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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    what they are doing is just racist gaslighting,using quotes from the people they hate to spin it is pretty common
    I could poke fun at the irony of this but like all comedy brevity is golden.

  2. #282
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    IMO, given the developers, it really wouldn't be that out-of-character for them to be using such a thing.
    Because making a diverse game like say overwatch means you want to break people down into numbers and charts?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Yes, gay people are normal.
    Yes they are - in the eyes of the beholder. Also, it doesn’t automatically mean that a male can have a “husband”.

  4. #284
    Stood in the Fire Chilela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It's just a silly over-engineered solution to a problem. The absolute meltdown in response is hilarious.
    Some degree of grievance is, frankly, justified, even if there are certainly people who are blowing it out of proportion. The fact that time and effort was dedicated to conceiving this, on top of it being considered relevant enough to get an open announcement of it, is proof that reducing people's identities to measurable numbers is something that's not entirely out of the question for modern corporate culture. That, in and of itself, should be at least mildly concerning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Because making a diverse game like say overwatch means you want to break people down into numbers and charts?
    Because modern game development sort of nurtures that mindset. One of the WoW devs was adamant in making Ardenweald effectively 50/50 in gender ratio. While I personally didn't really care (nor would I have even noticed unless it was explicitly pointed out by them), making such things into a highly-conscious decision makes the "Numbers and charts" thing not too far of a logical leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drudi View Post
    Yes they are - in the eyes of the beholder. Also, it doesn’t automatically mean that a male can have a “husband”.
    Wat
    Last edited by Chilela; 2022-05-16 at 07:47 PM.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudi View Post
    Yes they are - in the eyes of the beholder. Also, it doesn’t automatically mean that a male can have a “husband”.
    Actually it kinda does.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudi View Post
    Yes they are - in the eyes of the beholder. Also, it doesn’t automatically mean that a male can have a “husband”.
    Objectively speaking, a male can have a husband. I know some of them.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  7. #287
    Hypothetically speaking most of these fetishes can turn into a serious threat to national security many generations ahead. So let's not groom our kids with it.

    I hold you corporate leaders accountable on it, not your fucking coins that you make out of it. But basic fucking common sense that has been a successful fabric of human reality.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by vincink View Post
    That's an unreasonable framing-- that there's only two kinds of people in the world: progressives and "MAGA Hats". Humanity is not that simple and even people within both movements are not that simple. You are also not that simple. Reductive categories make it easy to make hypothetical people who do not exist or exist in few numbers. By claiming that there's only progressives and "MAGA Hats" in Blizzard, you force the entire corporation of Blizzard employees into two categories and then discard people in one category as undesirable. At best, this straw-manning is unhelpful; at worst is prejudice.
    There are literally only two kinds of people: people who want progress and people who don’t want progress. That’s a true dichotomy.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  9. #289
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincink View Post
    That's an unreasonable framing-- that there's only two kinds of people in the world: progressives or "MAGA Hats". Humanity is not that simple and even people within both movements are not that simple. You are also not that simple. Reductive categories make it easy to make hypothetical people who do not exist or exist in few numbers. By claiming that there's only progressives and "MAGA Hats" in Blizzard, you force the entire corporation of Blizzard employees into those categories and discard one category as undesirable. This is prejudice, reductive, and not at all helpful.
    Ya no where did I say there’s only two kinds of people.

    What I actually said is that when you have a frat work culture that’s all but mandating MAGA hats it’s mutually exclusive with a progressive culture actually being in charge.

    Unless of course you think passing over minority’s and woman threatening people who come forward with harassment ect are all part of progressive culture.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Syncr View Post
    What on earth does this have to do with going outside? A company has a giant announcement detailing everything about a program they worked on for five years, and you think it’s obvious that this was just a “just for giggles” thing?

    I honest to god can’t tell if you’re trolling. I don’t actually care about the tool at, no matter how dumb I think it is. But what on earth are you even talking about my friend.
    Because it doesn’t say they worked on this for five years. It says they started conceiving of a way to solve this problem five years ago. That’s not the same thing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilela View Post
    Some degree of grievance is, frankly, justified, even if there are certainly people who are blowing it out of proportion. The fact that time and effort was dedicated to conceiving this, on top of it being considered relevant enough to get an open announcement of it, is proof that reducing people's identities to measurable numbers is something that's not entirely out of the question for modern corporate culture. That, in and of itself, should be at least mildly concerning.



    Because modern game development sort of nurtures that mindset. One of the WoW devs was adamant in making Ardenweald effectively 50/50 in gender ratio. While I personally didn't really care (nor would I have even noticed unless it was explicitly pointed out by them), making such things into a highly-conscious decision makes the "Numbers and charts" thing not too far of a logical leap.
    It’s just like garbage anti-racism corporate training. “Woke” people hate that shit too. We just don’t spend our time crying about it. We laugh at it and move on to working on actual solutions.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  11. #291
    This isn't what we meant by rework racials

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post

    It’s just like garbage anti-racism corporate training. “Woke” people hate that shit too. We just don’t spend our time crying about it. We laugh at it and move on to working on actual solutions.
    "We"? Are you saying you identify as Woke?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Because it doesn’t say they worked on this for five years. It says they started conceiving of a way to solve this problem five years ago. That’s not the same thing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It’s just like garbage anti-racism corporate training. “Woke” people hate that shit too. We just don’t spend our time crying about it. We laugh at it and move on to working on actual solutions.
    A distinction without a difference is what that’s called.

  14. #294
    now we know why overwatch 2's dev time took 4 years

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    "We"? Are you saying you identify as Woke?
    I am what weirdo losers would call “woke”.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syncr View Post
    A distinction without a difference is what that’s called.
    If you think there’s no difference between “I had an idea five years ago” and “I worked on this for five years”. Ok then.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by ResentfulUK View Post
    I honestly don't see the controversy or concern around this tool. If you throw your characters you're building for a game into this tool and realise because of it that actually the vast majority of your assets are broadly the same, where is the harm in recognising that and adding in more diverse characters?

    I'm not suggesting games should be forced to include every race, creed, ethnicity, religion, sexuality and any other identifying characteristic, but is there truly any harm in recognising that maybe some of your biases have produced a game that maybe doesn't need or warrant that bias?

    For some games, where historical accuracy is important, sure, there may be quite a substantial focus on one group, but for games like Overwatch or World of Warcraft is there really any harm in recognising that your characters may be are predominantly white and straight?

    Representation in games I do believe is important. Should characters be so outwardly gay it's shoved down people's throat, no. Does it hurt to however adapt the story to include that maybe a character is gay? Also no.

    I feel like much of the negative reaction is mostly based on those very biases these tool is designed to avoid. No-one is denying white, straight males should exist in games, but does it honestly ruin your game to at least design and build out a black gay character, or someone with a disability, or someone struggling with mental health?
    Look at Torbjörn's and Zarya's scores. Somehow she gets a higher score in Culture when she is Russian and he is Swedish. Is Russian more special/unique than Swedish? Personally I see more Russians in games than I do Swedish. She also has a higher body score even though she is just a normal bodied women who was a weightlifter/bodybuilder while Torbjörn is an extremely short slightly chunky dude missing an arm and an eye. How is a bodybuilder more unique/special than an amputee "dwarf"? Clearly this tool has its own biases coded into it.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I am what weirdo losers would call “woke”.
    Ok, i only ask because in your previous post you called yourself woke.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Ok, i only ask because in your previous post you called yourself woke.
    It was in the context of the framing provided by weirdo anti-woke online crusaders.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I am what weirdo losers would call “woke”.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you think there’s no difference between “I had an idea five years ago” and “I worked on this for five years”. Ok then.
    Ok I have a question for you, do you think they mentioned the 5 year thing and what they really meant was “yeah so we saw this issue 5 years ago and we just now decided to make it”.

    That is clearly implying this is how long they spent “working” or “brain storming” on this project. Your conspiratorial gene is flaring up SUPER hard in this thread LOL.

    Oh wait here are blizzards actual words

    Started in 2016, the Diversity Space Tool–currently in beta–was designed as an optional supplement to the hard work and focus our teams already place on telling diverse stories with diverse characters, but decisions regarding in-game content have been and will always be driven by development teams. The tool was developed at King, and has been beta tested by several developers across the company, all of whom have provided valuable input.
    So it seems you’re wrong in your conspiratorial guesses
    Last edited by Syncr; 2022-05-16 at 07:58 PM.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It’s just like garbage anti-racism corporate training. “Woke” people hate that shit too. We just don’t spend our time crying about it. We laugh at it and move on to working on actual solutions.
    Well I don't really laugh at it because it is mostly counter-productive.
    It still ends up with some representation instead of none so I guess it's better than nothing.

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