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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    So we should all be accepting of other people's differences now? That didn't seem to be the case with you.
    IDK why I would need to sit here and explain the difference between accepting things that are intrinsic to a person's being is not the same as accepting ideas and opinions that are from the jump bigoted and based in either fear, hatred or shame. but here I am, explaining it to people I assume are old enough to pay their own taxes...
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2022-05-14 at 07:21 PM.

  2. #302
    So it's a tool where you can put in your characters backround and it tells you, wether you build something unique and interesting or a just the next version of "the kind hearted healer girl" or "black brawler dude with a heart of gold" or whatever other trope you can come up with?

    Sounds unbelievably harmless?
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
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  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by owbu View Post
    So it's a tool where you can put in your characters backround and it tells you, wether you build something unique and interesting or a just the next version of "the kind hearted healer girl" or "black brawler dude with a heart of gold" or whatever other trope you can come up with?

    Sounds unbelievably harmless?
    King hearted healer girl and black brawler with heart of gold would still come out in this with a fair few points depending.

    This IS NOT about making something uninque. It DOES NOT avoid tropes.
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  4. #304
    So the max score would be, what, a 60 years old poor pansexual mentally handicapped part-African part-Latino transwoman from Mongolia with lots of body fat? That's the ideal character, and the rest of the game can now be made of gruff straight white dudes in their 30's with buzzcuts?

    This isn't progressive. It's cynical rainbow capitalism. I don't much care if it was made on the order of some disconnected suits or employees with their heads up their own ass during free time. It's deeply stupid either way.
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  5. #305
    High Overlord PsychoSe7eN's Avatar
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    Look, keep this woke shit out of our games. Being politically correct or "represented" in games does not work. It's been fine the way it was for years. That disgusting hateful woke hit does not belong in our games.

    You wanna be represented in video games? Make your own fucking game. Or go play DnD. Enough is enough. We play games to escape reality and enjoy games. Not make a statement about someone's feelings being hurt.
    Last edited by PsychoSe7eN; 2022-05-15 at 01:06 AM.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Honestly, entertainment has regressed so hard when it comes to character development and writing quality in the last decade because these DE&I activists have basically invaded every facet of entertainment and their complete lack of vision and talent is why all the characters now are literally just Token Black from South Park with zero fleshing out and no personality, or they are all Mary Sue/Gary Stu types.
    Hey, he is calledspelled Tolkien now.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  7. #307
    I mean, diversity and representation are super important, but I don't think there's a magic algorithm to make it happen. A tool like that would be awesome to track trends, but that's about it.

  8. #308
    Scarab Lord SinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    I mean, diversity and representation are super important, but I don't think there's a magic algorithm to make it happen. A tool like that would be awesome to track trends, but that's about it.
    Hey, Jake, I see you've been designing a lot of white male cishet characters lately...
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

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  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    I mean, diversity and representation are super important, but I don't think there's a magic algorithm to make it happen. A tool like that would be awesome to track trends, but that's about it.
    According to their most recent post, that is exactly what they're using it for - not to actively guide development, but to see how the overall representation figures are doing.

    That being said, the potential for misuse is high. The temptation is great to just tweak things around a supposed goal average and then think you've done a good job in your character design.

    That's one of the biggest issues with what people like to call "woke culture": the trend towards equating diversity with quality. That's a category error. Yes we need more diversity, yes we need more representation. All that, for sure. But just because you managed to be diverse and have representation doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make your product good. Those are two very different things. You need BOTH. The real essence of representation is recognizing that quality does not preclude diversity; NOT that diversity EQUALS quality.

    A tool like this could be quite helpful in guiding design towards a more inclusive, more equitable "new normal". Or it could become a corporate implement catering to a twisted idea of "woke" where everything is slaved to a single aggregate metric and the expectation is that somehow makes a good product.

    Time will tell.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    I mean, diversity and representation are super important, but I don't think there's a magic algorithm to make it happen. A tool like that would be awesome to track trends, but that's about it.
    Tools like that are just glorified lists that assign certain properties numerical values and build scores with them. Even suggesting changes is not much more sophisticated - even if it used ML somehow (not sure on which data you would learn it though..). I wouldn't be surprised if they just get the difference to a target value and have a priority system based on the number of changes that is required to make them hit that target value cloest with a certainly failure tolerance.

    I'm honestly more surprised it took them 5 years to program that rubbish, but since AB just changed their tune suddenly who knows what of that PR double Dutch was even true to begin with. Seems like something someone might code for fun to take the piss. I'm also curious if they tried to patent it, that seems to me the right level of corporate evil for the given situation.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  11. #311
    Can't wait for the day to come where people look back and say "To think we were so hyperfocused on race, gender and sexuality. Bunch of idiots we were".

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    IDK why I would need to sit here and explain the difference between accepting things that are intrinsic to a person's being is not the same as accepting ideas and opinions that are from the jump bigoted and based in either fear, hatred or shame. but here I am, explaining it to people I assume are old enough to pay their own taxes...
    And there is the morale superiority coming out where your opinions and differences are better than others and you openly mock them and stereotype them which was my original premise to begin with. Trying to make you understand that you are as guilty as those you dislike over this and hoping you'll see but you won't because you already think you are better than me.

    So here I am explaining what it means to be inclusive and open and non-judgmental about this to someone who is old enough to pay their own taxes.

    This isn't making you feel or think at all is it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    The bigger problem I have with this has nothing to do with Diversity, inclusivity or whether people think "woke" is wrong or not but the bigger problem for me is over the years videogames have always been about escapism and by trying to change character creation etc. to cater to your individual representation in the game they are trying to normalize escapism under the guise of "diversity and inclusivity". The fantasy element of any game should be drawn in the sand so that you do not develop any bad habits or malign mental issues with playing videogames but instead they are making it easier and easier for people to see themselves in the videogame and thus sidestepping the escapism and normalizing a mental connection to your character in the game which has always been shown to be an unhealthy thing for the human mind. Decades upon decades of medical and mental health articles just being pushed to the side in order to normalize yourself inside a videogame.

    This is going down a very dark path and not because of diversity or inclusivity but it's creating a path to future mental issues with peoples addiction to videogames because they can "control themselves in the videogame".
    Last edited by Dorothyjean; 2022-05-14 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Top half is for you uuuhname... bottom half is just for myself and this thread.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Zalraki View Post
    Do try not to get your panties in a bunch. Not every criticism or different opinion immediately constitutes 'losing your shit', racism or bigotry.

    Imagine going to a restaurant that you've been to many times before, with a varied menu. Suddenly the owner decides that from now on, every dish should be served with curry sauce all over the plate, regardless of the suitability. And if you don't like that then you must be a bigot. That's you in a nutshell.
    dude they arent forcing you to have sex with dudes...holy shit...bigots rly have issues with basic logic

  14. #314
    Brewmaster Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark One View Post
    Good for you.

    I'm not you, am also gay, and I feel differently.
    That's why I was asking. Why do you feel the need for representation? What exactly are you looking for them to represent and why does that matter?

    Look, I don't mind if they make a high school movie or something and there happens to be a with questions about gender identity (provided it's talked about fairly and not just glorified oppression Olympics). I do mind if it's a disaster movie and they dote on how the MC is a gay trans Korean or something. Or worse yet, introducing forced diversity in areas where it doesn't make any sense. You wouldn't make a movie about North Korea with a diversity cast unless you are focusing on the like 0.02% of people in North Korea that happen to not be North Korean. People get ideas about what society actually looks like based on their life experiences, and I can guarantee that life experience looks way different even based on your location within the same country.

    I grew up extremely rural and happen to be gay. Being gay is a much smaller part of my identity than my personal values and what I do for a living. I don't share much in common at all with highly urbanized gays, and honestly can't understand why people feel like it's their whole life. Not for lack of trying, I just can't find anyone who can explain it in a manner that makes any sense and/or doesn't make them sound like a total narcissist. It's one of those many things where intersectionality as a theory is probably correct, but any attempt at praxis or fixing the problems shown by it is absolutely more harmful than good.

    Besides, how many groups are we going to slice up society into to get representation? Where do we draw the line on who NEEDS to be represented or not? Why are we bullying creators into changing their stories to represent certain seemingly arbitrary social phenomena?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    So we should all be accepting of other people's differences now? That didn't seem to be the case with you.
    I just assume they are one of those people who thinks you can only be racist or bigoted to certain people based off power dynamics in society or some bullshit. Their bigotry is obviously not REAL bigotry because they're just protecting a lesser class from the real bigots.
    Last edited by Goatfish; 2022-05-14 at 08:40 PM.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    And there is the morale superiority coming out where your opinions and differences are better than others and you openly mock them and stereotype them which was my original premise to begin with. Trying to make you understand that you are as guilty as those you dislike over this and hoping you'll see but you won't because you already think you are better than me.

    So here I am explaining what it means to be inclusive and open and non-judgmental about this to someone who is old enough to pay their own taxes.

    This isn't making you feel or think at all is it?
    fucking LMAOOO

    neither you or the goatfish have at any point articulated why being against bigotry is bad other than asckshoeally you're just as bigoted as people who think Trans people are groomers, pedos, etc. yeah NO SHIT I feel superior to people who think like that. you're not going to make me feel bad for calling out transphobes, homophobes, racists and fascists'. to do so is to implicitly argue in favor of those things, don't like it? you can stop. the ball for being a better person is in your court.

  16. #316
    I wonder... who was guarding King against unconscious bias and exclusion when they were developing the method?
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    dude they arent forcing you to have sex with dudes...holy shit...bigots rly have issues with basic logic
    They will. Just you wait. Next in line is the long awaited "Automated Intercourse with Dudes System". You will participate and you WILL tolerate it. Next expansion is going to have some good features, so just get prepairing. Hope it's outside of LFR system tho.

    To be honest I'd love to see the results of this system. Like, might it take a cliche, boring-ass character like the kind and noble Alexstrasza, and give her traits to make her more, well, unique? So on the output you get an Alexstrasza with cockney accent, newly found love for ski jumping and Tourette's? Game created like that would be awesome. Also, if we take enough workload off writers who had to be coming up with this shit without tools, perhaps GRRM might actually finish Winds of Winter.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    fucking LMAOOO

    neither you or the goatfish have at any point articulated why being against bigotry is bad other than asckshoeally you're just as bigoted as people who think Trans people are groomers, pedos, etc. yeah NO SHIT I feel superior to people who think like that. you're not going to make me feel bad for calling out transphobes, homophobes, racists and fascists'. to do so is to implicitly argue in favor of those things, don't like it? you can stop. the ball for being a better person is in your court.
    The fact that you brought up "fascists" wreaks how ignorant you are about history and you are just another bigot in your own right and feel self-assured to be like this because you think you are religiously right about it. Which means nothing will change your mind on how you see things at this moment because you cling to it religiously.

    I've not once talked about homophones, racists etc. and you went right there by me showing you how you are exactly like the people you despise and want to call out.

    Oh well, lost opportunity on my part to show you but I don't deal with religious people clinging to their beliefs from a place of morality. Don't bother replying, you won't get a reply.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    I just assume they are one of those people who thinks you can only be racist or bigoted to certain people based off power dynamics in society or some bullshit. Their bigotry is obviously not REAL bigotry because they're just protecting a lesser class from the real bigots.
    Ya, after seeing their latest reply they are coming from a place of religious overtones where nothing will sway their faith or belief system that they are the only right in their cause. I don't even bother with them anymore because ultimately trying to change someone's religious belief system is probably the biggest waste of time on planet Earth. They will always be right and nothing will change their minds and they will just jump to other topics to ensure their moral superiority even when it has nothing to do with the context of the conversation.

  19. #319
    Brewmaster Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    fucking LMAOOO

    neither you or the goatfish have at any point articulated why being against bigotry is bad other than asckshoeally you're just as bigoted as people who think Trans people are groomers, pedos, etc. yeah NO SHIT I feel superior to people who think like that. you're not going to make me feel bad for calling out transphobes, homophobes, racists and fascists'. to do so is to implicitly argue in favor of those things, don't like it? you can stop. the ball for being a better person is in your court.
    Because no trans people are groomers or pedos, especially not the people actively targeting young kids who might be questioning their internal feelings and how they relate to reality. Anyone who says anything against any trans person is a phobe or a bigot and should be disregarded even if the actions taken by the trans person is completely morally deficient. We need to be accepting of all people, except those people who think differently than me.

    I specifically said that bigotry is innate to humans. It's something we need to learn to live with because it exists whether we like it or not. You are more than happy to support bigots on your side, and other people are more than happy to support bigots on their side. When you come out saying shit that amounts to "only their bigotry is real and everyone should deny them everything", but don't understand how that makes you hypocritical then there is no conversation. It's just you moralizing to people instead of treating them as adults that may have different information and experiences than you.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Because no trans people are groomers or pedos, especially not the people actively targeting young kids who might be questioning their internal feelings and how they relate to reality. Anyone who says anything against any trans person is a phobe or a bigot and should be disregarded even if the actions taken by the trans person is completely morally deficient. We need to be accepting of all people, except those people who think differently than me.

    I specifically said that bigotry is innate to humans. It's something we need to learn to live with because it exists whether we like it or not. You are more than happy to support bigots on your side, and other people are more than happy to support bigots on their side. When you come out saying shit that amounts to "only their bigotry is real and everyone should deny them everything", but don't understand how that makes you hypocritical then there is no conversation. It's just you moralizing to people instead of treating them as adults that may have different information and experiences than you.
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