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  1. #101
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    It makes logical sense to gain an extra 10 million subs into gamepass. Once they reach 55 million or so they now profit from gamepass and have the biggest online userbase for gaming. It will only take them like 9 years to pay for the acquisition and they just need to keep 55 million or more.
    By losing out on 10 million subs of revenue. Including the revenue generated by the token. It is more likely they offer a discount on the game pass for WoW subscribers. Like I said what you claim is unsupported by the ESO, FO76 and the other "subscription" games they may have acquired. Wouldn't they want to add the 2.5 estimated ESO subscribers to game pass? Or entice the non-subscribing players to get game pass? If it is all about boosting Game Pass subscribers then why pass up existing products?
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    But beside the question how many whales there are it simply is true. A whale is someone who invests a lot of real money into a game to gain ingame advtanges, and those token buyers who buy boosts actually do that. So yes, blizzard turns, at least these players i know about, into whales. And i imagine there are way more than those few i know.

    This is no conspiracy theory, as there is no conspiracy in saying "Blizzard makes money with tokens". It simply is the truth.
    Please go back and read my original post where I told you why this is a conspiracy theory. (You know, the part of my post you didn't quote.) I'm done repeating myself as I'm positive I've had this exact conversation with you multiple times at this point.

  3. #103
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    i surely hope not. I make so much gold from boosting bads that cant be assed to increase their iO on their own. I get my full vault and stacks of gold every week from these fools. The profits are delicious.

  4. #104
    To quote you fully:

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    This is a conspiracy. You have no idea what portion of Blizzard's revenue comes from boosting.
    Right, but i know some, and that is argument enough to say there actually are whales, and they use the token system to buy boosts. I never argumented about the amount. I simply wrote that boosting is way more epidemic as all chats and group finders are full of ads no matter if they are banned. You did not have that in the old days, even if there was a LFG chat and a trade chat already those days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    We do know that an admin from Gallywix, one of the largest boosting communities to ever exist, said that even if they RMT'd every boost that it'd only be a few million. Considering Blizzard's current revenue is in the hundreds of millions, it's safe to assume that whatever amount Blizzard takes in from boosting through token sales is peanuts compared to traditional subscriptions and other value added services.
    How much does that change the fact there actually are whales and that blizzard creates them by not giving them progression pathes? You even said yourself there should be progression for those players (while you condemded vertical progression, which i do not see as a reason). So that simply is the solution. Get those boostees to play their gameplay. With their rewards. That could even be part of the vertical progression. Drop gear from world quests with different difficulties. Allow crafters to progress without having to run raids or dungeons. Make something like torghast but with gearing rewards.

    And simply lets get rid of gate keeping. Yes, raiders demand good gear. But other players also should get gearing progression. Simply because it is a "core" ( @rhorle !) mechanic of the game.

    And really, that is all that is needed to solve the problem.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-05-11 at 06:13 PM.

  5. #105
    I would love to see stats on how much the community boosting lowered sales, if it is even possible to measure such a thing.

    Anecdotally, it seems to have made a huge difference. Friends who were doing it stopped because it became way more of a hassle etc.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    I would love to see stats on how much the community boosting lowered sales, if it is even possible to measure such a thing.

    Anecdotally, it seems to have made a huge difference. Friends who were doing it stopped because it became way more of a hassle etc.
    It had a rather large effect from what I've seen. I believe part of the tokens rapid fall in value is a reflection of that.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    By losing out on 10 million subs of revenue. Including the revenue generated by the token. It is more likely they offer a discount on the game pass for WoW subscribers. Like I said what you claim is unsupported by the ESO, FO76 and the other "subscription" games they may have acquired. Wouldn't they want to add the 2.5 estimated ESO subscribers to game pass? Or entice the non-subscribing players to get game pass? If it is all about boosting Game Pass subscribers then why pass up existing products?
    No they are free to play with optional subs, WoW is not free to play, and those other games I legitimately did not remember existed until you brought them up. Removing the token is better for the health of the game in the long term and adding WoW to gamepass ultimate is a win for everyone. I garauntee if they moved current WoW players to a gamepass ultimate sub many of them would be far more likely to check out other gamepass games.
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    People are still shitting on this view I have but I know it will happen, I see based on some of these changes they have been making/working towards and with the Microsoft acquisition they will retire the WoW token as it is a primary incentive to boost and go against the tos. MS wants gamepass subs and the WoW token actually hurts thier subs if you can make money by playing a game to buy other games. Also you can already get free gamepass by doing quizes playing games and getting the microsoft rewards app.

    3 years from now battle.net and gamepass will be merged making it the largest online player base in the world. Somewhere in there retail WoW gets added to consoles and gamepass.
    This would defeat one of the primary purposes of introducing the token, which was to curb the amount of external gold selling/ RMT going on. I see no reason why they would get rid of it. Yes, the people who use in game gold aren't paying subscriptions, but each token purchased pays for that person's sub + $5.

    I'm not saying it's impossible or that the change to Game Pass doesn't make sense or anything, but I'm just not 100% sold on the idea they'll get rid of the token because of the above.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    It had a rather large effect from what I've seen. I believe part of the tokens rapid fall in value is a reflection of that.
    If true it seems like a pretty good example of effective, targeted regulation!

    You can't stop something, but you can reduce the amount greatly by making it more of a pain in the butt. The rest probably isn't worth dealing with

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    To quote you fully:



    Right, but i know some, and that is argument enough to say there actually are whales, and they use the token system to buy boosts. I never argumented about the amount. I simply wrote that boosting is way more epidemic as all chats and group finders are full of ads no matter if they are banned. You did not have that in the old days, even if there was a LFG chat and a trade chat already those days.
    I agree that advertisement is out of control. I would like to see things done to curb the amount of boost advertisement that exists in the game. But that is something that's easier said than done. The solution that @rhorle made about adding a boosting channel is probably the most elegant as it both centralizes the advertisement and allows for easier moderation. They could also try the FFXIV route and make it so that it's opt-in only but I think that'd just have the opposite effect where trade channel would instead be inundated by players looking to buy boosts. Regardless, it's probably better to go take one of these routes as there is very little Blizzard can do to curb the desire for players to be boosted. This neatly moves onto the rest of your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    How much does that change the fact there actually are whales and that blizzard creates them by not giving them progression pathes?
    This is where your tendency to rely on conspiratorial thinking patterns gets the best of you. Blizzard isn't "creating" whales by failing to have multiple gear progression systems in the game. Players choose to seek boosting options. Blizzard isn't telling anybody what to do with their $15/mo in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    You even said yourself there should be progression for those players (while you condemded vertical progression, which i do not see as a reason). So that simply is the solution. Get those boostees to play their gameplay. With their rewards. That could even be part of the vertical progression. Drop gear from world quests with different difficulties. Allow crafters to progress without having to run raids or dungeons. Make something like torghast but with gearing rewards.

    And simply lets get rid of gate keeping. Yes, raiders demand good gear. But other players also should get gearing progression. Simply because it is a "core" ( @rhorle !) mechanic of the game.

    And really, that is all that is needed to solve the problem.
    I never condemned vertical progression. I said that as long as vertical progression exists that so will boosting. Your argument seems to be that if Blizzard gave everybody access to the same potential gear that boosting would vanish. And I'd even be inclined to agree with you there. But that would also require that the way loot works currently would have to go away, to be replaced by a system which either doesn't use loot or greatly diminishes the power creep between casual and "hardcore" players. I think, personally, this is the wrong way to approach the problem because boosting, imo, isn't a big enough issue to warrant this kind of change.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2022-05-11 at 06:38 PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    If true it seems like a pretty good example of effective, targeted regulation!

    You can't stop something, but you can reduce the amount greatly by making it more of a pain in the butt. The rest probably isn't worth dealing with
    If they move onto banning individual groups I think the effect will be noticeable. Right now new accounts advertising usually tend to die in an hour (" was chain queuing something on alt cant recall what lfr or timewalking).

    Right now most of the spam is from a few select groups trying to snag up up a far smaller buyer pool ( most community sales were to br players were na and oceanic too but they made the lions share).

    I am still skeptical they are going this route but if they do it will impact ingame spam pretty drastically.

  12. #112
    blizzard will go bankrupt and sell the licence a lot before boosting is "banned"

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    This is where your tendency to rely on conspiratorial thinking patterns gets the best of you. Blizzard isn't "creating" whales by failing to have multiple gear progression systems in the game. Players choose to seek boosting options. Blizzard isn't telling anybody what to do with their $15/mo in the game.
    Sorry, but you can create turmoils while you did not intend to create them, so the simple process of creating a result does not contain intend. I have no idea if blizzard intended to create the boosting system, but obviously, up to now, they are not stopping it from existing. Did Blizzard intend the system? Probably not. Do they change anything to prevent it? No, beside limiting ads and cross realm, that toxic system is still in place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I never condemned vertical progression. I said that as long as vertical progression exists that so will boosting. Your argument seems to be that if Blizzard gave everybody access to the same potential gear that boosting would vanish. And I'd even be inclined to agree with you there. But that would also require that the way loot works currently would have to go away, to be replaced by a system which either doesn't use loot or greatly diminishes the power creep between casual and "hardcore" players. I think, personally, this is the wrong way to approach the problem because boosting, imo, isn't a big enough issue to warrant this kind of change.
    It is not about boosting only, but also to stop casual gamers quitting after two months of playtime already. A progression system would give them something to do, way longer than nowadays. And those artificial time gates simply are no fun. There still could be special gear you only could get from raids but which also would mainly benefit you in raids. As like group buffs, group abilities that only benefit premade groups on sets. While you would get an as powerful set in world content, which would be still vertical, but with different uses. See pvp gear and pve gear. Actually, there is so much possible. Blizzard just should start to adress most of their players, and not minorities only with a working gearing progression.

    Tho, i agree that boosting probably is not an as big problem once ads are contained successfully. But up to now, blizzard did not manage to get rid of them. And likely never will, so the epidemic effect still is there.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-05-11 at 07:02 PM.

  14. #114
    Hope so. It undermines the point of achieving anything in the game if you can just pay to have someone do it for you.

  15. #115
    Could always hope the day boosters get banned but that probably won't happen.

  16. #116
    They do not have the manpower to ban all boosting and it is stupid to think otherwise. What are they going to do, monitor third party discord servers? Monitor every high end raiding guild and act of trading gold? They don't even have enough customer support as is due to trying to automate most of the process.

  17. #117
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Hope so. It undermines the point of achieving anything in the game if you can just pay to have someone do it for you.
    I've never boosted. I'm fine with the achievements that I can manage to get. Is my game undermined? No, it isn't. Do I care if some stranger's game is undermined? No, I don't. It's their game. If they feel great about it then fine. If it fucks up their game, well....that's on them.

    Nevertheless I'd like to see boosting advertising in chat and on the LFG interface stopped. If it's out of sight, I could not care less.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    They do not have the manpower to ban all boosting and it is stupid to think otherwise. What are they going to do, monitor third party discord servers? Monitor every high end raiding guild and act of trading gold? They don't even have enough customer support as is due to trying to automate most of the process.
    I posted earlier in the thread the idea that player-to-player transactions over a certain amount, say 10,000 gold, could be subject to a 72-hour delay and cancellable by either side. That would be simple enough to code in fact. It wouldn't stop boosting but it might throw a monkey wrench into the gears. I can think of a relatively simple workaround for that (worthless auction house item for 150K gold) but it would add more complication to a process that would have already gotten complicated to manage on a large scale. And even this could be flagged easily enough by Blizzard. It's not an outright ban. I don't know that Blizzard actually wants to drive it from the game. Again with them: There are words and there are actions and the two don't match up. It's the Blizzard way.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2022-05-11 at 07:39 PM.
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  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I posted earlier in the thread the idea that player-to-player transactions over a certain amount, say 10,000 gold, could be subject to a 72-hour delay and cancellable by either side. That would be simple enough to code in fact. It wouldn't stop boosting but it might throw a monkey wrench into the gears.
    Nope, it would just push boosting payment outside of the game to RMT again.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I posted earlier in the thread the idea that player-to-player transactions over a certain amount, say 10,000 gold, could be subject to a 72-hour delay and cancellable by either side. That would be simple enough to code in fact. It wouldn't stop boosting but it might throw a monkey wrench into the gears. I can think of a relatively simple workaround for that (worthless auction house item for 150K gold) but it would add more complication to a process that would have already gotten complicated to manage on a large scale. And even this could be flagged easily enough by Blizzard. It's not an outright ban. I don't know that Blizzard actually wants to drive it from the game. Again with them: There are words and there are actions and the two don't match up. It's the Blizzard way.
    That sounds like a horrible idea.

  20. #120
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    The only solution, as I look back at my old comment here, is that we remove user options from the LFG tool. In this case, boiling it down so people can only see what raid/dungeon that needs people, the difficulty, how many they have of each role, and what language they use. Then the LFG tool boosting spam ads problem is solved.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

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