May you explain me why BFA was considered so bad??

[arkanon]

There was another thread talking about how the catapults wouldn't be able to reach. And someone pointed out shamanism is a thing. Wind magic to propel the stone further, earth magic to lighten the boulder itself up to a point (don't make it too light or it becomes counterproductive). I could totally see the Horde using magitek style siege equipment. I doubt the iron stars were 100% technology, goblins have shaman. I mean look at the guy who made them, channelling a red beam into them to build them.

And remember, this is a game where we get dragons in the mail, can fly, gravity is hardly a thing at all, we can time travel, teleport, carry hundreds of mounts, carry tonnes and tonnes of weapons and armor, etc etc etc..........................or you know, A) its a game and B) - MAGIC!

[Temp name]

The reasons I personally unsubbed in BFA was:
my main felt so much weaker and worse to play than in Legion
The dungeons weren't anything to write home about
I didn't like the first raid
leveling was shit

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And remember, this is a game where we get dragons in the mail, can fly, gravity is hardly a thing at all, we can time travel, teleport, carry hundreds of mounts, carry tonnes and tonnes of weapons and armor, etc etc etc..........................or you know, A) its a game and B) - MAGIC!

"magic" can only go so far before people stop believing in it. It has to make sense in universe.
Most of the things you mentioned are gameplay concessions to lore (with the exception of time travel, which can only be done by bronze dragons in lore, don't think we've seen anyone else do it, and teleportation, which has been shown to be only possible by really talented mages), while the tree being burned was a pivotal plot moment.

Also, it's a fucking magical tree, magic goes both ways

[arkanon]

"magic" can only go so far before people stop believing in it. It has to make sense in universe.
Most of the things you mentioned are gameplay concessions to lore (with the exception of time travel, which can only be done by bronze dragons in lore, don't think we've seen anyone else do it, and teleportation, which has been shown to be only possible by really talented mages), while the tree being burned was a pivotal plot moment.

Also, it's a fucking magical tree, magic goes both ways

So you are happy with all the other lore? Portals that are powered by souls, demons, dragons, etc etc etc, but a living tree burning (something that is absolutely, 100% based in reality, and im STUNNED anyone would question it), THATS where people draw the line. Unreal the level of delusion some people have in this community.

[Mysterymask]

Eh had its ups and downs but some of the downs were pretty damned bad

- Azerite Gear: Yeah it got fixed later but man you get to max level, do some mythic dungeons get a brand new chest UH Oh you can't use it cause you didn't grind enough Azerite better wear your shitty blue until it's good! That felt bad and will always feel bad

-The Split story:. In a way it could of been decent...but the way it was handled just kinda sucked. Alliance went to the first raid with no reason or idea to do it except "Gear" Horde saw Lady Ashvane with no clue who the fuck she is. Did you know the Horde recruited the San'layin? The alliance does horde had no fucking clue.

-Corrputed Gear: Could of been an interesting concept but the drawbacks were basically skill checks and the benefits were HUGE add in the absolute random nature of it...and you had a weirdly unloved system

Islands: yeah the whole advanced AI they spouted didn't happen and was just a largely efficient but boring thing you had to do

[shise]

People get bored because they play too much, then they confuse that with the expansion being bad.

No, that makes 0 sense.

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The reason: all the systems. That and only that, really, but that was reason enough.

I did enjoy BfA, I think most did, in fact. A SUPER content rich expansion... but with so bad systems that playing the game felt bad (from your character´s progression point of view).

[arkanon]

No, that makes 0 sense.

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The reason: all the systems. That and only that, really, but that was reason enough.

I did enjoy BfA, I think most did, in fact. A SUPER content rich expansion... but with so bad systems that playing the game felt bad (from your character´s progression point of view).

The REAL reason its garbage, is myself and MANY people played since 04 - 15+ years of enjoying wow, then boom - we all burned out at the same time?

Now take it further - ppl like many of us who started in 04, some who started in 06, some who started in 2010, some who started in 13 - all various ages, gender, location, lifestyle, employment status - we ALL "burned out" at the same time? Yeah, solid "yeah nah" from me.

BfA did have a lot to do, HOWEVER, i use this (terrible) analogy all the time - it doesnt matter how fancy the racetrack is, how many ups and downs, twists and turns, alternate routes, shortcuts and jumps it has - it doesnt matter how fancy the concession stands are, how comfortable the grandstands are, how many people are watching, how good the sound system is or how smooth the racetrack is...

----IF---

Everyone is just randomly charging around the same track in different directions, confused and angry at everyone else, getting random prizes just for driving, no matter how terribly they are driving, and you need to stop every couple of laps to check spreadsheets and data to understand which convoluted path you should take when getting back on track, only to find certain other cars are much faster than yours because they randomly got upgrades, even though they have L plates, and ultimately, everyone is just driving around in a 1987 Honda civic with a blown transmission, flat tires, a broken windshield, and only 1 cylinder is firing.

[cparle87]

And remember, this is a game where we get dragons in the mail, can fly, gravity is hardly a thing at all, we can time travel, teleport, carry hundreds of mounts, carry tonnes and tonnes of weapons and armor, etc etc etc..........................or you know, A) its a game and B) - MAGIC!

I try to leave out gameplay and story segregation elements when considering the realistic level of events. Like Varian was shocked to see the Hearthstone Jaina gave Anduin so he could get away when he was having one of his Lo'gosh moods. He said he'd never seen one before, only in stories of mages and elves. And this is something everyone magically starts with in our bags. Which a faction leader thought was a myth. =-)

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Also, it's a fucking magical tree, magic goes both ways

You say magic only goes so far, then say it's a magic tree so it's unrelistic that it got burned. Also keep in mind that Teldrassil was corrupted for a long time and even after it was finally fixed it only got 2 of the 3 Aspect blessings that Nordrassil did. You know, the same Aspects that lost their powers almost immediately after? And we've had world trees destroyed before. The druids had to destroy the one in Grizzly Hills themselves when they realized its corruption. In short, Teldrassil was not as magical and special as people seem to think it is.

[Deneios]

Stopped BFA before corruptions because classes felt neutered after Legion. Came back and got some gear and was slapped with item that threw me straight to tier 3 corruption with no Cloak yet. Horrible times. Stopped playing again and came back when they removed corruptions. BFA was horrible for returning players.

[LordVargK]

Hahahahahaha. No, just absolute garbage. You are 100% wrong and need to educate yourself. So many healthy living trees burn in forest fires, there exist multiple studies specifically on the release of carbon WHEN THEY BURN IN FOREST FIRES.

Seriously, how can someone be so wrong about something? Holy shit dude.

You're comparing apples to oranges here.
A forest fire ist caused in extremely dry conditions were enough fodder for the fire is present. If a healthy tree happens to be surrounded by dry bushes and shrubbery, then yes, eventuall it will catch fire.

But we're talking about a single tree here, the size of a mountain being attacked by catapults.
Try shooting a redwood tree with incidiary rounds and see if it ignites. That's about the comparison we make here.

But I guess you've never seen a fire in real life, so how would you know?

[Echeyakee]

I think it was just a pendulum swing effect. The entire expansion felt like they were chasing after the success of legion without stopping to think what made people like it. So BFA set out to be legion++ but instead of being better, most systems just got grindy and overly complicated.

Lack of QA also pissed many people off. Expansion launched with so many issues, including countless bugs and issues reported during alpha and beta testing. And they basically gave up on class design early in beta, promising a lot but delivery on almost none. At some point I'm pretty sure they actually said "we ran out of time for shamen" or something along the line, essentially trying to excuse themselves for doing nothing to fix several classes that were struggling at the time. And the initial expansion systems were either poorly designed (azerite armor and neck level requirements) and just plain unfinished (like warfronts and islands).

And overall "feel" of the game took a hit. It felt like the company was throwing a tantrum, refusing to listen to any feedback or critique. The whole game felt like legion reskin, but everything is slightly worse.

[Mysterymask]

But we're talking about a single tree here, the size of a mountain being attacked by catapults.
Try shooting a redwood tree with incidiary rounds and see if it ignites. That's about the comparison we make here.

But I guess you've never seen a fire in real life, so how would you know?

It wouldn't burn that quickly no but if you carpet bomb a red wood forest it's gonna fucking burn and probably pretty fast and given magical nature and all...really who is looking for realism in fucking world of warcraft

This tree burning happened after a fight between a mutated troll who can turn into a bear fought the ressurected corpse of another mutated troll who has death magic gifted to her by not-Satan who got ambushed by some alien who drank Not Satan Blood yet some fucking how the bear didn't notice him meanwhile zombie lady orders a tree to get burned because of a hissy fit that's apprantly because the tree people's moon goddess was trying to help her sister


Yes the tree is the deal breaker

[Coldkil]

First of, I played Wow until the end of 2018. Meaning that I only played BFA in the first raid tier. I was able to kill Mythic Zul with my guild, and tried the island expenditions, the new allied race, and the warfronts.

I remember that I really enjoyed the expansion, I quit just because I got a new job and wow was very time consuming.

So, I really want to know why BFA was so hated. I have read enough information about why Shadowland was considered the worst WOW expansion, but I havent see much information why BFA was hated too.

Thanks

BfA sucked because a) it was Legion with a different name and b) azerite gear was just terrible to acquire, benthing gear was an rng fiesta and corruption was a nice idea very badly implemented. The whole raid scene was automaticall made obsolete by running M+ that gave you a lot of your BiS gear.

Island expedition were fun at the beginning but never got anything really innovative. Warfronts failed and were basically abandoned. The story was all over the place.

Only things i really save is obviously leveling, dungeons and raid which were good as usual, and the Essence system which was really good.


Point is, that while BfA is truly a bad expansion overall, SL managed to make it even worse. More arbitrary game friction, a directionless story, and basically Legion 2.1 endgame loop that people is just getting bored about.

Legion is fondly remebered mostly because it brought so much new stuff. It introduced a lot of problems aswell, that got ultimately solved in 7.2 and 7.3. But then we entered in this loop of "grind this system only to have it removed for the next expansion". It worked for Legion because it was new and made some sense with the story. With BfA people was asking immediatly "what will be of Azerite". In SL people just didn't bother and Blizzard clearly didn't know how to react to the people leaving in troves when suddendly they realized they are not forced to play WoW and other games (of all kinds) exist.

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[*]Constant lag fests. First day I couldn't do anything for 2 hours, because servers kept crashing and it didn't get better all expansion when huge events were going on

I forgot about this. And this was mostly due to the insane amount of procs players had that stressed the shit out of the servers.

Funnily enough, it's the problem that plagued D3 for a long time, and strangely enough when the D3 was absorbed by the WoW team in Legion we started to have similar mechanics rolling and similar issues appearing XD

[KrayZ33]

In my case it's pretty simple.

I went from having a blast playing hunter in Legion to not enjoying it at all.
MM was just so horrible to play with the lack of substats and lack of OP Azerite traits (which came so much later)

I still have a clip where I tried to fish for a AiS proc (not quite sure what it was about anymore... I think you stacked up your AiS damage with each steady shot) and had to do that like 12 times in a row before it procced. It was wrong to do it for as long as I did in that clip... but I really wanted to know when I'd get it.
No bad luck protection or anything.
It just sucked.

[Ielenia]

Go to a healthy tree and try to set fire to it. You won't be able to set it ablaze.

You'll also won't be able to set a piece of coal ablaze by just bringing a lit match to it, just so you know. And I'll repeat: in the real world, you can't wiggle your fingers and make a sunken ship suddenly emerge from the bottom of the sea and fly on its own.

"Magical fire", yeah sure, how innovative. If you want to like BfA's story, fine. You can't argue taste.

Yeah... it'd be nice if you actually read what people write:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying BfA is good or even average, but I'm confused at some of your complaints.

And yes, "magical fire" is a thing that exists in the Warcraft universe. It's literally explained in the lore.
"Teldrassil was burned down by the Horde under the orders of Sylvanas Windrunner. The Horde used demolishers with arcane-enhanced payload, while the shaman in Darkshore conjured winds to amplify the flames."

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"magic" can only go so far before people stop believing in it. It has to make sense in universe.
Most of the things you mentioned are gameplay concessions to lore (with the exception of time travel, which can only be done by bronze dragons in lore, don't think we've seen anyone else do it, and teleportation, which has been shown to be only possible by really talented mages), while the tree being burned was a pivotal plot moment.

Also, it's a fucking magical tree, magic goes both ways

Khadgar did it, at the beginning of WoD, when he teleports in construction workers from Stormwind/Orgrimmar.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

BFA like most modern expansions are pretty dope if you pretty much just cling to one of the pillars of content and that's it.. like pvp, m+, or raiding. So if you just log in.. do that.. and log out pretty much they were as good if not better than most other expansions in the history of the game. If you want to play an MMO where you can log in and kind lose yourself in the game.. well.. that is where the modern expansions kind of fell off.

So really its the mentality you play with. If you just like to log in on Tuesday and knock out the weekly stuff. Raid that night. Then log in another night or two during week to raid and log off right after then BFA was pretty fucking awesome probably.

[Berkilak]

On paper, BfA was better than Legion.
On paper, SL was better than BfA.

It all comes down to the following:

1. Execution.
2. Player burnout.

If players are already burnt out on the formula, any minor issues are going to be exaggerated exponentially.

[Caprias]

BFA like most modern expansions are pretty dope if you pretty much just cling to one of the pillars of content and that's it.. like pvp, m+, or raiding. So if you just log in.. do that.. and log out pretty much they were as good if not better than most other expansions in the history of the game. If you want to play an MMO where you can log in and kind lose yourself in the game.. well.. that is where the modern expansions kind of fell off.

So really its the mentality you play with. If you just like to log in on Tuesday and knock out the weekly stuff. Raid that night. Then log in another night or two during week to raid and log off right after then BFA was pretty fucking awesome probably.

I tried exactly this as I play for the moment to moment gameplay and don't really care about collecting stuff, you make it sound so easy when in reality you had to do a metric fuckton of checklists to properly m+ and raid.

[Infernoxas]

• Azerite armor was in alpha state at release. A concept that punishes you for getting a better piece of gear should have never gone live. And it did not get that much better as the expansion went on. You were heavily punished for playing more than one spec of your class.

SL is not even remotely as bad as BfA.

Too add, respecing azarite traits doubled each time to an infinite number. I heard some people paying upwards to 10k for a respec...

[StillMcfuu]

Big expansion features missed the target completely, Islands, Warfronts.
Tier sets were dropped and the replacement for them wasn't great and didn't offer the same type of class interaction tier sets did.
The story felt rushed and major lore characters were farmed out to single patches. Which especially hurts considering it all lead to the Jailor and SL and its been dog shit.
After removing borrowed power systems from Legion, we were left with empty feeling classes that play poorly, their replacement systems seemingly started off in a worse state than Legion did.
AP grind

Tl;Dr
Gameplay is continuing to pay for the sins of Legion and borrowed power.
Story was rushed, incomplete, and gave us a lot of promise and no reward.
New features missed their mark and feedback on how to make them better was completely ignored outside of minor token changes that didn't require effort.

All that being said, BFA at least isn't SL bad.

[Khaza-R]

Hahahahahaha. No, just absolute garbage. You are 100% wrong and need to educate yourself. So many healthy living trees burn in forest fires, there exist multiple studies specifically on the release of carbon WHEN THEY BURN IN FOREST FIRES.

Seriously, how can someone be so wrong about something? Holy shit dude.

Depends on the type of tree and so many other environmental factors, honestly. Conifers are much more susceptible to wildfires than deciduous trees. Some even have flammable sap. Some other trees, especially in tropical climates, have flame retardant sap. You really can't make a definitive statement either way.

Regardless, its a magical universe we're dealing with so debating RL chemistry and dendrology seems rather pointless.