Group Finder for WOTLK is a great tool, why the hate?.

[Cayde69]

I know lots of #nochanges people who want LFD in the ICC patch. So, I’m right.

That’s… not how this works lol. Like not even a little bit.

[NineSpine]

That’s… not how this works lol. Like not even a little bit.

That’s exactly how it works. You are lumping people together.

[Cayde69]

That’s exactly how it works. You are lumping people together.

Yea I am lumping people together who are lumping themselves together. That’s how the world works dude. This is going to blow your mind, but not all nochanges people hold the exact same opinions across the board. Do you understand that?

[NineSpine]

Yea I am lumping people together who are lumping themselves together. That’s how the world works dude. This is going to blow your mind, but not all nochanges people hold the exact same opinions across the board. Do you understand that?

Me: "Not all #nochanges people think the same thing."

You: "OH YEAH WELL NOT ALL #NOCHANGES PEOPLE THINK THE SAME THING!"

Maybe you need a break from the forum if you pick fights by agreeing with people?

[Drusin]

Ya I really don't get why they removed LFD. The heroics were piss easy (Oculus was annoying) and they let me log in, do dailies, get my heroics, then go do something else, whether it's leveling alts, going out, playing different games, doing yard work, etc.

It's honestly a turn off for me to return. I'm OK with convenience as a 30 year old man who has shit to do haha.

Yeah I have no intention of playing Wrath classic without LFD

[anon5123]

That would be Cataclysms world-on-rails-plus-you-like-funny-internet-memes-right quest design.

....WOTLK questing was like this too.

[Drusin]

Yeah without LFD in TBC I can say the world is huge.. because I care about matching people up with items they need and their gold count for gdkps..

Their value is huge to me! I get to know them! We all become friends! The world is so alive because I get to run the same instances! Its amazing game play. Without LDF all this things came true! The game is so amazing.

/s

Yeah it's the same thing I noticed on classic era, I spam chat looking for a group/people, they join, no one talks, we clear the dungeon and go our own ways. Exact same thing as retail LFD except now I have to not do whatever I'm working on to spam chat, great fun /s

[Cayde69]

Me: "Not all #nochanges people think the same thing."

You: "OH YEAH WELL NOT ALL #NOCHANGES PEOPLE THINK THE SAME THING!"

Maybe you need a break from the forum if you pick fights by agreeing with people?

I’m sorry? I had to go back to your conversation to see where this disconnect happened.

What actually happened was, guy blamed the nochanges crowd for pushing these ideas (which they did) you then called him insane for saying this, then after we explained to you how this was true I must have missed you pulling a strawman.

Have you considered that what you've done is lump a lot of different people with lots of different opinions into one group and assigned to all of them the opinions of the dumbest amongst them?

No one said everyone in the nochanges crowd pushed these ideas. We said people in the no changes crowd did. So congrats on making a strawman to argue against that I must have missed.

[NineSpine]

I’m sorry? I had to go back to your conversation to see where this disconnect happened.

What actually happened was, guy blamed the nochanges crowd for pushing these ideas (which they did) you then called him insane for saying this, then after we explained to you how this was true I must have missed you pulling a strawman.



No one said everyone in the nochanges crowd pushed these ideas. We said people in the no changes crowd did. So congrats on making a strawman to argue against that I must have missed.

"...guy blamed the nochanges crowd for pushing these ideas (which they did)..."

"No one said everyone in the nochanges crowd pushed these ideas."

Yeah, where could I have gotten the crazy idea that you were talking about them as a singular crowd?

[Cayde69]

"...guy blamed the nochanges crowd for pushing these ideas (which they did)..."

"No one said everyone in the nochanges crowd pushed these ideas."

Yeah, where could I have gotten the crazy idea that you were talking about them as a singular crowd?

You can call out a crowd without calling out every single specific individual. You say it’s a crazy idea ironically, but it actually unironically is.

[Rayshaun]

Yeah it's the same thing I noticed on classic era, I spam chat looking for a group/people, they join, no one talks, we clear the dungeon and go our own ways. Exact same thing as retail LFD except now I have to not do whatever I'm working on to spam chat, great fun /s

This was 100% my experience. I’m a dad that doesn’t even have time for dad guild raiding, so my time is limited and I barely got through each heroic once before it became too time consuming looking for a group (even as a tank) in TBBC when I came back to check out Shadowlands and then ended up in Classic BC.

I would love to play Wrath Classic as it was my favorite time in WoW (quit halfway through Cata due to career/family commitments), and I do have some time now, and was excited at the idea of LFD being in the game.

I would think there would be a number of people that want to re-live the glory days, but no LFD is a deal breaker for a lot of us I suspect.

[Anastacy]

Blizzard has all but directly stated that this is the case. This isn't about who is a "real" fan and such. There are certainly people who are waiting for Wrath and excited and looking forward to it but weren't interested in the previous iterations of Classic. I'm not claiming those people don't exist or don't count in any way. What I am saying is that those people simply aren't the target audience for Classic. They aren't the type of people are going to stick around and pay the bills. They will play for a month and return to retail, just like the people that said the same about waiting for TBC. They came in, got their nostalgia fix, and then returned to retail. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm glad those people will have a good time. The problem is those people are then demanding Classic be designed to their tastes, rather than the tastes of the people who are going to be playing Wrath classic for its entire run, and just like with TBC that is going to be the audience that was established in Classic vanilla: The old school MMO fans.

There is a significant "tell" here that proves my case. The people who want LFD aren't demanding it be in the ICC patch. They are demanding it be in launch. That's how you know that they simply are not the type of people who are going to be interested in the long term. It's no different than the people who said "I'd play classic TBC if it had LFD". No, they wouldn't. They would play it for two weeks and leave, because the broad model of classic is so antithetical to that mindset that simply adding LFD is not going to change the game enough to match what they would need to stick around. The truth is they want retail with a Wrath skin, and at the end of the day a few changes here and there aren't going to do that. They are going to have a fun couple of weeks of nostalgia and head back to the game that is made for them: retail.

You speak against lumping people together, but...

I've played all of TBC classic, and plan to continue through all of WotLK...

...and I wish they'd have RDF from the beginning. I absolutely hate wading through the countless groups that have "XX item on res" in a 5man fucking dungeon, the general LFG chat spam clogged with political talk and "lol Blizz too woke", and the "booster spam." It'll likely just get worse with achievements and GS-like addons.

So you're kinda lumping people together too. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Maybe their "new" tool will help with these things? Who knows? I still wish there was RDF available.

[Elias1337]

Been looking forward to LFG in wrath sense I started playing wow classic.. I can still remember queing up as a tank or healer and getting the bonus box. I for one would love it from the start, but would be happy if it came in, in 3.3. I don't understand why people complain about it removing the social aspect of the game.. I hardly talk to people in groups as it is, and I cant remember the last time I or anyone else I've talked to about it made friends with someone and ran stuff with them again later, its gg and your gone.. Coming from someone with 3 accounts and 9 70s. making groups is a pain in the ass, and id rather be farming or questing or doing anything else...

Becouse it did reduce social interactions between players. Yes there will always be people like you what just wont say single word becouse you dont actualy want to play mmorpg and other players are just means to your ends but this do no apply for majority of classic audience. It migh shock you but if you are one who do not interact with other players you will have majority of your dungeon experiences where people wont interact becouse you purposply looking for this experience.

I have done tons of dungeons in in my case i had tons of player intearaction what would never happen if LFG would be implemented into the game. Not even mentioning fact how is LFG ruining sense of the world and immersion of being in the world.

[Orby]

I have no issue with the LFG part of the tool, I just hate the teleport to dungeon aspect. I like running to a dungeon and summoning. Can we at least get that. I think helping find a group easier is always better than spamming trade with LFG. Just I enjoy the journey is all.

[Biomega]

I have no issue with the LFG part of the tool, I just hate the teleport to dungeon aspect. I like running to a dungeon and summoning. Can we at least get that. I think helping find a group easier is always better than spamming trade with LFG. Just I enjoy the journey is all.

That's totally fine.

It's just that it's weird when you liking one thing means everyone else who DOESN'T like that thing then has to do it.

I enjoy taking walks. Sometimes I walk to work, even if it's an hour. But that doesn't mean I think cars and busses should be banned and everyone should HAVE to walk to work.

[Elias1337]

That's totally fine.

It's just that it's weird when you liking one thing means everyone else who DOESN'T like that thing then has to do it.

I enjoy taking walks. Sometimes I walk to work, even if it's an hour. But that doesn't mean I think cars and busses should be banned and everyone should HAVE to walk to work.

Its not wierd becouse as in real life majority of people will always pick path of least resitance (most covinient) way to reach their goals. No matter if it is fun or not they will always do what is most efficient. Thats why having LFG in game and expect people what dont like it dont use it will never work. You will end up with everybody using LFG including those who do not like this feature just becouse its way too efficient to pass on it.

There is never choice to no use something if that thing is too covinient and effcient. Its same argument when on retail you have people complaining about not having flying and telling others if they dont want to fly then simply use ground mounts. Nobady will ever make themself purposly less efficient for sake of fun nobady.

Do you know what is outcome of players using covinience even when they dont like it? No it isnt not using feature its straight up quiting game.

[Kralljin]

I enjoy taking walks. Sometimes I walk to work, even if it's an hour. But that doesn't mean I think cars and busses should be banned and everyone should HAVE to walk to work.

Let's stop pretending these two elements can coexist in a fashion where both are viable options in the sense that you don't cripple yourself by enganging one of the two in terms of wait times for finding players.

Like seriously, how many times you saw someone forming organically a group post DF for a heroic?
Maybe at the very launch of an expansion or at the drop of a new patch when people were still after the daily heroic, but that vanished very quickly.

Nevermind that DF in itself stacked the deck massively in its favor with extra emblems and a buff for each random player.

[Biomega]

Let's stop pretending these two elements can coexist in a fashion where both are viable options in the sense that you don't cripple yourself by enganging one of the two in terms of wait times for finding players.

Like seriously, how many times you saw someone forming organically a group post DF for a heroic?
Maybe at the very launch of an expansion or at the drop of a new patch when people were still after the daily heroic, but that vanished very quickly.

Nevermind that DF in itself stacked the deck massively in its favor with extra emblems and a buff for each random player.

That's an argument FOR the existence of DF, though.

DF doesn't preclude you going and forming a group for "manual" dungeons with people who also enjoy this kind of thing. You can still go and do it, exactly the same way.

If you can't find any people who want to do that because DF exists, then that only demonstrates two things: 1. there aren't actually all that many people who actually enjoy manually going to dungeons, so a majority of people actually want DF; and/or 2. manually making dungeon groups isn't actually that fun in and of itself, or people would still do it even with DF existing.

So either you CAN'T find people and so the premise of "making dungeon groups manually is something most people want, and is fun in and of itself" is false (meaning DF should be in); or you CAN find people and DF existing doesn't matter because those people who want manual dungeons can still do them and those who don't like that don't have to which is better than cutting out one option.

And that also means that the outcome of "with DF existing nobody want to make dungeon groups, so let's remove it and force people to do it" just seems to rest on some kinda fucked up reasoning.

[DarkAmbient]

Let's stop pretending these two elements can coexist in a fashion where both are viable options in the sense that you don't cripple yourself by enganging one of the two in terms of wait times for finding players.

Like seriously, how many times you saw someone forming organically a group post DF for a heroic?
Maybe at the very launch of an expansion or at the drop of a new patch when people were still after the daily heroic, but that vanished very quickly.

Nevermind that DF in itself stacked the deck massively in its favor with extra emblems and a buff for each random player.

It's almost like people prefer the dungeon finder...

[Kralljin]

That's an argument FOR the existence of DF, though.

DF doesn't preclude you going and forming a group for "manual" dungeons with people who also enjoy this kind of thing. You can still go and do it, exactly the same way.

It de facto does because doing dungeons is a group activity and you'll struggle to find people organically in a world where DF exists.

If you can't find any people who want to do that because DF exists, then that only demonstrates two things: 1. there aren't actually all that many people who actually enjoy manually going to dungeons, so a majority of people actually want DF; and/or 2. manually making dungeon groups isn't actually that fun in and of itself, or people would still do it even with DF existing.

It's almost like people prefer the dungeon finder...

This is simply a fallacious statement.

Counter example: Do you think Mechanar Heroic was the most popular in TBC (actual TBC) because it was the best designed one or because it awarded the most badges?

Devs even called this the "Mechanar syndrome"
https://twitter.com/ghostcrawler/sta...522049?lang=en

Another example, do you think Warlock is the most popular (raiding) class in TBCC because they're the most fun to play or because it pulls the best numbers?

There's many examples where players clearly favor the most efficient option not because it's the most engaging one but simply because it's the most efficient one, even when that option comes at the detriment of their own experience.

That doesn't mean the less efficient option is the "good" one, but citing the fact that players engage in X (when X is just being the more efficient option) as the "good" one is just false and WoW itself has proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

And i want to reiterate: They literally gave you extra Emblems and a buff for engaging in DF.
If Blizzard had any intent to balance these two options, you'd think they gave the extra rewards to the less efficient one, not the more efficient one.