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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Celarent View Post
    If you're a healer or tank, you can pull DPS in quickly, then fit the last player in with the leverage of LF1M. Whole group will be set in 90 seconds if you start with healer and tank. If you're DPS, you don't flail about with LFG. You keep your eye on the bulletin board and whisper when something pops up. Wrath won't have TBC's class stigma, either.
    Yeah, I've seen enough groups with tanks and 3 DPS or healers and 3 DPS sit around for an hour to know that's very often complete bullshit. I've also been whispered on DPS by groups struggling to find a 2nd/3rd DPS so much they resort to begging people halfway across the continent enough to know that even if you were leveling with a tank and healer 90 seconds is often not even remotely close.

    People are also so focused on Wrath they haven't even considered the secondary impact, which is that Wrath leveling and classes are so much smoother than every dungeon besides WC/VS/Stocks and SM became a complete ghost town. LFD saved dungeons because they'd become near un-runable.

    This whole thing is stupid as hell. It's A-okay for dozens of mages to be spam running instances, AoE power-leveling players and spamming global channels to hell, it's a struggle to find any sort of non turbo-reserved run, and gDKP dominates the PuG scene so much that all gear is basically just bought with gold... but LFD is what's going to ruin the community of Wrath classic. What a fucking joke.

  2. #382
    I remember when it came out in Wrath and people loved it. never heard nobody complain about it. I think people started to hate it in Cata. First dungeons were hard and then RF came out. I remember it was impossible ot pug some heroic dungeons in Cata because they were so hard. Wrath you just hit your AoE button. Much easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azsune View Post
    They did add the teleport to dungeon in WotLK. Not sure if it was at the start of WotLK but I think it was. I know people are theorising without the tool questing will probably be faster as there was an EXP bonus for using it over entering on your own.

    A lot of people see it as the start of reduced required social interaction. When I compare my experience from Retail to Classic my guild is a lot closer and do more together than my Retail guild ever did. Another thing is people don't ditch groups as fast when something goes wrong, in retail a tank may just drop the group and instantly find a new dungeon group teleported there if he feels it is to slow.

    I kind of want it and don't want it. Leveling becomes much more enjoyable when you teleport to dungeons and find groups while questing. But it feels like a step in reduced social interaction that we have in Retail.
    The teleport wasn't in at the start. I think it was added when ICC came out or shortly before.

  3. #383
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    it's a struggle to find any sort of non turbo-reserved run.
    Likely one of the reasons people are against RDF, you can't reserve loot in them.
    Ex-Mod. Technically retired, they just won't let me quit.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    People are also so focused on Wrath they haven't even considered the secondary impact, which is that Wrath leveling and classes are so much smoother than every dungeon besides WC/VS/Stocks and SM became a complete ghost town. LFD saved dungeons because they'd become near un-runable.
    We're talking about two things, looks like. I was responding to Azjol-Nerub and other Northrend 5-mans.

    And I do remember pre-LFD Old World. I'm just not sure the problem is the difficulty of assembling groups, or that in a Classic game two expansions removed, players are expected to spend the original amount of time leveling to enter Northrend.

    Probably too late for Blizzard to mastermind a system that allows players to level multiple characters 10x faster without bot issues.

    But at the same time, the travails of somebody's 8th toon on the long road to 68 in a venue where *everyone* is there to play 3.0 does not seem like a great urgency.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    The downtrend was because they released an absolutely awful expansion in Cataclysm, where most of the development time was spent on levelling content for people's alts (if they chose to play them)

    LFD is a convenient scapegoat for coming out at the same time, you know what also came out at the same time as the subs declining? Transmogrification, yet no one seems to blame that for the game's decline.

    Not relying on your server was a good thing, some servers were small to near dead, but people didn't want to leave their dwindling communities for a variety of reasons, but that should never be cause for locking them out of the game's content because they are unable to get groups.

    Also WoW's social experience is a total myth, you only need to look at TBC classic's LFG channels to see how little social interaction there is in spamming "LF Tank/Healer MGT H" followed by a 15-20 minute dungeon run where the most anyone says is "hi" at the start and "thanks, cya" at the end.


    The reason random heroic won't be in at the start of Wrath is to stop people badge farming and getting heroic epics without lockout restrictions (which random dungeon finder bypassed) and being overgeared day one. This social interaction argument is a successful coverup to avoiding the early unwanted implications of the heroic dungeon finder system. Watch it get added later, and it won't be because Blizzard suddenly stopped caring about "social interaction".
    There was a multitude of reasons, but most people have tracked its start at 3.3 ---- things like the justice badges, wintergrasp imbalances, LFG were all contributing factors to people wanting to leave the game. Cataclysm didn't help and continued the downward path.

    But to claim something like transmogrification, which has zero impact on social interaction (swapping the visuals of your gear for other visuals) would have a similar impact to something like LFG, which directly impacts social interaction (ability to find a group) is a straw man argument. Apples to Oranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Kind of a silly reason. As many pointed out here finder didn't pop into wotlk until the very end. So most of this "experiment" would be taking place during a period when the finder wasn't a thing. Also it would mean they would need several expansions worth of data to actually understand it which would mean they would need to green light to probably MOP at the very least for it to be meaningful in anyway.

    Naw... it's pretty obvious they just pulled something out of thier hat to announce for some sort of 50/50 ball which is fine for them to do.. but let's not window dress this up as some big relive the past grand experiment to change the world in a new future. It's just a shot in the dark. Plan an simple. One that some will love, some will hate, and one most people probably won't be to bothered with whichever way it lands.

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    I actually wouldn't mind finder not being in for max level. Where I liked it was when leveling characters and being able to que up for specific 5 man's while leveling to knock out a rack of quests. Or doing some randoms while leveling. I do kind of fear without the finder pretty much all the old instances are just totally dead content. Just easier to skip while out in the world to level or you never even end up crossing into them. Just a real shame all that past stuff will be, mostly, a ghost town when it could be used and see still.

    I get the downsides to it at max level being a thing that can kill the late game in the current expansion. To where everyone is just sitting in Dal qued up for example. But early game I don't see the damage. It's not like a large enough army of alts and new people will be smashing though the classic world to make it some huge living thing either way.
    This is just straight up false, because 3.3 introduced 3 new heroic 5 man dungeons. On top of the length of duration the end of WotLK had, it had plenty of time to impact players.

    3.3 came out Dec 8th
    3.3.5 came out Jun 22nd
    Cataclysm came out Dec 7th

    So you are gonna argue that for a whole year, this had no impact on the community? I can't even.

    Not only was there new 5 man content at the start, it would have been used for alts to level up with as well. And lasted an entire year before Cataclysm came out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  6. #386
    Happened all the time back in 2006-2008. Before the game and community changed

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by kirzan View Post
    They just hate that with RDF, average Joes now have the power to get epics and actually progress without sucking off the people who have a deathgrip on the server. The google spreadsheet owners with editing access. RDF would take that away and it terrifies them.
    Are you high? We are talking about a dungeon finder rooooooooooooofl.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    Best thing added in the game was the LFG/LFR tool. Spamming in chat and trying to build a team was a stupid thing and was only fun in the early days of wow.
    No it wasn’t. Back then we didn’t just have a /4 channel for actually finding group mates. We even maintained custom channels - and invited there people that proven to be good mates - as alternative to /4. And it worked perfectly.

    You know, the interaction between actual people. Something that MMO implies.

  9. #389
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    I disliked queuing for BGs from everywhere, I disliked cross-realm BGs and I disliked Dungeon finder.

    The server I used to play on was full, and everyone knew everyone. With all those implementations they gutted that feeling of belonging to something, and made it in to a 3D rendition of a server browser, with everyone just sitting in cities, waiting for a queue to pop.

    At least that's my take on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    There was a multitude of reasons, but most people have tracked its start at 3.3 ---- things like the justice badges, wintergrasp imbalances, LFG were all contributing factors to people wanting to leave the game. Cataclysm didn't help and continued the downward path.

    But to claim something like transmogrification, which has zero impact on social interaction (swapping the visuals of your gear for other visuals) would have a similar impact to something like LFG, which directly impacts social interaction (ability to find a group) is a straw man argument. Apples to Oranges.

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    This is just straight up false, because 3.3 introduced 3 new heroic 5 man dungeons. On top of the length of duration the end of WotLK had, it had plenty of time to impact players.

    3.3 came out Dec 8th
    3.3.5 came out Jun 22nd
    Cataclysm came out Dec 7th

    So you are gonna argue that for a whole year, this had no impact on the community? I can't even.

    Not only was there new 5 man content at the start, it would have been used for alts to level up with as well. And lasted an entire year before Cataclysm came out.
    You know you got a soft ball when you use time instead of actual patch cycles to judge when something came out in an expansion. Hell.. some expansions had a year or two of nothing at the end.

    LOL.. what a joke

  11. #391
    Honestly I just want the convenience of being able to press a button, and knowing a dungeon will result from it eventually. I don't mind if it's restricted to the same server only. Not having to spam looking for <role> for a leveling dungeon for 30 minutes, having 2 people you had just leave, then nothing comes of it is so demoralizing.

    A nice feature they could add would be the option to blacklist up to 2 dungeons, as I do remember getting Oculus just to have like 3/5 group members leave back in the day.

  12. #392
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    There was a multitude of reasons, but most people have tracked its start at 3.3 ---- things like the justice badges, wintergrasp imbalances, LFG were all contributing factors to people wanting to leave the game. Cataclysm didn't help and continued the downward path.
    Subs continued to go upwards up to and including cataclysm's launch. So I don't get where this "decline" is.

    Edit: Infact post the release of 3.3, WoW reached its peak of 12 million subs, which continued until Cata launch. A whole year of LFG resulted in the highest subscription totals this game ever saw. Also who ever had a problem with the badge system, we'd had one since TBC and it was great for catch up gear or bad luck protection if you'd suffered crap drops in raids.

    But to claim something like transmogrification, which has zero impact on social interaction (swapping the visuals of your gear for other visuals) would have a similar impact to something like LFG, which directly impacts social interaction (ability to find a group) is a straw man argument. Apples to Oranges.
    And as we've demonstrated here both in retail and classic, the "social interaction" of pugging 5 mans is an absolute myth. By the time LFD came out people spammed chat, formed a group and would leave without saying two words to each other.
    Last edited by Northern Goblin; 2022-06-21 at 12:42 AM.
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  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by vian View Post
    I disliked queuing for BGs from everywhere, I disliked cross-realm BGs and I disliked Dungeon finder.

    The server I used to play on was full, and everyone knew everyone. With all those implementations they gutted that feeling of belonging to something, and made it in to a 3D rendition of a server browser, with everyone just sitting in cities, waiting for a queue to pop.

    At least that's my take on it.
    I honestly can’t take this very seriously when you say you disliked queing from everywhere. Like…. What did that change exactly? You can go to the bg battle master still if you really wanted to even with a tool that allows you to que anywhere. Like you’re out farming and you hate the fact that you aren’t forced to go into town to que?

    Also that thought and this thought don’t match up

    With all those implementations they gutted that feeling of belonging to something, and made it in to a 3D rendition of a server browser, with everyone just sitting in cities, waiting for a queue to pop.
    So you hate it when people just sit in cities waiting for a que…. But you want people waiting in cities waiting for a que when it comes to battlgrounds? And what do you think people did without LFG when they were wanting a group? They sat in the cities waiting for a whisper for a tank to finally see their spam.

    Your arguments aren’t matching reality

  14. #394
    Been looking forward to LFG in wrath sense I started playing wow classic.. I can still remember queing up as a tank or healer and getting the bonus box. I for one would love it from the start, but would be happy if it came in, in 3.3. I don't understand why people complain about it removing the social aspect of the game.. I hardly talk to people in groups as it is, and I cant remember the last time I or anyone else I've talked to about it made friends with someone and ran stuff with them again later, its gg and your gone.. Coming from someone with 3 accounts and 9 70s. making groups is a pain in the ass, and id rather be farming or questing or doing anything else...

  15. #395
    I don't think group finder is bad, what is bad is that its structure incentivizes a real toxic player group to have prominence, and reduce world population. It also reduces the time spent interacting with other players in a meaningful way.

    Fix by:
    -2x dungeon rewards if you actually go to the instance in the world
    -Limiting groups to the same server

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    About half of Wrath's entire lifespan had LFG in it, it's you who remember the wrong wrath.
    Most of its content didn't had lfd though. Wasn't really great that a single content patch was halve the expansion.

  17. #397
    I'm not sure what kind of meaningful interaction you get from spamming lfg for an hr..

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by warbagel View Post
    I'm not sure what kind of meaningful interaction you get from spamming lfg for an hr..
    No problem. Not everyone should understand why interacting with other people in a MMO is good. You’re one of those who don’t

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    Best thing added in the game was the LFG/LFR tool. Spamming in chat and trying to build a team was a stupid thing and was only fun in the early days of wow.
    Was one of the worst things, aimed to broaden the audience by including people who are generally not used to think. The fact you can’t even spell the LFD right and mixing it with LFG only proves that.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudi View Post
    No problem. Not everyone should understand why interacting with other people in a MMO is good. You’re one of those who don’t

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    Was one of the worst things, aimed to broaden the audience by including people who are generally not used to think. The fact you can’t even spell the LFD right and mixing it with LFG only proves that.
    Your personality only shows why i prefer to use that tool. To avoid speaking to toxic people like you.
    Last edited by Soimu; 2022-06-21 at 08:47 AM.

  20. #400
    Im am engrossed in community building every day using LFG addon to whisper "inv" to random people, not talking to them after that and sitting in Org waiting for summon.
    KEK fucking W.

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