Hoofed races can't stealth

[cparle87]

I was under the belief they were unable to be turned undead as Worgen, unless something I've missed? As that is what lore states through the quests in-game, and thus, the Worgen Death Knights weren't started as undead but slowly consumed by it.

The val'kyr lost a lot of power after Arthas was killed. With him around they could, after he died they couldn't. That's why in the Silverpine storyline the survivors from Hillsbrad deliberately took the curse to protect themselves.

[Thestrawman]

Likely a description of game mechanics. Also: do druids use shadow magic to stealth in cat form?

Yeah! How could a magical druid capable of magically shapeshifting into several different creatures and a tree be capable of magically making themselves invisible.

Checkmate Atheists.

[Lochton]

The val'kyr lost a lot of power after Arthas was killed. With him around they could, after he died they couldn't. That's why in the Silverpine storyline the survivors from Hillsbrad deliberately took the curse to protect themselves.

That part I knew.

but now we're at a stage with no Lich King artifacts. Isn't Worgen then more protected from undeath now?

[Dastreus]

bruh rogues don't even use physical stealth in lore. they use shadow magic.

[cparle87]

That part I knew.

but now we're at a stage with no Lich King artifacts. Isn't Worgen then more protected from undeath now?

Well, for the Cataclysm through BFA eras you'd be correct. However as of Shadowlands from what I've read the most recent death knights, to explain Blizz's decision to allow the class to all races, are that there were people approached Bolvar to be willingly changed into death knights for the power to protect Azeroth. Could be he can turn anyone who's willing as opposed to not or dead and unknowing.

[Sarkli83]

So a tauren feral druid doesn't exist?

[Nerovar]

Yeah! How could a magical druid capable of magically shapeshifting into several different creatures and a tree be capable of magically making themselves invisible.

Checkmate Atheists.

If it's all just magic and has nothing do to with your physical form and actually being sneaky then why can they only stealth in cat form?

[Hitei]

Likely a description of game mechanics. Also: do druids use shadow magic to stealth in cat form?

Yes? It isn't just sneaking. It has never been just sneaking. Like, you do realize that Shadowmeld is also explicitly a stealth effect, not an invisibility effect, and is a magical power from Elune, right?

I also enjoy that you totally ignored me pointing out that rogues do use magic in Vanilla, and even more magic in TBC.

If it's all just magic and has nothing do to with your physical form and actually being sneaky then why can they only stealth in cat form?

Why can they only dash in cat form and growl and roar in bear form? Despite bears and people being able to dash, and cats and people being able to growl or roar? Spells being form-locked doesn't mean that the other forms are incapable of doing that same thing, it means Blizzard decided that ability was relegated to a specific form. If you want a specific lore resolution for why druids are unable to use same shadow magic in other forms, it's because the magic itself is tied to taking on that cat aspect, much like the magic that lets them innately know where all nearby humanoids are.

[terminaltrip421]

aren't there "broken" that can stealth? also tauren stealthing as druids is still tauren stealthing.

that said I have no idea what this argument is about..?

[cocomen2]

If it's all just magic and has nothing do to with your physical form and actually being sneaky then why can they only stealth in cat form?

"GAMEPLAY LIMITATIONS"- to make CAT form unique parody on rogue, since whole druid thing is Jack of all trades but master of none.

What if you were able to use Dash+Stealth and all paw/claw skills in bear form..... why even use Cat form then, if all it's skills can be used in Bear form?

[Biomega]

I don't see meese in the woods able to do triple backflips, vault rooftop to rooftop, and escape hordes of soldiers trying to catch them.

I don't see humans doing that, either.

I can IMAGINE humans doing it. But I can also imagine tauren doing it.

Don't pretend like this isn't a case of ignoring real-life physics for one race, and suddenly protesting because it's not rigorously applied for another.

[Lolites]

Please name a single classic rogue spell or talent that mentions the use of magic.

absence of proof is not proof of absence, frostbolt description doesnt mention magic, do you think mages just have very cold hands?

You need to demonstrate why the assumptions is wrong.

ehm... no? you said its not magical, you need to prove that you are right, not others that you are wrong... its called burden of proof, look it up...

The game actually also distinguishes mechanically between stealth and a mage's invisibility.

sure it works differently, its most likely based on different type of magic, but thank you for pointing out mages can turn invisible using magic without ANY sneaking abilities whatsoever, completely destroying your own argument... good work

On a side note: do feral druids use shadow magic to sneak as well? And can they only use that shadow magic while transformed into a cat?

druids, who use magic to do literaly everything including transforming into said cat? yeah, its pretty reasonable to assume they also use magic to turn invisible... why would it have to be shadow magic though? you can use the same (or similar) spels by gaining power from different sources... as you pointed out (still makes me laugh how you destroyed your own argument) with mages having invisibility... also hunters too afaik...

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Lmfao wtf is this thread

in a jist, bunch of "old" guys yelling "no, change is BAD!!" and people telling them the change is not even new

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Likely a description of game mechanics. Also: do druids use shadow magic to stealth in cat form?

so he literaly proved you wrong, but you double down with "nah im still right despite having nothing but my opinion and assumptions"
damn, it really is pointless trying to argue with you, you just put fingers in your ears and yell "change is bad!"...

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aren't there "broken" that can stealth? also tauren stealthing as druids is still tauren stealthing.

that said I have no idea what this argument is about..?

there are also tauren (grimtotem) and drenei rogues at least since cata...
its just bunch of people yelling how they dont like changes

[terminaltrip421]

are they opening up DH to the other evles? cause that might warrant a sub.

[Lolites]

are they opening up DH to the other evles? cause that might warrant a sub.

afaik they want all race/class combo, but not right away, they wanted to make some lore (possibly some q lines) excusing some wilder combos, in 10,0 we get all races rogue mage and priest i believe

[Nerovar]

Why can they only dash in cat form and growl and roar in bear form? Despite bears and people being able to dash, and cats and people being able to growl or roar? Spells being form-locked doesn't mean that the other forms are incapable of doing that same thing, it means Blizzard decided that ability was relegated to a specific form. If you want a specific lore resolution for why druids are unable to use same shadow magic in other forms, it's because the magic itself is tied to taking on that cat aspect, much like the magic that lets them innately know where all nearby humanoids are.

Why do you think they chose the cat form and NOT the bear form for stealthing? Might it be the same reason why they didn't allow Tauren to be rogues?

[Hitei]

Why do you think they chose the cat form and NOT the bear form for stealthing? Might it be the same reason why they didn't allow Tauren to be rogues?

Because bear was built to be a fucking tank and cat was built to mimic rogues.

As amusing as it is watching you ignore all the points being made to keep attempting really dumb deflections into tangential arguments, and watching you try really, really hard to dance away from your whole original "rOgUeS aReN't MaGiC!!!!" point that was proven objectively wrong---I really have no interest in continuing to humor your constant side-stepping just because you feel the desperate need to save face after doubling down too many times on bad points.

So I guess enjoy continuing to be really angry about this very reasonable addition.

[Santti]

Of course Tauren can stealth. How else would you explain the fact that we've never seen Tauren Rogues?

[vian]

A person could not possibly vanish from sight in an open field with no cover or concealment of any kind. THAT MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE.

Fixed it for you

You missed the joke, that's what you did.

[Nerovar]

Because bear was built to be a fucking tank and cat was built to mimic rogues.

Why was the cat chosen to mimic rogues and not the bear?

[RobertMugabe]

afaik they want all race/class combo, but not right away, they wanted to make some lore (possibly some q lines) excusing some wilder combos, in 10,0 we get all races rogue mage and priest i believe

That's just not true. Never ever have they said or indicated anything like that lol.

The said that they want all races to be able to be warriors, priest, rogue and hunters, which was already the case besides rogues.

Don't expect DH's to be available to all classes, ever, though.

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Why was the cat chosen to mimic rogues and not the bear?

Not sure if trolling, but here you go:
It's because lore-wise, the feral wild gods, such as Ashmane had this magical ability to do so and the bears had other traits. It's simple as that, physical appearance has never been a reason why something can stealth, as stealth and prowling are magical abilities. Thought this was pretty obvious...

Tauren not being rogues for so long was never because of their physical form, but it's because they didn't want every race to be every class back then (except warrior), purely for gameplay reasons(now they do the opposite, for the same reason). There have been tauren rogue enemies and npc's since vanilla.