View Poll Results: Your Opinion about Addons

Voters
177. This poll is closed
  • Ban All Addons

    21 11.86%
  • Allow All Addons

    106 59.89%
  • Ban Combat Addons, Allow Non-combat Addons

    47 26.55%
  • Undecided

    3 1.69%
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by ashblond View Post
    Addons have been a big part of WoW since the beginning. But it is time for us to look into its negative impacts.

    - For hardcores

    The recent WF races are no longer just a competition of game skills, but also a competition of which guild can write best codes and addons. RWF is in game and irl gold sink. It is working a full time job instead of a playing a game.

    It is not surprising at all that more and more hardcore raiding guilds stopped or disbanded. And this trend will continue.

    - For casuals

    I have to agree some streamers have said already: raiding is too hard. It is already hard to find people, form a group and organize a raid for casuals. Then the raids are significantly harder and harder over the years. It is just not fun for casual raiding.

    One of the big reason is the addon. Ion said in recently interview, Blizzard has to make the encounters harder and harder, because combat addons are more and more intelligent. This is just a vicious circle.

    - For Blizzard

    Players shall not be dependant on third party addons to play a game. Basic addons like UI customization, damage meter, coord, should be integrated in the game itself.

    Blizzard’s decision to add voice chat, UI, mouse over, M+ rating, item level, etc. is a good direction. But it is not enough. We need more basic functions included in default settings.

    And the removal of combat addons like DBM will certainly make encounter design more creative.

    - For everyone

    Nobody loves to download, upgrade, set their addons all the time on every computer he plays WoW. It is just a hassle and it should not be necessary.

    The recent Overwolf and WoWup issue shows again how messy third parties are, from curse to twitch to wowup to overwolf to whatever in the future. Players don’t deserve this.

    - For addon developers

    It is great that you make a career and money from making useful addons. But for the greater good of the game and players, this has to stop.

    In sum, Blizzard, it is time to improve wow default settings and ban ALL addons.
    this is satire right?

  2. #62
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rad1um View Post
    Its time to just ban anything that gives anyone a competitive edge:

    Mice
    keyboards
    hands
    etc
    Chop off the pro players' hands until the skill gap between them and me gets small!

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyvax View Post
    They will have to dumb down raid encounters if they do this.

    Encounters are designed around the addons that currently exist. That's why there are tons of mechanics. Look back at molten core bosses, this was before DBM and most addons, and the bosses had like 1 mechanic, maybe 2.
    I think we can find a balance between molten core and current raiding, yes raids might becomes a bit easier but is that a bad thing?
    More people would simply be able to participate and complete them.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Being able to get feedback on your performance allows you to improve your performance. Being able to shave and polish at what you're doing is fun and being able to perform better might have prevented that 1% wipe on a boss your guild hasn't cleared yet.

    Less finnicky; the dps meters also teach inexperienced players how to play the game. It doesn't just show flat numbers, it shows what abilities contribute to the score, and it shows how that distribution for other players. Which means that players can learn from each other, and instruct how to do things better.

    In short DPS meters improve not just an individual player's skill, they also make the game a more social affair. DPS meters should be part of the stock content.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes. Good point. The onus should be on Blizzard to restrict the functionality on addons, not wipe them out altogether. They're too restrained in that.
    I agree.

    But just I said, because of addons, Blizzard has no movitation to improve its default UI.

    The combat info tab has always existed in default UI. But they are extremely awful and inefficient and remains the same for years.

    And the existence of 3rd party damage meter remove Blizzard’s incentive improve its own.

  5. #65
    Stood in the Fire Valette's Avatar
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    Removing all addons would atleast make me stop playing the game, as several of my favorite things to do in this game revolves around the use of addons. If they can find a way to limit the need for addons in raid encounters, sure, I couldnt care less. But solving that problem by throwing out addons as a whole is just a lazy approach, that for many will do more harm than good.

  6. #66
    I came back to raiding after 6 years and i was shocked how terrible weak aura dominating the game! I believe the addons should be for ui customisation and probably after introducing their ui I will stop using many of my addons.

  7. #67
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendo Kusai View Post
    I think we can find a balance between molten core and current raiding, yes raids might becomes a bit easier but is that a bad thing?
    More people would simply be able to participate and complete them.
    The thing is they wouldn't become much easier. Some fights would remain the same.
    Or, from another perspective, if someone thinks a team of Mythic Raiders can't beat current tier using only the equivalent of a FFXIV dps meter, they are underestimating those players and overestimating what a weak aura does.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendo Kusai View Post
    I think we can find a balance between molten core and current raiding, yes raids might becomes a bit easier but is that a bad thing?
    More people would simply be able to participate and complete them.
    We have 4 different modes, a lot of people who raid Mythic likes how difficult the fights are. If you want to experience a raid in an easier way, well.. there is LFR and Normal.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Everyone understood, I'm saying that addons aren't causing the things you mentioned and if you removed then the situation would remain the same.
    Yes the high end guilds would adapt, but the rest of the player base would no longer be required to do all this extra stuff.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Being able to get feedback on your performance allows you to improve your performance. Being able to shave and polish at what you're doing is fun and being able to perform better might have prevented that 1% wipe on a boss your guild hasn't cleared yet.

    Less finnicky; the dps meters also teach inexperienced players how to play the game. It doesn't just show flat numbers, it shows what abilities contribute to the score, and it shows how that distribution for other players. Which means that players can learn from each other, and instruct how to do things better.

    In short DPS meters improve not just an individual player's skill, they also make the game a more social affair. DPS meters should be part of the stock content.
    Idk if you realize this but you’re really just making my point.

    You’re admitting people are fixating and obsessing over something that is not objectively crucial to the game. This addon, just like you said, is only there to make the game easier for you. And in return blizzard sees this and is forced to design its systems around these addons that make the game easier for you. So now you create a scenario where if you are just playing the game normally, you’re at a disadvantage.

    Blizzard could create a training ground type area where you can practice your rotations where it will tell you damage outputs just like it works in lost ark. But having the actual damage meter for a raid is completely, and entirely, unnecessary and only breeds toxic outcomes in the community.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    The thing is they wouldn't become much easier. Some fights would remain the same.
    Or, from another perspective, if someone thinks a team of Mythic Raiders can't beat current tier using only the equivalent of a FFXIV dps meter, they are underestimating those players and overestimating what a weak aura does.
    If this is true then why are you dodging my question?

    Ian specifically said they designed the fights *around* these addons. What do you think he meant by that? Like if you had to take a wild in the dark guess, and you were sitting in the room when they were designing a fight… what do you think they would change or stay away from specifically because of addons.

  11. #71
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashblond View Post
    Addons have been a big part of WoW since the beginning. But it is time for us to look into its negative impacts.

    - For hardcores

    The recent WF races are no longer just a competition of game skills, but also a competition of which guild can write best codes and addons. RWF is in game and irl gold sink. It is working a full time job instead of a playing a game.

    It is not surprising at all that more and more hardcore raiding guilds stopped or disbanded. And this trend will continue.

    - For casuals

    I have to agree some streamers have said already: raiding is too hard. It is already hard to find people, form a group and organize a raid for casuals. Then the raids are significantly harder and harder over the years. It is just not fun for casual raiding.

    One of the big reason is the addon. Ion said in recently interview, Blizzard has to make the encounters harder and harder, because combat addons are more and more intelligent. This is just a vicious circle.

    - For Blizzard

    Players shall not be dependant on third party addons to play a game. Basic addons like UI customization, damage meter, coord, should be integrated in the game itself.

    Blizzard’s decision to add voice chat, UI, mouse over, M+ rating, item level, etc. is a good direction. But it is not enough. We need more basic functions included in default settings.

    And the removal of combat addons like DBM will certainly make encounter design more creative.

    - For everyone

    Nobody loves to download, upgrade, set their addons all the time on every computer he plays WoW. It is just a hassle and it should not be necessary.

    The recent Overwolf and WoWup issue shows again how messy third parties are, from curse to twitch to wowup to overwolf to whatever in the future. Players don’t deserve this.

    - For addon developers

    It is great that you make a career and money from making useful addons. But for the greater good of the game and players, this has to stop.

    In sum, Blizzard, it is time to improve wow default settings and ban ALL addons.
    I am guessing this idea is built on the knowledge of FFXIV's ban, which isn't really addons but they just finally realized that permitting people to freely mod the game wasn't that good an idea.

    As for WoW, not sure there are any addons in need of banning unless there are still dungeon route addons (for M+), the raid mechanic organization too (The one where you can designate locations for people with zone colours, etc), and... The rest I could list have already been banned.

    DBM, I wouldn't touch, as it does permit more interesting boss fights.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    We have 4 different modes, a lot of people who raid Mythic likes how difficult the fights are. If you want to experience a raid in an easier way, well.. there is LFR and Normal.
    Yes but then I want to move to heroic to continue my character progression, its not necessarily about the difficulty of the fights, it simply makes the fights less fun.
    The moment I turn on dps meter and dbm I notice my enjoyment of the game simply drops, its as simple as that. But if you want to have any chance at being competitive you have to use them.

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer Skayth's Avatar
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    Ima be real. I hate mythic raiding right now. All fights are basically, one player fucks up, the raid wipes. As much as I can blame that the players are just getting really good... it's also the reliance on dbm and what not.

    I would rather go back to "one of ur team fucked up, well ur down 1 player, hope you have the dps/heals" instead of of you immediately wiped the raid.

    Mechanics are bonkers because they know we rely on such addons, so I'm at the point where yea... if it slightly nerfs the reliance on such things as well.

  14. #74

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Everyone understood, I'm saying that addons aren't causing the things you mentioned and if you removed then the situation would remain the same.
    I am not saying that WF mythic raiders don't have game skills or rely solely on addons.

    I specifically said "The recent WF races are no longer just a competition of game skills, but also a competition of which guild can write best codes and addons.

    I didn't say they can't be a boss without addon, since of course they will, given enough time and gear progression. But there is no denial that they emphasis a lot in making WA codes etc, because it can facilitate or streamline a lot of a complicated encounter.

    And I don't think players shall compete in non game related things to gain in game advantage. It should not be necessary. And a lot of basic functions shall simply be integrated into default UI.

    e.g. MDT - Mythic Dungeon Tool, or WA M+ % warning, They are just addons that tell you M+ trash % and route planning. How hard is it for Blizzard just to add a % on mob's nameplate in default M+ UI, instead of installing an addon?

    They are not mandatory, but always handy. And it is easy to be integrated into default UI.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by ashblond View Post
    I am not saying that WF mythic raiders don't have game skills or rely solely on addons.

    I specifically said "The recent WF races are no longer just a competition of game skills, but also a competition of which guild can write best codes and addons.

    I didn't say they can't be a boss without addon, since of course they will, given enough time and gear progression. But there is no denial that they emphasis a lot in making WA codes etc, because it can facilitate or streamline a lot of a complicated encounter.

    And I don't think players shall compete in non game related things to gain in game advantage. It should not be necessary. And a lot of basic functions shall simply be integrated into default UI.

    e.g. MDT - Mythic Dungeon Tool, or WA M+ % warning, They are just addons that tell you M+ trash % and route planning. How hard is it for Blizzard just to add a % on mob's nameplate in default M+ UI, instead of installing an addon?

    They are not mandatory, but always handy. And it is easy to be integrated into default UI.
    lmfao, my guy you can't even decide where you want to draw the line on add-ons. You're just gesturing aimlessly at things you don't like about the game and asking them to be removed. Get outta here.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Royru View Post
    Idk if you realize this but you’re really just making my point.

    You’re admitting people are fixating and obsessing over something that is not objectively crucial to the game. This addon, just like you said, is only there to make the game easier for you. And in return blizzard sees this and is forced to design its systems around these addons that make the game easier for you. So now you create a scenario where if you are just playing the game normally, you’re at a disadvantage.

    Blizzard could create a training ground type area where you can practice your rotations where it will tell you damage outputs just like it works in lost ark. But having the actual damage meter for a raid is completely, and entirely, unnecessary and only breeds toxic outcomes in the community.

    Navigating toxicity is also difficult. Learning to play without getting toxic over performance metrics is a skill as well, a valuable one at that.

    Or do you believe that difficulty through toxicity has a different quality to difficulty through obfuscation? And if you do, perhaps you can then also see why people believe that difficulty through obfuscation isn't a very interesting kind of difficulty either?

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I am guessing this idea is built on the knowledge of FFXIV's ban, which isn't really addons but they just finally realized that permitting people to freely mod the game wasn't that good an idea.

    As for WoW, not sure there are any addons in need of banning unless there are still dungeon route addons (for M+), the raid mechanic organization too (The one where you can designate locations for people with zone colours, etc), and... The rest I could list have already been banned.

    DBM, I wouldn't touch, as it does permit more interesting boss fights.
    I have never played FF14, so I don't know the situation about FF14 at all.

    It is just my personal experience and opinion that addons do more harm than good to WoW gradually.

  19. #79
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    lmfao, my guy you can't even decide where you want to draw the line on add-ons. You're just gesturing aimlessly at things you don't like about the game and asking them to be removed. Get outta here.
    Basically.

    Remove that imaginary "competition of which guild can write code" and it would still be a full time World First Race, but now with people sad that they can't customize their stuff with addons.

    OP also overestimates how the addon facilitates a complicated encounter - remove them and shit would remain as much complicated as before, and those pros will still beat it.

    It is a lot of misinformation, and it all comes from people having the misinformed idea that FFXIV lacks addons.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Skayth View Post
    Ima be real. I hate mythic raiding right now. All fights are basically, one player fucks up, the raid wipes. As much as I can blame that the players are just getting really good... it's also the reliance on dbm and what not.

    I would rather go back to "one of ur team fucked up, well ur down 1 player, hope you have the dps/heals" instead of of you immediately wiped the raid.

    Mechanics are bonkers because they know we rely on such addons, so I'm at the point where yea... if it slightly nerfs the reliance on such things as well.
    Yes exactly. It doesn't allow for the skill of players improvising after something went wrong in the fight, because nothing is allowed to go wrong in the fight. The most satisfying moments I can remember from WoW are those where something goes horribly wrong and the raid leader or even just any player intervenes and changes their role during the fight to compensate for that loss.

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