Poll: How do you feel about the Dracthyr and Evoker?

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  1. #21
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    The class idea seems all right enough. The Dracthyr are just a poorly designed race, however.

    From a practical sense it makes no sense why Deathwing would want to create a race of dragon/humanoid hybrids when the larger the dragon the bigger the threat. Dragons have always been able to transform into humanoids, including himself, so he just gimped his own species into being physically and magically weaker as well as not being able to hide among the mortal races because of the scales still being present during transformations. All the downsides of being a humanoid in the WarCraft universe with none of the upsides of being a dragon.

    Not to mention that the models look they came from a completely different game. They look nothing like WarCraft dragons and more like something from an eastern fantasy game like Final Fantasy. They're on the same level as the female Cataclysm model for the Worgen in terms of awkwardness. The designs are just bad.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    The class idea seems all right enough. The Dracthyr are just a poorly designed race, however.

    From a practical sense it makes no sense why Deathwing would want to create a race of dragon/humanoid hybrids when the larger the dragon the bigger the threat. Dragons have always been able to transform into humanoids, including himself, so he just gimped his own species into being physically and magically weaker as well as not being able to hide among the mortal races because of the scales still being present during transformations. All the downsides of being a humanoid in the WarCraft universe with none of the upsides of being a dragon.

    Not to mention that the models look they came from a completely different game. They look nothing like WarCraft dragons and more like something from an eastern fantasy game like Final Fantasy. They're on the same level as the female Cataclysm model for the Worgen in terms of awkwardness. The designs are just bad.
    Imagine them being created by a differnt group, just as the reforged models. Only thinking about it.. my god.

    Obviously its not, as its clearly a model we already know.

  3. #23
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    The class idea seems all right enough. The Dracthyr are just a poorly designed race, however.

    From a practical sense it makes no sense why Deathwing would want to create a race of dragon/humanoid hybrids when the larger the dragon the bigger the threat.

    Dragons have always been able to transform into humanoids, including himself, so he just gimped his own species into being physically and magically weaker as well as not being able to hide among the mortal races because of the scales still being present during transformations. All the downsides of being a humanoid in the WarCraft universe with none of the upsides of being a dragon.
    You’re applying design limitations to lore, and asking why doesnt something make sense. They make sense because Blizzard couldn’t allow players to be massive dragons, and couldn’t give Dracthyrs the option to have a visage form for every existing race.

    Not to mention that the models look they came from a completely different game. They look nothing like WarCraft dragons and more like something from an eastern fantasy game like Final Fantasy. They're on the same level as the female Cataclysm model for the Worgen in terms of awkwardness. The designs are just bad.
    You haven’t seen the final Dracthyr model, nor it’s full range of customizations. Odd judgement call to make.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    4. Dracthyr being Evokers is also controversial. Even with Dracthyr being made as special soldiers, that does not really mean they need to be only Evokers. Warriors and hunters always make sense for any race. With the Powers of Blue, Red and Bronze dragonflight, mage seem to be obvious choice, Black dragonflight (uncorrupted) could lead to shaman, Green dragons opens Druid class (Dragon druid forms anyone?). Warlocks and priests would also work I guess.
    To me I don't think that these classes makes "sense" to add. Not because they can't be them, but a Dracthyr who is infused with the dragonflights; why would they just not use their toolkits along with the classes.
    If a Dracthyr went to be a warrior I imagine they would be a dragonwarrior kind of type where they use dragonskills along with some warrior stuff. Same with mage (which essentially is the RDPS spec).

    It would just feel odd to me. Not saying it's a bad thing if more classes are added, but I would argue that's the more forced option and very gamey and not particularly making sense. But sometimes that is ok for gameplay reasons.

    Side note:

    Seems to look in favor of the class / race... wonder if the negative people will stop using the words "objectively" but I doubt it.

  5. #25
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Side note:

    Seems to look in favor of the class / race... wonder if the negative people will stop using the words "objectively" but I doubt it.
    Not a chance. We have some posters here who think they understand the concept better than the devs.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    To me I don't think that these classes makes "sense" to add. Not because they can't be them, but a Dracthyr who is infused with the dragonflights; why would they just not use their toolkits along with the classes.
    If a Dracthyr went to be a warrior I imagine they would be a dragonwarrior kind of type where they use dragonskills along with some warrior stuff. Same with mage (which essentially is the RDPS spec).

    It would just feel odd to me. Not saying it's a bad thing if more classes are added, but I would argue that's the more forced option and very gamey and not particularly making sense. But sometimes that is ok for gameplay reasons.

    Side note:

    Seems to look in favor of the class / race... wonder if the negative people will stop using the words "objectively" but I doubt it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Not a chance. We have some posters here who think they understand the concept better than the devs.
    I can only agree. Not a chance. Blizzard failed to deliver dragon fantasy with Soythyr model. It's objectively bad.

  7. #27
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    I can only agree. Not a chance. Blizzard failed to deliver dragon fantasy with Soythyr model. It's objectively bad.
    And yet when people actually see the finished product, and play it, the majority of players will be just fine with it.

  8. #28
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You’re applying design limitations to lore, and asking why doesnt something make sense. They make sense because Blizzard couldn’t allow players to be massive dragons, and couldn’t give Dracthyrs the option to have a visage form for every existing race.
    You basically just admitted that I am right and that it doesn't make sense lore wise. If the writers can't even justify why they should exist other than "it's just gameplay", then why even tie Deathwing with the Dracthyr at all? They could have just as well have had them be actual half Human, half Dragon hybrids with parentage from both races like Half Elves are for Humans and Elves and that would have been an easier pill to swallow than Deathwing creating them. The direction they went with is just incredibly dumb and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You haven’t seen the final Dracthyr model, nor it’s full range of customizations. Odd judgement call to make.
    Doesn't matter if they are not "finished". These are the models they decided to show off to the public in a massive promotional event. It is promotional material to sell to people in an attempt to get them interested in playing the game. If the promotional material is bad, then it is completely fair game to criticise it regardless of it being the final product or not.

    Imagine if people didn't criticise the Sonic trailer character model just because it was not "the final product". We wouldn't have got the redesign to improve on it in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Imagine them being created by a differnt group, just as the reforged models. Only thinking about it.. my god.

    Obviously its not, as its clearly a model we already know.
    Yep. The coolness factor is practically non-existent with the current designs.
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2022-05-15 at 11:58 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And yet when people actually see the finished product, and play it, the majority of players will be just fine with it.
    I doubt it will happen unless they give them masculine models.

  10. #30
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    You basically just admitted that I am right and that it doesn't make sense lore wise. If the writers can't even justify why they should exist other than "it's just gameplay", then why even tie Deathwing with the Dracthyr at all? They could have just as well have had them be actual half Human, half Dragon hybrids with parentage from both races like Half Elves are for Humans and Elves and that would have been an easier pill to swallow than Deathwing creating them. The direction they went with is just incredibly dumb and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
    Well no, I didn't admit that it doesn't make sense. I said that you're arguing that the lore doesn't make sense based on design choices influenced by technical and developer limitations. Blizzard can toss up any lore to justify their design decisions, it doesn't have to make sense because we're not dealing with something where logic needs to necessarily apply.

    For example, you saying that it doesn't make sense why Deathwing would create smaller dragons as superweapons instead of larger dragons. That can simply be explained the same way as why B-52 bombers needed fighter escorts in WW2 to avoid getting shot down; Bigger doesn't always mean better. With Visages, it could simply be that the first mortals the Dracthyr encounter after 10k years are humans and elves, so they pattern themselves after them. Based on the lore we're getting out of the Dracthyr starter zone, this appears to be what happens, since you choose your visage form AFTER you start the zone.

    Again, this is why waiting for more information before making judgement calls (especially about lore) is important.


    Doesn't matter if they are not "finished". These are the models they decided to show off to the public in a massive promotional event. It is promotional material to sell to people in an attempt to get them interested in playing the game. If the promotional material is bad, then it is completely fair game to criticise it regardless of it being the final product or not.
    The promotional material is bad in your opinion. Others view it as just fine. Your argument is subjective, not objective.

  11. #31
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well no, I didn't admit that it doesn't make sense. I said that you're arguing that the lore doesn't make sense based on design choices influenced by technical and developer limitations. Blizzard can toss up any lore to justify their design decisions, it doesn't have to make sense because we're not dealing with something where logic needs to necessarily apply.

    For example, you saying that it doesn't make sense why Deathwing would create smaller dragons as superweapons instead of larger dragons. That can simply be explained the same way as why B-52 bombers needed fighter escorts in WW2 to avoid getting shot down; Bigger doesn't always mean better. With Visages, it could simply be that the first mortals the Dracthyr encounter after 10k years are humans and elves, so they pattern themselves after them. Based on the lore we're getting out of the Dracthyr starter zone, this appears to be what happens, since you choose your visage form AFTER you start the zone.

    Again, this is why waiting for more information before making judgement calls (especially about lore) is important.
    You did. Also, you can justify anything with that kind of mentality. It's that kind of reasoning that brought us Shadowlands and boy what a trainwreck that was. Dragonflight is shaping up to be no different if this is the philosophy going forward.

    Your argument would make sense, if it wasn't for the fact that there are already multiple dragon types within each Flight, and the larger ones are fully capable of changing forms at will to become smaller like their humanoid forms. There are already so many variations of dragon out there and any of those choices would have made more sense than what we got. It does not make sense, regardless of how you wish to spin it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The promotional material is bad in your opinion. Others view it as just fine. Your argument is subjective, not objective.
    Of course it is an opinion. An opinion that plenty of people share. Just because it is an opinion doesn't change anything. It is a perfectly valid viewpoint to have.

  12. #32
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    You did. Also, you can justify anything with that kind of mentality. It's that kind of reasoning that brought us Shadowlands and boy what a trainwreck that was. Dragonflight is shaping up to be no different if this is the philosophy going forward.

    Your argument would make sense, if it wasn't for the fact that there are already multiple dragon types within each Flight, and the larger ones are fully capable of changing forms at will to become smaller like their humanoid forms. There are already so many variations of dragon out there and any of those choices would have made more sense than what we got. It does not make sense, regardless of how you wish to spin it.
    The argument makes sense because it makes sense to Blizzard. That's the only people that it needs to make sense to in order to put it in the game. That's the benefit of controlling the lore. If you think that's spin, well you that's on you because the Dracthyr are coming whether you like it or not. Either accept it, or play something else. I utterly despised Shadowlands, so I didn't play it. I recommend you do the same for Dragonflight if you feel as strongly about this as I did about Shadowlands.

    Of course it is an opinion. An opinion that plenty of people share. Just because it is an opinion doesn't change anything. It is a perfectly valid viewpoint to have.
    "There are dozens of us!"

    Everything isn't meant to appeal to everyone. I'm sorry this doesn't appeal to you, but that doesn't make it "bad" or "not Warcraft".

  13. #33
    Dracthyr is what you get when Blizzard decides to add playable dragons and then halfasses the design process by taking the worgen skeleton, demon hunter wings and saurok head to make the model. And then they expect people to be amazed by this crap.

    Blizzard's current design philosophy is "how can we create stuff with minimal effort". And then they wonder why people leave this game.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    The class idea seems all right enough. The Dracthyr are just a poorly designed race, however.

    From a practical sense it makes no sense why Deathwing would want to create a race of dragon/humanoid hybrids when the larger the dragon the bigger the threat. Dragons have always been able to transform into humanoids, including himself, so he just gimped his own species into being physically and magically weaker as well as not being able to hide among the mortal races because of the scales still being present during transformations. All the downsides of being a humanoid in the WarCraft universe with none of the upsides of being a dragon.

    Not to mention that the models look they came from a completely different game. They look nothing like WarCraft dragons and more like something from an eastern fantasy game like Final Fantasy. They're on the same level as the female Cataclysm model for the Worgen in terms of awkwardness. The designs are just bad.
    Yeah m8 it doesn't look like Warcraft at all. The absolute champ who made this edit understands Blizzard art style better than Blizzard dev who worked on this fucked up abomination.


  15. #35
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    Yeah m8 it doesn't look like Warcraft at all. The absolute champ who made this edit understands Blizzard art style better than Blizzard dev who worked on this fucked up abomination.

    Precisely. WarCraft has had a distinct artstyle for decades and the current developers just no longer understand this anymore. Same could be said about a lot of the art in Shadowlands. It's so far removed from the style that the likes of Samwise Didier set in stone back in the 90s. This isn't WarCraft anymore.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    Yeah m8 it doesn't look like Warcraft at all. The absolute champ who made this edit understands Blizzard art style better than Blizzard dev who worked on this fucked up abomination.

    It is ThunderBrush art. He is an art-director of Paladins. A lot of his works are inspired by old blizzard artstyle.
    There is no surprise that a professional of his level understands how artstyle works.

  17. #37
    Activist at Blizzard Entertainment working whole hardily to push their narrative once again. What a disgusting abomination this is. I also have a confidence to admit that his might be just another Heroes of the Storm wheelchair class when it comes to ganeplay and mechanics.

    This doesn't do any justice to powerful almighty Dragons of Azeroth. Nothing so far make sense, and since developers are trans people, this is just that, plain attempt to desensitize Wow's playerbase.

  18. #38
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    I don't think Dracthyr as presented so far are compelling enough. Very cheesy deviantart / generic-MMO aesthetic, and zero precedent for them in the game universe. You could maybe get away with one or the other, but not both.

    Evoker sounds great. The worst part about it will be the race restriction.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by neik View Post
    since developers are trans people, this is just that, plain attempt to desensitize Wow's playerbase.
    Stand for love and reason.

  20. #40
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    Love the class for sure. But the race? What the fuck were they thinking? I GUARANTEE a furry made this. It looks NOTHING like a WoW dragon. It looks like a combination of a Disney dragonoid and a furries deviantart drawing. It’s horrible. I hoped after Vulpera we’d get a break from the furry love for a bit.

    It definitely saddens me because I wanted a dragonoid race for years. But I expected it would look like the dragonoids we have in game already. Like they actually came from Azeroth whereas these guys look like they’re not meant to be in this game. It’s sad.

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