Dragonflight Talents for Mages

[Leyers]

Whatever you believe about this upcoming change, what i think is technically sure is the increased variety of gameplay we're gonna experience


Think about changing between your load outs mid-instance anytime you want to really get into AoE for the trash, or in the open world when you want that extra CC.
Looks promising to my eyes




What are your hopes and ideas for our Talent trees ?

Do you like the idea of a tree reserved for class and one for spec, from a mage prospective?







I just wanna throw some missiles behind a pillar as a fire mage, i think it's something any mage should be able to do

[Cosmic Janitor]

I really hope that as the new baseline these talents will not be far from the current talents. They mentioned that they will be extendable for a couple expansions, which has me worried that we'll need to wait until 11.0 until we can get stuff like Meteor or Glacial Spike again. Essentially a Legion 2.0 overhaul, but this time they won't give us all the toys back right now.

I hope they make all talents worthwhile or at least break with the current rut in the system that has existed for years now. Make other talents viable, like they already should, instead of just adding the same still born talents into the next system just to pad it. Not everything needs to be 100% equal, but at least make it a sensible choice unlike straight up DPS losses, like some talents (GS *cough*) are now.

I hope against hope that that we will see alot of new stuff already. If the most exciting thing about the new system is that I need to click a few times more then it's not at all interesting. Stuff like more fireblast charges just needs to be baseline, if the whole spec needs it to actually work. I want to see new stuff beyond the rather tame Meteor or lame passives like TV as the ultimate for the talents.

I hope mage won't lose stuff like dragon's breath and Ray of Frost to the new scalie wank class, because from what they've shown they seem to take liberally from mages. I hope this won't turn into another warlock situation.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Here are my hopes for Mage as a whole, and also for Fire and Frost specifically.


Mage overall:

- The toolkit needs to be reverted to MoP era in terms of what a Mage can do regardless of specialization. Presence of Mind, Cone of Cold, Ice Lance, etc. should all be baseline again. DoT Snap Shotting with Alter Time should be re-instituted as well.


Frost:

- Mastery reverted to Cataclysm incarnation

- Deep Freeze ability back

- Frostjaw ability back

- Improved Cone of Cold talent back

- Flame Orb ability back

- Improved Ice Barrier talent back

- Improved Counter Spell talent back



Fire:

- Molten Fury talent back

- Blazing Speed ability back

- Phoenix Flames reverted to Legion era in that it crits 100% of the time

- Blast Wave should be reverted to TBC/Wrath era in that it can be casted wherever the Mage wants without needing a target, such as how Flamestrike and Blizzard work

- Ignite should be reverted to either Wrath era with Fireblast spreading it or WoD era in that it passively spreads to everything

- Living Bomb reverted to unlimited spread

[Leyers]

Here are my hopes for Mage as a whole, and also for Fire and Frost specifically.


Mage overall:

- The toolkit needs to be reverted to MoP era in terms of what a Mage can do regardless of specialization. Presence of Mind, Cone of Cold, Ice Lance, etc. should all be baseline again. DoT Snap Shotting with Alter Time should be re-instituted as well.


Frost:

- Mastery reverted to Cataclysm incarnation

- Deep Freeze ability back

- Frostjaw ability back

- Improved Cone of Cold talent back

- Flame Orb ability back

- Improved Ice Barrier talent back

- Improved Counter Spell talent back



Fire:

- Molten Fury talent back

- Blazing Speed ability back

- Phoenix Flames reverted to Legion era in that it crits 100% of the time

- Blast Wave should be reverted to TBC/Wrath era in that it can be casted wherever the Mage wants without needing a target, such as how Flamestrike and Blizzard work

- Ignite should be reverted to either Wrath era with Fireblast spreading it or WoD era in that it passively spreads to everything

- Living Bomb reverted to unlimited spread

That just sounds unrealistic


It is basically demanding for everything they got rid off to come back

[klaps_05]

Deep Freeze (4s off GCD version)
Molten Skin (fire artifact trait)
All 3 mage armors castable like auras and the barriers having stronger passive effect
Flame Orb
Old living bomb and ignite

[Nehem]

as arcane mage I want: old mastery (16% more dmg based on unspent mana +2% per full mastery point - 35rating), mage armor (+5 to mastery), evanesce and haste thats increase our mana regen

[TheWorkingTitle]

That just sounds unrealistic


It is basically demanding for everything they got rid off to come back

Your "unrealistic" was reality from Vanilla to MoP. I want the Class to be reverted to pre-WoD pruning and pigeonholing.


The class, from Vanilla to MoP, was a Master of the Arcane. It was able to draw upon Fire, Frost, and Arcane spells. Becoming specialized just meant you could perform more within one of those sects of the Arcane, while still retaining the ability to draw upon the rest of the baseline toolkit.


Starting in WoD, the Mage's baseline toolkit was stripped away and scattered to the three specializations. This was a fundamental change to the class, and it has never fully recovered since. It forced Mages to become Arcanomancers, Pyromaniacs, and Ice Callers. Become great at one sect, at the cost of the other two.


Just as a Master Chef could specialize in French Cuisine without forgetting about every other recipe, so too could a Master of the Arcane specialize in Frost/Fire/Arcane without forgetting about every other spell. This hasn't been the case since WoD, and I'd like it reverted back. I would take any iteration of Mage prior to WoD over the Arcanomancers, Pyromaniacs, and Ice Callers we sadly have now.

[Lodravel]

Your "unrealistic" was reality from Vanilla to MoP. I want the Class to be reverted to pre-WoD pruning and pigeonholing.


The class, from Vanilla to MoP, was a Master of the Arcane. It was able to draw upon Fire, Frost, and Arcane spells. Becoming specialized just meant you could perform more within one of those sects of the Arcane, while still retaining the ability to draw upon the rest of the baseline toolkit.


Starting in WoD, the Mage's baseline toolkit was stripped away and scattered to the three specializations. This was a fundamental change to the class, and it has never fully recovered since. It forced Mages to become Arcanomancers, Pyromaniacs, and Ice Callers. Become great at one sect, at the cost of the other two.


Just as a Master Chef could specialize in French Cuisine without forgetting about every other recipe, so too could a Master of the Arcane specialize in Frost/Fire/Arcane without forgetting about every other spell. This hasn't been the case since WoD, and I'd like it reverted back. I would take any iteration of Mage prior to WoD over the Arcanomancers, Pyromaniacs, and Ice Callers we sadly have now.

This is the sentiment I've been expressing ever since WoD. Every expansion that came afterwards, I've waited for a return to the roots. But nothing! So far... DF is looking to be the best shot in a while for mages to return to their former glory.

I've looked at your list and don't agree with all of the choices, but that's just semantics. The one thing most exciting would probably be for decent slows to be returned to fire mage. And a little less reliance on Combustion - as fun as that spell is, it also requires fire mage to be a wet noodle outside of it... and that's decidedly unfun. A more balanced approach, maybe.

Of course, it'll be 8 years soon and most old mage players have probably moved on, forgotten how it used to be or don't mind the current state but man, to me, it'd be like Christmas Eve to an 8-year old boy.


One specific thing I'd definitly get my knickers in a bunch over: If they were to make Mana more relevant again, say through the reintroduction of Manashield.

[cocomen2]

congrats dear mages, Mass Poly + Alexa Fury + shitload of self healing in base tree, i bet fire mage gonna end up as 2nd fotm spec/class after Evoker in DF.

[bmjclark]

Is that tempered flames talent good enough to push pyroblast into just being the filler spell instead of fireball? 35% cast time reduction and 15% crit seems pretty good

[Lulbalance]

congrats dear mages, Mass Poly + Alexa Fury + shitload of self healing in base tree, i bet fire mage gonna end up as 2nd fotm spec/class after Evoker in DF.

i hope you're trolling..

[Warning]

The mage tree honestly is terrible. PVP wise giving Slow to every single mage is going to be extremely unfun, reminiscent of Sacrolash for locks. It ruins Arcane's spec identity as well. Mass Poly sounds like something an intern came up with in about 5 minutes, terrible idea but fortunately impractical enough that it wont be used. The bottom of the mage tree is so depressing I didn't even finish speccing. 3% extra snaring for a point? 0.5 seconds off Blink? That feels terrible to put rare points into. More passive healing and shielding? The opposite of what PVP needed. Dragonsbreath for every mage? Rip Fire PVP identity.

The frost tree is basically just damage, nothing interesting at all. Nah this isn't it.

[schwarzkopf]

The mage tree honestly is terrible.

It is of course not terrible, it does however need some tweaks - like putting Remove Curse and Spell Steal behind some completely unrelated talents.

I do agree Slow should be further down the tree.

The talent trees are modelled around the classic style of trees, which is what everyone has been pushing for since they were removed ... be happy they listed to people.

[Jaggler]

I don't think fire tree is too bad, could shuffle some stuff around.

Though why tf is there a 2-point-talent to increase Blazing Barriers damage? Can't we have something interesting there. Maybe aftershock from Felö'melorn considering the right sinde is more Flamestrike/AoE-focussed anyways.

It is of course not terrible, it does however need some tweaks - like putting Remove Curse and Spell Steal behind some completely unrelated talents.

I do agree Slow should be further down the tree.

The talent trees are modelled around the classic style of trees, which is what everyone has been pushing for since they were removed ... be happy they listed to people.

yeah, the cone of cold/shatter into remove curse etc. is weird. It feels like i am just wasting points. just remove them or move them down further and pull Remove Curse up. Also Ice Floes/Shimmer is in a really weird spot.

[Warning]

It is of course not terrible, it does however need some tweaks - like putting Remove Curse and Spell Steal behind some completely unrelated talents.

I do agree Slow should be further down the tree.

The talent trees are modelled around the classic style of trees, which is what everyone has been pushing for since they were removed ... be happy they listed to people.

Lmao sorry, but I've never experienced a talent tree that I didn't feel like finishing speccing. It's that bad. And get outta here with that be happy shit lol, this is an evisceration of the specs' identity mixed with a bunch of ideas that will feel terrible in PVP. This is nothing like the TBC or WoTLk trees.

[schwarzkopf]

It's that bad

Well, it isn't that bad and neither is it that good - constructive feedback is always more useful that 0/10 and 10/10 scores for things.

- - - Updated - - -

This is nothing like the TBC or WoTLk trees.

Indeed, these are somewhat more interesting and better than the TBC/LK trees - by a long shot.

But they follow the same concept, just done better via some years of experience.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I honestly dislike that new tree. It seems like you need to spend points for a basic spells that were usually given with abilities that are now part of our legendary gear. It’s just going to be so difficult to get used to.

[Jaggler]

I honestly dislike that new tree. It seems like you need to spend points for a basic spells that were usually given with abilities that are now part of our legendary gear. It’s just going to be so difficult to get used to.

That's what the "old" talents have always been though.
If anything they are far more diverse and exciting than old talent trees.

[bloodwulf]

Most of the higher end Mage players such as Preheat\Firedup\Xyronic seem to think the talents are pretty bad. Fire is almost passable, but frost and arcane lose a ton of identity, and are outright broken (4 talent points to get flurry as good as retail, arcane orb placement). Several talents will almost never be taken due to their position in the tree, for example "Conjure Mana Gem" and "Cascading Power" require far too much commitment to spend the points.

Hopefully Blizzard is as responsive on feedback for mages as they have been for other specs, i was really looking to play frost as my 2nd or 3rd character in DF.

[Jaggler]

Most of the higher end Mage players such as Preheat\Firedup\Xyronic seem to think the talents are pretty bad. Fire is almost passable, but frost and arcane lose a ton of identity, and are outright broken (4 talent points to get flurry as good as retail, arcane orb placement). Several talents will almost never be taken due to their position in the tree, for example "Conjure Mana Gem" and "Cascading Power" require far too much commitment to spend the points.

Hopefully Blizzard is as responsive on feedback for mages as they have been for other specs, i was really looking to play frost as my 2nd or 3rd character in DF.

Fire is in a similar situation with fireblast. it takes 4 points (fire blast itself + guaranteed crit + flame on) until it "works properly"