It is Time to Ban WoW Addons

[A Chozo]

Yes the high end guilds would adapt, but the rest of the player base would no longer be required to do all this extra stuff.

They already don't have to do all this extra stuff. People wiping on Normal Anduin will still wipe in a addon-less version of the fight because it is not the type of fight that would change without addons in the game.

[Royru]

Navigating toxicity is also difficult. Learning to play without getting toxic over performance metrics is a skill as well, a valuable one at that.

Or do you believe that difficulty through toxicity has a different quality to difficulty through obfuscation? And if you do, perhaps you can then also see why people believe that difficulty through obfuscation isn't a very interesting kind of difficulty either?

You can call it obfuscation but that’s generally what makes games difficult in the first place. Like if you walked into a brand new Zelda game and you instantly already had everything pointing you specifically in the direction on how to beat the game then yeah difficulty through obfuscation seems like a pretty good thing.

You are basically asking me “which is more fun, figuring out a game yourself or playing the game as it is explained to you”.

Yeah… I’ll take the figuring it out for 500 Alex

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They already don't have to do all this extra stuff. People wiping on Normal Anduin will still wipe in a addon-less version of the fight because it is not the type of fight that would change without addons in the game.

You keep repeating this, and I’m specifically asking you to explain yourself but you keep dodging the question.

When blizzard says the fights are designed around them, what do you think they are changing exactly?

I will keep calling this out as you keep bringing this up as if it’s so obvious.

If it’s so obvious then please enlighten me.

[A Chozo]

When blizzard says the fights are designed around them, what do you think they are changing exactly?

It means they try to avoid making mechanics that can be insta-solved by an addon.

What do you think it means? That the whole fight somehow gets overwhelmingly harder to compensate for addons, making the life of addon-less players harder? Nah, you probably have enough awareness to understand that this is not the case.

[Toby451]

Dont need to ban addons. They need to limit what API certain addons, AKA weak auras, can use. Mainly stop letting addons talk to one another in the background. Or perhaps disable it while in PvP/PvE specific zones so it still functions in the remainder of the game.



Anyone voting to block all addons are delusional, that is never going to happen. Not the type of never that classic was either. Actually never in a million years going to happen.

[Iain]

You can call it obfuscation but that’s generally what makes games difficult in the first place. Like if you walked into a brand new Zelda game and you instantly already had everything pointing you specifically in the direction on how to beat the game then yeah difficulty through obfuscation seems like a pretty good thing.

You are basically asking me “which is more fun, figuring out a game yourself or playing the game as it is explained to you”.

Yeah… I’ll take the figuring it out for 500 Alex

Then why keep the joy of figuring out how not to be toxic over performance meters from players?

[Royru]

It means they try to avoid making mechanics that can be insta-solved by an addon.

What do you think it means? That the whole fight somehow gets overwhelmingly harder to compensate for addons, making the life of addon-less players harder? Nah, you probably have enough awareness to understand that this is not the case.

So if you were to let’s say…. Ignore addons when designing a fight, and an addon “insta-solved” it. Would you say that fight would have been… idk the word I’m looking for… easier?

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Then why keep the joy of figuring out how not to be toxic over performance meters from players?

I’m pretty sure you’re just trolling at this point. This is such a silly question.

[A Chozo]

Dont need to ban addons. They need to limit what API certain addons, AKA weak auras, can use. Mainly stop letting addons talk to one another in the background. Or perhaps disable it while in PvP/PvE specific zones so it still functions in the remainder of the game.

I think this is the core of what Ion said in one interview: Buff-tracking is the big thing that addons are doing currently that help solve mechanics. They show that information differently, and allow you to put counters, marks or other things based on the buff' status or the player it's currently on.

Remove that buff-tracking function and they stop being "powerful" but at the same time you nuke almost all combat-relevant addons.

[Accendor]

Hahahahahahahahaha no

Banning addons will literally be the end of the game.

[Caprias]

OP is so fucking full of misinformation it's borderline trolling.

You are grossly overestimating the role of addons in raiding. Think it through, genius:

Raids won't become easier because addons aren't required to beat those boss - it's just information being shown differently. The bulk of the job is still skill-related. Lots of players love their addons, even in God-favored FFXIV - ACT, plugins and what else. It's just that it's an easier game so they don't influence much. And what the fuck is that thing about people setting up addons in lots of computers? Almost no one does that. Regular players don't keep jumping from machine to machine.

Remove the Weak Auras and the pro players will simply adapt and perform mostly the same. The raids won't become magically easier because those pros can and will achieve excellence with or without addons. Your scrubby ass will still be kept out of the good groups because it's a skill issue happening in the interface between your keyboard and your chair.

There are a billion arguments against addons and yet you managed to fabricate some from your ass.

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They do have addons. Mods, plugins and what else. Even a DPS meter with parsing. You just can't talk about it ingame and stream yourself using it like a knob.

World first raiders are even saying it's becoming too much.
A Chozo: "listen here you lil shit"

Topkek comedy on mmoc again.

[A Chozo]

So if you were to let’s say…. Ignore addons when designing a fight, and an addon “insta-solved” it. Would you say that fight would have been… idk the word I’m looking for… easier?

yes, which is why most fights don't get insta-solved by addons - you still need the skill to do the mechanic.

Or maybe you do know of an addon that's carrying players around - if so, post it here so we can get free CE to all guilds.

[Royru]

World first raiders are even saying it's becoming too much.
A Chozo: "listen here you lil shit"

Topkek comedy on mmoc again.

Yeah but top raiders actually don’t know what they are talking about, they don’t even understand how addons work in raids

/s

[Eosia]

They won't ban addons. Sorry to burst your bubble (not sorry), but the backlash would make NoFlyNoSub back in WoD look like a minor blip in comparison. Just like flight, the addon genie is well out of the bottle and it is not going back in.

Blizzard will continue to break addons that it sees fit to such as the Augmented Virtual Reality mod that was in Wrath up until Patch 3.3.5 when Blizzard removed the ability for 3rd party addons.

The ONLY way they could get away with it is if DBM, WeakAuras, etc. are baked into the game. And they're not going to do that. People are still mad the Visual Range Meter got broken in Legion.

[Royru]

yes, which is why most fights don't get insta-solved by addons - you still need the skill to do the mechanic.

Or maybe you do know of an addon that's carrying players around - if so, post it here so we can get free CE to all guilds.

I need you to walk through this with me alright? All the things besides the final point you have agreed with me on

1. Blizzard designs fights around addons
2. They do this because the addons can insta solve the fights
3. Having them insta solve the fights would make the fights easier
4. They have to make the fights ‘harder’ in order to get around this possibility

So the final point is clearly, the fights would be easier if blizzard didn’t design around the addons, which means the fights would be easier without addons.

I’m truly not sure how you aren’t connecting these dots.

[Iain]

I’m pretty sure you’re just trolling at this point. This is such a silly question.

I asked you to clarify the distinction between the difficulty of navigating obfuscation and the difficulty of navigating of toxicity.

You can say that obfuscation is part of the gameplay, but so is the social aspect and having to deal with competition from your peers.

Or, if you don't like to wade into the obfuscation vs toxicity issue, if you only want to make it about the virtues of obfuscation, then why not remove the combat log and the damage numbers as well and let the players estimate how much damage each ability does?

If you call these questions absurd, then great that means you're drawing a line somewhere, but where?

[Relapses]

World first raiders are even saying it's becoming too much.
A Chozo: "listen here you lil shit"

Topkek comedy on mmoc again.

The complaints WF raiders have about the escalation of add-on/WA complexity is more of an encounter design issue than an "add-ons exist" issue as the OP has suggested repeatedly. Blizzard can design encounters which don't require an entire suite of full-time WA authors to be on standby.

[Lochton]

I have never played FF14, so I don't know the situation about FF14 at all.

Basically, FFXIV is banning mods until they know how to handle the right ones from the wrong ones.

It is just my personal experience and opinion that addons do more harm than good to WoW gradually.

Considering from the perspective of someone who has been a raider, PvP, and is a roleplayer, I wouldn't say all addons harm the game.

[Iain]

The complaints WF raiders have about the escalation of add-on/WA complexity is more of an encounter design issue than an "add-ons exist" issue as the OP has suggested repeatedly. Blizzard can design encounters which don't require an entire suite of full-time WA authors to be on standby.

Right but the addons rob Blizzard of tools for designing encounters by making certain mechanics trivial. All Blizzard needs to do here is destroying that level of functionality from the addons. Best of all, Blizzard can even vary the amount addons function on an encounter by encounter basis. Maybe some bosses allow cooldown timers, maybe some of them don't. Blizzard has that level of discretion.

[Royru]

I asked you to clarify the distinction between the difficulty of navigating obfuscation and the difficulty of navigating of toxicity.

You can say that obfuscation is part of the gameplay, but so is the social aspect and having to deal with competition from your peers.

Or, if you don't like to wade into the obfuscation vs toxicity issue, if you only want to make it about the virtues of obfuscation, then why not remove the combat log and the damage numbers as well and let the players estimate how much damage each ability does?

If you call these questions absurd, then great that means you're drawing a line somewhere, but where?

Because your question makes no sense as there is no connection between the two. Toxicity isn’t a gameplay feature. It isn’t designed into the game. That’s absolutely ludicrous to even start going down that conversation because it’s meaningless.

Just because I said addons like this can breed toxicity doesn’t instantly mean toxicity is now a part of a game’s design and now we must compare it to gameplay features. That’s ridiculous.

And if I’m being completely and totally honest, combat logs aren’t that big of a deal either. I understand when you say something like that to someone who has never played an mmo outside of wow they can’t even believe someone said this… but combat logs specifically are whatever.

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The complaints WF raiders have about the escalation of add-on/WA complexity is more of an encounter design issue than an "add-ons exist" issue as the OP has suggested repeatedly. Blizzard can design encounters which don't require an entire suite of full-time WA authors to be on standby.

But that’s the entire point. The addons make fights easier, blizzard wants to make the fights hard, they make the fights more difficult specifically because of the addons, people have to make new addons in order to make those fights easier.

Keep rinse and repeating and you get bloated overwhelming boss designs that are impossible without them.

[deenman]

a blanket banning of addons is the most stupid idea any1 could come up with in regards to wow

yes,usualy addons exist because of the games shortcomings,and yes blizzard has adressed some of these over the years,but they cant adress ALL,addons have to exist

some addons should be removed that basicaly tell you how to play,like the many hellfire citadel addons for bosses,and those were removed anyways

[Kiria]

i really cant be arsed with mods, I use the absolute bare minimum these days as I find mods incredibly boring as soon as I install one a few days later I have to update the F****r and I don't get much time to play as is, mods im currently running ingame are out of date, I dont want to install one of those shitty 3rd party launchers and honestly some mods have made the community extremely toxic, RIO anyone?

I dont bother with much of the multiplayer content because of this anymore, it's just too much hassle.

So I would love to see all mods absolutely abandoned but thats my opinion.