Poll: Do you want Calia as the new Forsaken leader and Queen of Lordaeron?

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  1. #1

    Question What do you think the future of the Forsaken will be under Calia Menethil? [Spoilers]

    There's a new quest regarding Calia Menethil and her future role among the Forsaken in Lordaeron:
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-cal...26984#comments

    It is hinted that one of Genn Greymane's mages sends the Alliance adventurer to Brill in Tirisfal Glades to meet with Calia, but further information remains unclear as of yet.

    An alarming rumor has reached me, thanks to our spies.

    The Forsaken are mustering in Tirisfal Glades. For what purpose, I do not know. Notably, Calia Menethil has gone there as well.

    We must know more of what they are up to, now that the accursed Banshee Queen no longer unites them.

    Go, don a disguise and see what you can discover. Observe everything. And if there is opportunity to gain their trust and learn more, do as they ask.

    I eagerly await your report.
    I don't have much opinion about Calia as a character, although I know that many people are at best skeptical towards her. What role do you think she should play in the future? Would most of the Forsaken actually accept her as the Queen of Lordaeron?

    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2022-05-09 at 05:44 PM.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  2. #2
    Most of her development was in the book Before the Storm, which I quite enjoyed. I do understand that this character isn't well established for a large amount of the playerbase that do not read these books, which is their right.
    But as someone who did, I really liked her and I like the idea of her leading the Forsaken, or at least heavily invested in them.
    I feel like people's feelings over Calia will depend on which characterization of the Forsaken each person likes best. Is it the "machievelian villains" or the "tragic, misunderstood and persecuted minority". Over the years, Forsaken have been characterized as a mix of both.
    For those who like the murderous, poisonous, dark themes, at first sight it seems logical they wouldn't appreciate Calia in the lead.
    Those who appreciate the "tragic, discriminated community, humans at heart that were shaped by tragedy", like me, probably like the prospect of Calia in the lead.
    Because, agree with it or not, ultimately the road they went on with Sylvanas was that of a mostly unfeeling leader that saw her subjects as intruments for self preservation. Calia, on the other hand, in the book, attempted to help the Forsaken who wished to reconnect with their living families, wanted to help them with their grief, loneliness. And despite how other may spin it, she died trying to help them too. Once a forsaken recognized who she was behind her disguise, they urged her to reveal herself, as a symbol that they still feel is important. Which lead to her death. Until that point, she was helping them anonimously, and had no other intentions other than to bring peace to the forsaken.
    That is what I feel the forsaken deserve, after having been deceived and treated like disposable objects or irredeemable monsters. They deserve someone who is kind and cares about them, and sees them for their humanity instead of flinching in horror/seeing them as meat puppets.

    EDIT:
    Though I am critical that, apart from the book, we never get to see her do things. It all kind of happens off screen, which doesn't help establishing her as a character or why she matters. We know she helped Derek Proudmoore, but we didn't actually see her do it. Same with the Dark Rangers. I hope we actually get to see what she does and say in game, instead of it all happening off screen.
    Last edited by Hugnomo; 2022-05-09 at 06:05 PM.

  3. #3
    Over 9000! Golden Yak's Avatar
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    Hopefully living in a retaken and rebuilt Undercity, but probably without all the questionable mad science and plague crafting, which is a bummer. I want them to take inspiration from the Necrolords and have factories for pumping out abominations and plague weapons. Classic Forsaken shit.

  4. #4
    I'm fully expecting something like "Lordaeron is for everyone" type of story where she unites the Forsaken and the living under a single banner. Which will be cringe. But Calia's story and character post-Legion is pretty cringe in general.

  5. #5
    I am not a fan of Calia Menethil at all. Sylvanus was wayyy better

  6. #6
    The same future McMurphy had after Nurse Ratched was done with him.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    Calia sucks.
    Her family's dynasty sucks.
    Possibly making her the new Forsaken leader because she's a Menethil sucks.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    I think it would be cool to see a story of her trying to settle the Forsaken in Hillsbrad Foothills and/or Arathi Highlands, and since Stromgarde is reclaimed by the Alliance, this provokes Turalyon.
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2022-05-09 at 10:01 PM.

  9. #9
    Bringing Calia back could have been interesting, but making her the new forsaken leader is predictable and bad at the same time. They should have built up actual forsaken characters. Calia did not suffer their fate, has no real connection to what they've been through, and even her light undead special circumstances doesn't seem to be the same as what the forsaken suffer. She has not earned any sort of leadership position among them and while the forsaken may not blame her for Arthas, they shouldn't readily accept her either.

    She could be a fine bridge between the forsaken and living family members but should not be put in a leadership position.

    Anyone else kind of wish the Andorhol story in Cata hadn't ended in the two sides fighting? A town with half living and half undead banding together while surrounded by the scourge etc could have had so much potential for interesting storytelling, but instead it mostly just served to push forward the story of those two death knights.

  10. #10
    Brill? Wasn't Brill annihilated?
    'Words do not win wars. That is a tragedy.'

  11. #11
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    Theoretically Calia might be the best thing to happen to the Forsaken, but it wouldn't make for a very interesting story for me. I like the mad science stuff in the faction, balanced by some level-headed individuals like Belmont and Velonara. Shoehorning Calia in there to tell a story I'm not interested in would suck.

    Whether or not she's made their leader she is sure to play some part in their development. The only path I'd be interested in was if Calia was made to choose between the Forsaken and her encroaching Alliance friends should Turalyon decide to push for Lordaeron.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    Calia sucks.
    Her family's dynasty sucks.
    Possibly making her the new Forsaken leader because she's a Menethil sucks.

    Blizzard subtly telling us who the undead rightfully belong to... there must always be, a Menethil.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugnomo View Post
    Most of her development was in the book Before the Storm, which I quite enjoyed. I do understand that this character isn't well established for a large amount of the playerbase that do not read these books, which is their right.
    But as someone who did, I really liked her and I like the idea of her leading the Forsaken, or at least heavily invested in them.
    I feel like people's feelings over Calia will depend on which characterization of the Forsaken each person likes best. Is it the "machievelian villains" or the "tragic, misunderstood and persecuted minority". Over the years, Forsaken have been characterized as a mix of both.
    For those who like the murderous, poisonous, dark themes, at first sight it seems logical they wouldn't appreciate Calia in the lead.
    Those who appreciate the "tragic, discriminated community, humans at heart that were shaped by tragedy", like me, probably like the prospect of Calia in the lead.
    Because, agree with it or not, ultimately the road they went on with Sylvanas was that of a mostly unfeeling leader that saw her subjects as intruments for self preservation. Calia, on the other hand, in the book, attempted to help the Forsaken who wished to reconnect with their living families, wanted to help them with their grief, loneliness. And despite how other may spin it, she died trying to help them too. Once a forsaken recognized who she was behind her disguise, they urged her to reveal herself, as a symbol that they still feel is important. Which lead to her death. Until that point, she was helping them anonimously, and had no other intentions other than to bring peace to the forsaken.
    That is what I feel the forsaken deserve, after having been deceived and treated like disposable objects or irredeemable monsters. They deserve someone who is kind and cares about them, and sees them for their humanity instead of flinching in horror/seeing them as meat puppets.
    I generally appreciate the "tragic" side of Forsaken lore, although I do not see it as contradictory to their more dark nature as well (Vanilla had a good mix of both and I don't see why we can't return to that). However I have difficulty seeking how Calia fits into that. Calia is not really a tragic character at all- she has experienced none of the loss that the rest of the Forsaken have, nor has she ever experienced the discrimination or despair that lie at the heart of their pathos. Whereas most ordinary Forsaken have had to come to terms with an existence cut off from the Light which they worshipped, rejected by their former comrades and family members, and conscripted into service of either the Lich King or Sylvanas, Calia has experienced the exact opposite. She is closer to the Light than she ever was in life, remains a welcome figure among her allies in the Alliance, and has never had to experience the guilt that comes with even unwilling cooperation with evil.

    Ultimately Calia embodies nothing more than a grey-skinned version of generic Stormwind humans. None of the redeeming features that the more tragic Forsaken have already exhibited are present in her backstory- not the compassion and meaning brought into Forsaken society by the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, not the comradery we have seen building through the expansions between ordinary Forsaken and the other races of the Horde, and not the heroic struggle to reclaim their homeland from Scarlet Crusade and the Scourge. The very fact that the devs, in trying to define the future of the post-Sylvanas Forsaken, have not mentioned any of this but instead simply reach for a generic light-worshipping, alliance-aligned, newly re-appeared human whose right to rule is solely based on noble birth rather than shared struggle, is emblematic of their lack of respect for prior Forsaken lore.

    Now its possible that the devs might be planning for her to integrate more into existing Forsaken culture in the future, and if that happens then I think she might just work. But until then Calia really doesn't fit into any aspect of existing Forsaken characterisation- tragic, evil, or otherwise.
    Last edited by Tharivor; 2022-05-09 at 11:50 PM.

  14. #14
    Calia is fundamentally not a Forsaken and she represents all the worst story decisions the devs forced on them in recent years, starting with the "Forsaken are just humans with a skin condition" bullshit that was Before the Shitstorm. Here's to hoping that the main villain of the next expansion kills her again as the expansion's "look, this story totally has stakes" moment.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I'm fully expecting something like "Lordaeron is for everyone" type of story where she unites the Forsaken and the living under a single banner. Which will be cringe. But Calia's story and character post-Legion is pretty cringe in general.
    You know, maybe horde needs some “cringe” to cease your endless edge. Cringe as cure for edge, sounds logical to me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayb View Post
    Brill? Wasn't Brill annihilated?
    Bet its already back. Also notice how Forsaken have Tirisfal back but Teldrassil as a zone is gone and Darkshore is uninhabitable as per lore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Calia is fundamentally not a Forsaken and she represents all the worst story decisions the devs forced on them in recent years, starting with the "Forsaken are just humans with a skin condition" bullshit that was Before the Shitstorm. Here's to hoping that the main villain of the next expansion kills her again as the expansion's "look, this story totally has stakes" moment.
    I agree, this is a horrible story. I mean, imagine blizz taking a race down a path of complete and utter castration and defanging just to appease a more “vanilla” (not WoW Vanilla, the ice cream) type of audience , perhaps even people from the same faction but who enjoy more “basic” and “watered down” races? Tsk, that would be such a shit move.

    Imagine them persisting on doing it for years.

    Just imagine…

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    I would rather they delete the Forsaken then have this fake undead take over.

  17. #17
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Knowing her she'll probably try to walk them towards being more open with the living or maybe we might see some light incursion stuff starting to bud out.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    I would rather they delete the Forsaken then have this fake undead take over.
    Sorry you dont like it! But keep enjoying it , spoon after spoon - force fed to you by Blizz.

    Thats what killed the Alliance - complete and utter disregard of everything fans liked.

    Sure feels great knowing they already ruined every race here and moved over there to you!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    I would rather they delete the Forsaken then have this fake undead take over.
    We sadly won't have that luck so this walking parody of the original race will continue wasting oxygen for years to come.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    We sadly won't have that luck so this walking parody of the original race will continue wasting oxygen for years to come.
    Been there, seen that.

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