Exile's Reach->Battle For Azeroth->Dragonflight?

[Hitei]

"For the new player experience, new players specifically will be sent from Exile’s Reach to BFA, then onto Dragon Isles. More veteran players, people who have already leveled a character to max can choose like Chromie Time to go level in Draenor or Pandaria or Shadowlands. But for new players, it’s going to go: Exile’s Reach, BFA, Dragon Isles."

Wait, this doesn't make sense, they are completely skipping Shadowlands. Shouldn't BFA be a Timewalking option instead of Shadowlands? I'm confused.

Source For Interview: https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...-and-tina-wang To get quickly to the quote, CTRL+F and type "level 70".

It makes pretty good sense. BfA was the ideal for Shadowlands because it introduces the Horde and Alliance and Sylvanas (you have to do the Lordaeron intro stuff) and is also the most up to date question content besides Shadowlands, and is self-explanatory, not particularly requiring earlier knowledge (you don't need to know why the Alliance and Horde are currently at war, just that they are).

Dragonflight is unrelated to the previous few expansions. It's just about Aspects and an exploration party going out to explore, because right now happens to be the time where the islands are waking up. There's no ongoing story you have to at least somewhat explain, Dragons are looking for Dragonhome, easy. This means Shadowlands doesn't have to be the default experience.

So then they went "what should be the intro". Shadowlands didn't make sense, because it's a very awkward expansion for someone who knows nothing about Warcraft, you get off the island and suddenly you're in the land of the dead, without knowing what that is, helping people you don't know and hearing about characters (Sylvanas, Lady Proudmoore, the Night Warrior, etc.) you've never heard of. Shadowlands requires at least a bit of intro, which is why BfA was used before it.

So then your next logical step is to just keep using BfA: it's very modern and tight questing. It's a pretty solid entry for new players, you show up in stormwind and get recruited to go treaty and help the war effort. You get taught about the places (Zandalar, KT) you go to, so you don't need prior information because NPCs talk about the history and stuff.

It's a very good expansion for brand new people and is low concept, where Shadowlands expects referential knowledge and is the end of several storylines.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

"For the new player experience, new players specifically will be sent from Exile’s Reach to BFA, then onto Dragon Isles. More veteran players, people who have already leveled a character to max can choose like Chromie Time to go level in Draenor or Pandaria or Shadowlands. But for new players, it’s going to go: Exile’s Reach, BFA, Dragon Isles."

Wait, this doesn't make sense, they are completely skipping Shadowlands. Shouldn't BFA be a Timewalking option instead of Shadowlands? I'm confused.

Source For Interview: https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...-and-tina-wang To get quickly to the quote, CTRL+F and type "level 70".

Exile's Reach lorewise happens during the Battle of Lordaeron.

[Gurg]

Makes sense to me.

Exiles Reach, technically happens during BFA. Sending new players to BFA will introduce them to majority of relevant characters, traction between fractions, latest developments on Azeroth as well as prepare them for DF.
Pretty much, whole Shadowlands experience can be left behind as we, as veterans, transition back to Azeroth.

Sending new players to Shadowlands would feel quite weird, and probably confusing, as whole expansion is mostly disconnected from Azeroth.
I mean.. imagine your self as a new player, going trough Shadowlands, its zone stories and then being tossed back on to Azeroth with Titans sword (what sword?) sticking out of the planet.
/plays in background "Aladdin's A Whole New World"

On top of that, subjectively, majority of BFA zones are quite beautiful and most zone stories are interesting.

Shadowlands on other hand.. NO. Just NO.

[rhorle]

Wait, this doesn't make sense, they are completely skipping Shadowlands. Shouldn't BFA be a Timewalking option instead of Shadowlands? I'm confused.

A lot of the story for Shadowlands is tied to covenants and things like Torghast allow for a pretty easy way to level. It makes sense why a 100% new to the game player might be steered away from distractions like that when the goal is to get them to end-game with "modern" designs.

[Wylyth1992]

It makes pretty good sense. BfA was the ideal for Shadowlands because it introduces the Horde and Alliance and Sylvanas (you have to do the Lordaeron intro stuff) and is also the most up to date question content besides Shadowlands, and is self-explanatory, not particularly requiring earlier knowledge (you don't need to know why the Alliance and Horde are currently at war, just that they are).

Dragonflight is unrelated to the previous few expansions. It's just about Aspects and an exploration party going out to explore, because right now happens to be the time where the islands are waking up. There's no ongoing story you have to at least somewhat explain, Dragons are looking for Dragonhome, easy. This means Shadowlands doesn't have to be the default experience.

So then they went "what should be the intro". Shadowlands didn't make sense, because it's a very awkward expansion for someone who knows nothing about Warcraft, you get off the island and suddenly you're in the land of the dead, without knowing what that is, helping people you don't know and hearing about characters (Sylvanas, Lady Proudmoore, the Night Warrior, etc.) you've never heard of. Shadowlands requires at least a bit of intro, which is why BfA was used before it.

So then your next logical step is to just keep using BfA: it's very modern and tight questing. It's a pretty solid entry for new players, you show up in stormwind and get recruited to go treaty and help the war effort. You get taught about the places (Zandalar, KT) you go to, so you don't need prior information because NPCs talk about the history and stuff.

It's a very good expansion for brand new people and is low concept, where Shadowlands expects referential knowledge and is the end of several storylines.

Fair enough.

[Th3Scourge]

Will new Horde players learn that Sylvanas is no longer warchief during the BFA levelling? They are going to do Exiles Reach > BFA questing > Dragonflight with a horde war council.

There's going to be some missing context there. Although I am not going to suggest they go to Shadowlands. I like that this is a subtle way to just pretend that SL doesn't exist

[Celement]

It doesn't really effect the story either... all the players in sl are mostly hold overs from past expansions or old warcraft 3 heroes.

I can't see anyone besides maybe the troll god guy whose name I cant spell returning from sl and maybe that one voice actor they like.

[Amnaught]

Not only that, but like, it probably isn't even necessary to understand the events of DF.

Considering the way Timewalking Campaigns work right now, I'm gonna disagree.

Right now, Timewalking is abruptly shut off at level 50. Playing Battle For Azeroth, everything naturally scales to 50 anyway, so it doesnt really matter; you can finish the story.

But in Dragonflight, you're going to go from level 10-59 in Battle For Azeroth, then ding 60, watch all of the mobs suddenly turn into gray level 50s, and you'll jump straight forward into a time where Anduin and Sylvanas are just gone without explanation.

[Gehco]

Now every Stormwind's grandma can go into oribos and keep looking for their family!

Actually, I don't know what the lore will be for that.. We.. going to keep the door ajar (portal in the tower) or, lore-wise, the door is slammed shut? (WoD).

- - - Updated - - -

Will new Horde players learn that Sylvanas is no longer warchief during the BFA levelling? They are going to do Exiles Reach > BFA questing > Dragonflight with a horde war council.

There's going to be some missing context there. Although I am not going to suggest they go to Shadowlands. I like that this is a subtle way to just pretend that SL doesn't exist

9.2.5 will hold updates in Azeroth about some changes from Shadowlands?

The whole of Shadowlands can almost be ignored. You have Sylvanas going bonkers in BFA, so, her ass as a bad guy is already public, and if you wanna learn more, there is the realm of death for that.

[Hitei]

Actually, I don't know what the lore will be for that.. We.. going to keep the door ajar (portal in the tower) or, lore-wise, the door is slammed shut? (WoD).

- - - Updated - - -



9.2.5 will hold updates in Azeroth about some changes from Shadowlands?

The whole of Shadowlands can almost be ignored. You have Sylvanas going bonkers in BFA, so, her ass as a bad guy is already public, and if you wanna learn more, there is the realm of death for that.

Every expansion can mostly be ignored.

[Gehco]

Every expansion can mostly be ignored.

Eh, not really? The ones easiest to ignore are the external events of TBC, WoD, and Shadowlands.

[Nymrohd]

I'm still not happy about the whole "loved ones can end up in different realms" thing, you'd think they'd find a solution for that.

People could visit the other realms before the drought. Aspirants who failed the trials of Bastion or did not want to proceed with them could also return to Oribos to be sorted to a different afterlife, the same is true for souls who made penance in Revendreth and cast off their Sinstones; they could choose to join the Venthyr or go back to Oribos to be sorted back. We do not know if the same is true for Maldraxus and Ardenweald but it is quite probable. And we can are also led to believe that these are the four realms that serve a purpose in the machine of the afterlife and there are many other afterlifes that are probably much less active and don't have the same maintenance needs.


Also I find this idea that we are not just entitled to heaven but rather to our mortal definition of heaven very problematic.

[Hitei]

Eh, not really? The ones easiest to ignore are the external events of TBC, WoD, and Shadowlands.

Yes, really.

Despite Cata blowing up "the entire world" it's events are only actually relevant to a handful of zones with significant changes, and even those are largely only something you acknowledge if you recognize that there has been a change, i.e. you knew the zone's old version. No new player is showing up to Thousand Needles and going "Wow, why is there water!?" or to Desolace and being shocked and confused there's wild growth in the middle of it. It's unnecessary to the general game world and especially unnecessary to MoP whose only real connection to it is that the Cataclysm happened to be the thing to let people through the mist, a fairly contrived plot point to begin with.

MoP can be totally ignored because nothing about it particularly necessary to any other story point. It's when Jaina turned into mean Jaina, but like the above zones, Jaina's transformation is something that only exists for people who already knew. The Garrosh lead in, besides being a miniscule fragment at the tail end of the expansion, isn't even really covered well in MoP. It's basically a book plot point and then the domain of WoD.

The only actual ongoing value of any expansion is pretty much what it does to a handful of main characters. The entire idea of """external""" events is nonsense. How is Wrath any less "external" than TBC, WoD or Shadowlands? It being on Azeroth doesn't make it actually any more impactful, it's an isolated continent like all the others, with a threat originating from that isolated continent that gets dealt with.

The singular actually important plot point of Legion happens off-world, in 30 seconds at the very end of the final cinematic of the final raid, and even that is really not all that important, because BfA isn't even really about the Sword, which is just sort of a side plot point, or even Azerite, which is just a MacGuffin to accelerate the war, it's about attempting to recruit navies to gain tactical advantage over the enemy forces, and then about Azshara and N'zoth's forces.

All expansions can be largely ignored.

[Kiriastrasza]

Considering the way Timewalking Campaigns work right now, I'm gonna disagree.

Right now, Timewalking is abruptly shut off at level 50. Playing Battle For Azeroth, everything naturally scales to 50 anyway, so it doesnt really matter; you can finish the story.

But in Dragonflight, you're going to go from level 10-59 in Battle For Azeroth, then ding 60, watch all of the mobs suddenly turn into gray level 50s, and you'll jump straight forward into a time where Anduin and Sylvanas are just gone without explanation.

Well Blizz could put in that little bit of extra effort and do a slideshow of stills with a narrator voicing the end of BFA and giving a slight narrative to what had happened during SLs, that would explain to new players were the old leaders are instead of leaving them in the dark, but then again knowing Blizz it's just another opportunity to make more money from book sales or other media.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Nothing is lost by skipping shadowlands. Arguably skipping BfA as well would be a good idea. For a new player going straight to Dragon Isles would be best probably, because the whole excursion into Zandalar and Kul Tiras makes not a lick of sense from final point of Exile's Reach. You may be a promising adventurer, but you are not Azeroth's Chosen Champion either to warrant such an honor in any way. Shadowlands is simply a detriment as an experience of what to expect from the game at that point, so they obviously don't want you to go there to experience some nonsense about the afterlife.

The issue is that they don't really have anything that is actually down to earth and BfA is probably the closest they have, the average person isn't going to play WoW for the story or immersion anyway, so it's probably the best option short of not forcing people to level through old content. I guess they could go with legion, but they'd probably fear that people would get false expectations again. They most likely want to keep it short though and don't want people to go to more than one place (expansion), so the shytelands fall down by the wayside for that as well. In the end, if we assume they want to keep it short, somewhat recent, simple and contained they only have BfA.

[Kiriastrasza]

Nothing is lost by skipping shadowlands. Arguably skipping BfA as well would be a good idea. For a new player going straight to Dragon Isles would be best probably, because the whole excursion into Zandalar and Kul Tiras makes not a lick of sense from final point of Exile's Reach. You may be a promising adventurer, but you are not Azeroth's Chosen Champion either to warrant such an honor in any way. Shadowlands is simply a detriment as an experience of what to expect from the game at that point, so they obviously don't want you to go there to experience some nonsense about the afterlife.

The issue is that they don't really have anything that is actually down to earth and BfA is probably the closest they have, the average person isn't going to play WoW for the story or immersion anyway, so it's probably the best option short of not forcing people to level through old content. I guess they could go with legion, but they'd probably fear that people would get false expectations again. They most likely want to keep it short though and don't want people to go to more than one place (expansion), so the shytelands fall down by the wayside for that as well. In the end, if we assume they want to keep it short, somewhat recent, simple and contained they only have BfA.

BFA is actually an incredible levelling experience for new players as the art assets are really well done and the story is interesting I had a friend playing last night that had never played WoW and he was really enjoying it, sadly because of the time hes started he will have to experience SL's which admitedly isnt as bad as when it launched but its not as fun to do imho.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well Blizz could put in that little bit of extra effort and do a slideshow of stills with a narrator voicing the end of BFA and giving a slight narrative to what had happened during SLs, that would explain to new players were the old leaders are instead of leaving them in the dark, but then again knowing Blizz it's just another opportunity to make more money from book sales or other media.

Can you imagine it? Blizzard finally reaching the heights of 15 year old korean grinder MMOs when it comes to storytelling. I hope I'll make it another 40 years to finally see the day.

[Nymrohd]

Well Blizz could put in that little bit of extra effort and do a slideshow of stills with a narrator voicing the end of BFA and giving a slight narrative to what had happened during SLs, that would explain to new players were the old leaders are instead of leaving them in the dark, but then again knowing Blizz it's just another opportunity to make more money from book sales or other media.

Are the campaign questlines not available anymore? I'd assume if you level straight through BfA you won't hit 60 if you just do the main stories for your three zones right? Could be you do 50-60 by doing the patch campaign content (including I guess some Naz'jatar and possibly even some 8.3). That should at least get you to the point where Sylvanas yeets off and at least on Horde side you get most of what you need. On Alliance side things are a bit more interesting since you suddenly lose Anduin and never get a resolution for Night Warrior without SL.

[Kiriastrasza]

Are the campaign questlines not available anymore? I'd assume if you level straight through BfA you won't hit 60 if you just do the main stories for your three zones right? Could be you do 50-60 by doing the patch campaign content (including I guess some Naz'jatar and possibly even some 8.3). That should at least get you to the point where Sylvanas yeets off and at least on Horde side you get most of what you need. On Alliance side things are a bit more interesting since you suddenly lose Anduin and never get a resolution for Night Warrior without SL.

Doing 2 zones and no war campaign can easily get you from 10-50 in a couple of hours, I do believe with the 3rd zone and the war campaign you can get to 58/60 quite comftably come 10.0.

[Nymrohd]

Doing 2 zones and no war campaign can easily get you from 10-50 in a couple of hours, I do believe with the 3rd zone and the war campaign you can get to 58/60 quite comftably come 10.0.

I assume you mean doing the zone fully though, side quests included? If you just do the main storylines I'd expect you'd get less.