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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Wait. So what you are telling me, is that if i grab 100 random people from around the world. There is guaranteed 1-2 transgenders and 10 people identifying as part of the lgbt? There is simply no way i can get 100 random people from the billions who aren't trans or "some brand of gay" as you put it?

    Every group of 10 people must have 1 lgbt person in it based on the numbers i gave ?

    Then explain to me why my family, of over 30 people doesn't have a single one?

    And no my friend. I am not the one it painfully matters to. That's you adding your own narrative to what i wrote. I posted a comment to a post where this is the subject. I was making a point. And rage posting? There is simply no way you could have determined if i were rageposting or not, as you don't know me. you don't know my writing style, my language barriers or difficulties in convaying words. All parts of the complete picture and how sentences get portrayed
    Looking at you nice fella, if you get along well with your family on a political level, the probability is that any lgbtiq+ person related to you wouldn't come out to you.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    It's not really. But calling for people to lose their jobs because of a passion project they were working on isn't exactly right either.
    I mean, if over the 5 years they failed to realize the ethical issue of assigning numbers to various human traits in their quest to produce some sort of human social credit score, I do think some of the stakeholders behind it should not be really holding those stakes.

    It's like a glimpse into the bright and glorious future, where everyone will be slapped a number and meaning behind it and worth will be decided by some automated system. It will come, because humanity can't help itself. But it's not something that should be easily obliged because it's a side "passion project".
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Yagsdom View Post
    I’m not even joking when I say I think AI generated characters would probably work better than what this PoS tool is. From what it sounds like someone could have made an amazing character by everyone’s admission, but then they have to put that character into this fucking tool that someone created and it will shoot out a “diversity positive score” and if it doesn’t meet the criteria then what? They have to completely rewrite and change everything about that character? So the only thing this will be is take unique characters, and actively ruin them through wokeness.

    If you want to be diverse, then just be diverse. It is possible to say “I feel like we aren’t representing the Middle East very well, let’s brainstorm a new character”. But no instead we must put characters into a fucking diversity generator.
    I think like with every tool, it depends on how you interact with it. I think it can be a great way to show in which regards your cast in its entirety is already pretty diverse while showing directions in which its lacking, which can inspire devs to come up with characters that fill that gap.

  4. #264
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoSe7eN View Post
    Despite the fact TLOU2 sold well has nothing to do with the obvious backlash it got for it's content. Yea it sold well before players found out how controversial it was. Like any game. Wasn't Shadowlands one of the highest wow expansions sold to-date? Yet it is now seen as the worst expansion to date.

    You see where I'm going with this? Stop treating people like idiots or assuming they don't know what they are talking about. Check your facts first before presenting a dumb argument.
    The back lash started before the game was even released because of leaks and it still sold great.

    In its release weekend, The Last of Us Part II sold over four million copies worldwide, becoming the fastest-selling PlayStation 4 exclusive, beating Marvel's Spider-Man's 3.3 million and God of War's 3.1 million in the same period.[138][139] It had the biggest launch of 2020 for both physical and digital sales.[140] On the PlayStation Store, it was the most-downloaded PlayStation 4 game in North America and Europe in June;[141] in July, it was fifth in North America and tenth in Europe;[142] in November, it was the eighth in North America and seventh in Europe;[143] and overall for 2020, it ranked sixth in North America and eighth in Europe.[144] In the United States, it was the best-selling game of June 2020 and became the third-best-selling game of the year within two weeks, generating the highest first-month sales of the year.[145] By August 2020, it had become the third-highest-grossing PlayStation game in the United States, behind Marvel's Spider-Man and God of War.[146] Overall, it was the sixth-best-selling game of the year in the United States;[147] it was the third-best-selling for PlayStation consoles, and the best-selling PlayStation 4-only game.[148]

    In the United Kingdom, The Last of Us Part II became the fastest-selling physical PlayStation 4 game, outselling previous record holder Uncharted 4 by at least one percent and The Last of Us by 76 percent;[149] it was the nation's eighth-best-selling game of the year with 543,218 copies sold,[150] and the seventh for physical sales.[151] A price discount in February 2021 saw it re-enter the UK physical charts in third place, representing a 3,992 percent increase.[152] In Japan, The Last of Us Part II was the best-selling game during its first week, selling an estimated 178,696 physical copies.[153] In Germany, it sold over 200,000 copies in June 2020[154] and 500,000 by December 2020.[155] In Australia, it was the eighth-best-selling of the year, and the third for physical sales.[156]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_Us_Part_II

    No matter how you slice it no matter how much you dislike the game it still did incredibly well.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-05-14 at 04:39 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #265
    “By your own stats, 1 in 10 people are some brand of gay. Do most movies, tv shows and games not have 10 people?”

    Most movies are not about sex and deviations (if we exclude pornhub and such), therefore they should not mention deviations - or absence thereof - at all.

  6. #266
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drudi View Post
    “By your own stats, 1 in 10 people are some brand of gay. Do most movies, tv shows and games not have 10 people?”

    Most movies are not about sex and deviations (if we exclude pornhub and such), therefore they should not mention deviations - or absence thereof - at all.
    "most shows are not about sex"
    1. do you think being gay is only about sex?
    2. uhh what? idk what shows you are watching but like i would say 99% of shows have SOME sort of relationship SOMEWHERE a mom and a dad, a boy and his girl crush, why is it suddenly "some brand of gay" if one of those just happens to be a gay couple?

  7. #267
    Brewmaster Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    why dont you lose your shit when a show has 100% heterosexual couples?but when a show with a cast of 100+ has ONE queer couple,you lot lose your minds and call it forced automaticaly,what is even the difference in your mind from a natural one vs a forced one?i would love to have your amazing instict and queer detection skils
    Fucking chill out dude, seriously. No one is "losing their shit" except you here. You already admitted openly that companies are constantly partaking of tokenism while simultaneously trying to protect the idea of these people getting representation. The entire point is that plenty of media exists where being gay or trans or whatever is a major plot point of the story and it works. There is plenty of media where being straight is the focal point of the story and it works.

    Now to be precise for the 10th time, what people don't like is that this shit is being pushed into places where it shouldn't be brought up in the first place. People aren't playing shooters so they can deeply follow the love interests and gender identity of the characters. Plenty of people hate when these shows bring in straight relationships as well, just look at how many people hated the fabricated straight love interest added to the hobbit movies. The Hobbit never really focused on sex, it's a high fantasy novel. I've tried to make this explicitly clear, nerds don't like ERP fanfiction being shoehorned into games/movies that they care about. If I wanted sex in my game there are whole genres about that where it actually matters.

    I want to repeat what I said in my first post on this topic as well. I'd be happy if any of this ever passed the sniff test. I almost never see these token character put in as normal people that can make mistakes or be evil. We get a caricature of what they think gay or trans people represent that often gets put on a pedestal for being so stunning and brave. The tropes are so engrained that people literally change their voice so they can sound gay, as if all gay people sound a certain way. How do you find this stereotypical nonsense acceptable?

  8. #268
    Master of the Void The Dark One's Avatar
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    My only contribution to this thread is already clearly stated in my signature.

    Why can't people just live, and let live. Honestly, if I as a gay man can put up with straight people nonsense in literally everything I touch, then maybe y'all can just suck it up and deal with the odd gay person/couple every now and then hmmm? Unless of course, there's a problem with that?
    Fundamental civil rights are only "political" if you're trying to take them away from people.

  9. #269
    “do you think being gay is only about sex?”

    My point is, if the story/movie/game is not about sex, then it should not mention AT ALL any sex-related features, such as emphasizing wherever a certain character is or is not a sexual deviant.

    I mean, the concept is very simple to grasp: if I want to hire a designer, I would look at the professional features and that’s it. I wouldn’t want to know about their food or sex preference. I don’t care to the point this information is just irrelecant. Same for games etc.

    “SOMEWHERE a mom and a dad, a boy and his girl crush, why is it suddenly "some brand of gay" if one of those just happens to be a gay couple?”

    A boy and girl crush and “just happen to be a gay couple”, how do you even imagine that?

    I mean, family relationship is fine and are quite often part of the story. But there is absolutely no need to shift the focus and add unnecessary details.

    Take the red riding hood tale. Was she lesbian or not? Was she disabled? What ethnicity she had? It does not matter because THE STORY IS NOT ABOUT IT! Even putting such matters in the table is a pure sign of utter stupidity. Please don’t.

  10. #270
    Master of the Void The Dark One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    I want to repeat what I said in my first post on this topic as well. I'd be happy if any of this ever passed the sniff test. I almost never see these token character put in as normal people that can make mistakes or be evil. We get a caricature of what they think gay or trans people represent that often gets put on a pedestal for being so stunning and brave. The tropes are so engrained that people literally change their voice so they can sound gay, as if all gay people sound a certain way. How do you find this stereotypical nonsense acceptable?
    This is a whole other problem. But one I'd rather have to deal with than no representation at all.
    Fundamental civil rights are only "political" if you're trying to take them away from people.

  11. #271
    “if I as a gay man can put up with straight people nonsense in literally everything I touch, then maybe y'all can just suck it up and deal with the odd gay person/couple every now and then hmmm?”

    I don’t know and don’t want to know about your sexual preferences - not until I start considering you as a potential sexual partner. Is is really THAT hard to understand and to refrain from attaching this shit to every non-sex-related aspect of regular life?

    It’s like the meme with vegans informing everyone “by the way I’m a vegan” at every opportunity; no thank you, we don’t want to know (unless we’re ordering food for you), keep it to yourself please.

  12. #272
    Brewmaster Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    "most shows are not about sex"
    1. do you think being gay is only about sex?
    2. uhh what? idk what shows you are watching but like i would say 99% of shows have SOME sort of relationship SOMEWHERE a mom and a dad, a boy and his girl crush, why is it suddenly "some brand of gay" if one of those just happens to be a gay couple?
    1:As a gay man, being gay is definitely only about the sex. Are you trying to imply that someone can be gay without a sexual attraction to the same sex?
    2: There are 2 reasons for this. Firstly is because Hollywood has basically mandated that you MUST add these "marginalized groups" to every show. Secondly because the implementation is always awkward, feels unnatural to the setting, or plays off stereotypes of what California liberals think all gay people look and act like.

  13. #273
    This sounds so interesting and creative. What an ingenious tool. I recall something similar in paper form back in college. It was used for writing prompts and identifying narrative tropes and story beats. My professor at the time was talking about Vonnegut’s Shape of Stories concept and there was some interesting application of the exercise in how we identified narrative fallbacks in creative writing.

    What a genius idea.

  14. #274
    While it may work it feels like a diss towards writers, and I wonder how they feel about this tool.

    And just to be clear, diversity is good.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  15. #275
    Brewmaster Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark One View Post
    This is a whole other problem. But one I'd rather have to deal with than no representation at all.
    Why do you need to feel represented? What the fuck does this even mean? I'm gay and I don't feel represented at all by the portrayal of gay people in media.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    1:As a gay man, being gay is definitely only about the sex. Are you trying to imply that someone can be gay without a sexual attraction to the same sex?
    2: There are 2 reasons for this. Firstly is because Hollywood has basically mandated that you MUST add these "marginalized groups" to every show. Secondly because the implementation is always awkward, feels unnatural to the setting, or plays off stereotypes of what California liberals think all gay people look and act like.
    While there are gay manerism, there's plenty of gay people that you would never know are gay until they say their sexual preference.

    Aka Top and Bottoms. (Most Tops are more "Male" centric, i dont know how to say that without a deep explanation of it).

    So the dude was wrong and you're right.

  17. #277
    Master of the Void The Dark One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drudi View Post
    I don’t know and don’t want to know about your sexual preferences - not until I start considering you as a potential sexual partner. Is is really THAT hard to understand and to refrain from attaching this shit to every non-sex-related aspect of regular life?

    It’s like the meme with vegans informing everyone “by the way I’m a vegan” at every opportunity; no thank you, we don’t want to know (unless we’re ordering food for you), keep it to yourself please.
    Did you honestly just compare something as fundamental as human sexuality to a dietary preference?

    Good luck with removing human nature from your everyday life. Have you looked into the Amish lifestyle?
    Fundamental civil rights are only "political" if you're trying to take them away from people.

  18. #278
    I'm going to say "a point seems to have been missed somehere in the process," and back quietly out of this thread.

  19. #279
    “Did you honestly just compare something as fundamental as human sexuality to a dietary preference?”

    Fundamental or not, it’s the same thing, just different magnitude. I don’t care and don’t want to know about a person’s dietary preference unless something that I do involves their diet therefore I must know. I don’t care and don’t want to know about a persons disabilities or absense thereof, unless something that I do requires knowing that. Same for sex preferences. Same for literally every other feature you might think of, protected or not.

    Really really simple concept. I don’t tell anyone about my defecations - simply because they don’t NEED to know. And yes the example is disgusting for a purpose - as some people might find similar details, just about some different features, in the same way disgusting. So don’t push it because nobody needs to know.

    Except for a doctor who is analyzing a certain condition.

  20. #280
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    This sort of crap makes me laugh, especially growing up in the era where we had token characters that were actually good (ya know, shows like Hey Arnold and Recess?). Honestly, entertainment has regressed so hard when it comes to character development and writing quality in the last decade because these DE&I activists have basically invaded every facet of entertainment and their complete lack of vision and talent is why all the characters now are literally just Token Black from South Park with zero fleshing out and no personality, or they are all Mary Sue/Gary Stu types.

    Thanks for proving us right that DE&I is nothing more than about tokenism and checking boxes. Also, for the majority of games, a characters background doesn't mean shit. Unless it's entirely story driven with character development and a plot, games like CoD and Overwatch having any shred of diversity doesn't mean jack shit.

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