literally what they turned into after 1.12.

    So now in a very similar fashion the no changes crowd is advocating for something very similar where a feature that was a part of the expansion, they want it removed forever in the name of “authenticity”
    Have you considered that what you've done is lump a lot of different people with lots of different opinions into one group and assigned to all of them the opinions of the dumbest amongst them?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Or it's two different groups of people asking for different things.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Have you considered that what you've done is lump a lot of different people with lots of different opinions into one group and assigned to all of them the opinions of the dumbest amongst them?
    No, because what I said is true. I’ve had discussions with a ton of people who call themselves the no changes crowd who have advocated for no changes who now push for these removal of systems. There are multiple people in here trying to explain this to you. Did you ever consider that maybe you’re just in the wrong and don’t know what that crowd means?

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Or it's two different groups of people asking for different things.
    Could be. Or it could be the same. :P

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    No, because what I said is true. I’ve had discussions with a ton of people who call themselves the no changes crowd who have advocated for no changes who now push for these removal of systems. There are multiple people in here trying to explain this to you. Did you ever consider that maybe you’re just in the wrong and don’t know what that crowd means?
    I know lots of #nochanges people who want LFD in the ICC patch. So, I’m right.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I know lots of #nochanges people who want LFD in the ICC patch. So, I’m right.
    That’s… not how this works lol. Like not even a little bit.
    Last edited by Cayde69; 2022-06-21 at 11:52 PM.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    That’s… not how this works lol. Like not even a little bit.
    That’s exactly how it works. You are lumping people together.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

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