King's Diversity Space Tool: A Leap Forward for Inclusion in Gaming

[qwerty123456]

I honestly don't see the controversy or concern around this tool. If you throw your characters you're building for a game into this tool and realise because of it that actually the vast majority of your assets are broadly the same, where is the harm in recognising that and adding in more diverse characters?

I'm not suggesting games should be forced to include every race, creed, ethnicity, religion, sexuality and any other identifying characteristic, but is there truly any harm in recognising that maybe some of your biases have produced a game that maybe doesn't need or warrant that bias?

For some games, where historical accuracy is important, sure, there may be quite a substantial focus on one group, but for games like Overwatch or World of Warcraft is there really any harm in recognising that your characters may be are predominantly white and straight?

Representation in games I do believe is important. Should characters be so outwardly gay it's shoved down people's throat, no. Does it hurt to however adapt the story to include that maybe a character is gay? Also no.

I feel like much of the negative reaction is mostly based on those very biases these tool is designed to avoid. No-one is denying white, straight males should exist in games, but does it honestly ruin your game to at least design and build out a black gay character, or someone with a disability, or someone struggling with mental health?

Look at Torbjörn's and Zarya's scores. Somehow she gets a higher score in Culture when she is Russian and he is Swedish. Is Russian more special/unique than Swedish? Personally I see more Russians in games than I do Swedish. She also has a higher body score even though she is just a normal bodied women who was a weightlifter/bodybuilder while Torbjörn is an extremely short slightly chunky dude missing an arm and an eye. How is a bodybuilder more unique/special than an amputee "dwarf"? Clearly this tool has its own biases coded into it.

[arkanon]

I am what weirdo losers would call “woke”.

Ok, i only ask because in your previous post you called yourself woke.

[NineSpine]

Ok, i only ask because in your previous post you called yourself woke.

It was in the context of the framing provided by weirdo anti-woke online crusaders.

[Syncr]

I am what weirdo losers would call “woke”.

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If you think there’s no difference between “I had an idea five years ago” and “I worked on this for five years”. Ok then.

Ok I have a question for you, do you think they mentioned the 5 year thing and what they really meant was “yeah so we saw this issue 5 years ago and we just now decided to make it”.

That is clearly implying this is how long they spent “working” or “brain storming” on this project. Your conspiratorial gene is flaring up SUPER hard in this thread LOL.

Oh wait here are blizzards actual words

Started in 2016, the Diversity Space Tool–currently in beta–was designed as an optional supplement to the hard work and focus our teams already place on telling diverse stories with diverse characters, but decisions regarding in-game content have been and will always be driven by development teams. The tool was developed at King, and has been beta tested by several developers across the company, all of whom have provided valuable input.

So it seems you’re wrong in your conspiratorial guesses

[Nymrohd]

It’s just like garbage anti-racism corporate training. “Woke” people hate that shit too. We just don’t spend our time crying about it. We laugh at it and move on to working on actual solutions.

Well I don't really laugh at it because it is mostly counter-productive.
It still ends up with some representation instead of none so I guess it's better than nothing.

[Daedius]

wat
.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Because modern game development sort of nurtures that mindset. One of the WoW devs was adamant in making Ardenweald effectively 50/50 in gender ratio. While I personally didn't really care (nor would I have even noticed unless it was explicitly pointed out by them), making such things into a highly-conscious decision makes the "Numbers and charts" thing not too far of a logical leap.

can you point to any modern game or development that actually uses that Mindset and try’s to break every one up into numbers or is this just the “game has woman/minority lead so is woke” nonesense?

[Nymrohd]

Ok I have a question for you, do you think they mentioned the 5 year thing and what they really meant was “yeah so we saw this issue 5 years ago and we just now decided to make it”.

That is clearly implying this is how long they spent “working” or “brain storming” on this project. Your conspiratorial gene is flaring up SUPER hard in this thread LOL.

These people kept getting drunk at work and groping the few unlucky females they employed because they thought that was their only chance to find a girlfriend at least as late as two years ago. You really think they in any way cared about diversity?

[NineSpine]

Ok I have a question for you, do you think they mentioned the 5 year thing and what they really meant was “yeah so we saw this issue 5 years ago and we just now decided to make it”.

That is clearly implying this is how long they spent “working” or “brain storming” on this project. Your conspiratorial gene is flaring up SUPER hard in this thread LOL.

It says the system was developed by MIT, not by King.

This isn’t conspiratorial. This is just not inserting a narrative into what the article says. It says they started thinking about it five years ago and then started developing this system after they partnered with MIT. That’s what it says. I don’t know why you are so horny to add all this other shit that isn’t in the article.

[Aedruid]

1st world problems

[Hctaz]

So, looking at Torbjorn's stats, a skinny young white straight white guy would be 'bad', but an old, short, muscled guy would score pretty decent, even if he didnt have a robot arm?

More importantly, how the fuck is Zarya straight? There's no shot. There is no chance. Not a CHANCE she doesn't even KINDA like the ladies.

Not even stereotyping her looks and saying that she looks like a lesbian, I mean it in the sense that it would be a legitimate crime against females attracted to other females everywhere if she didn't dabble with the ladies. My wife is pansexual, and Zarya is 100% on her list of video game characters who are attractive.

[Syncr]

It says the system was developed by MIT, not by King.

This isn’t conspiratorial. This is just not inserting a narrative into what the article says. It says they started thinking about it five years ago and then started developing this system after they partnered with MIT. That’s what it says. I don’t know why you are so horny to add all this other shit that isn’t in the article.

This article?

In 2016, King began developing a method for guarding against unconscious bias and exclusion when it came to the creation of their games and characters. At the time, this idea existed as an intangible philosophy, but the potential was obvious.

Enter the MIT Game Lab. Alongside King, the MIT techs helped turn a mission statement into tangible software that would create and monitor guidelines for character conception and creation, looking into all the ways basic elements such as gender, body type, roles (“heroes” vs. “villains”) and even such granular factors such as pose, or body movement, can suggest powerful things about a character one way or another. According to King Globalization Project Manager Jacqueline Chomatas, once MIT handed over the basic software, the team at King spent the last few years honing and developing it, mostly as a volunteer effort. People were spending their off-hours working on the tool, simply because they believed in its potential so much.

The one that repeatedly says that they started working on it in 2016?

What you’re saying is an actual program didn’t come to light until after that, which isn’t what I said. You don’t have to have an actual software developed in order to be working on something. That’s not how jobs work.

When I say “they have been working on it for 5 years” this is what I’m referring to. They have spent this much time and effort into making a tool like this.

So once again. You just presented to me a distinction with no difference. It doesn’t change what I said at all.

[Celement]

There are literally only two kinds of people: people who want progress and people who don’t want progress. That’s a true dichotomy.

The word you want is change not progression. It is not good nor evil only not the same.

[Syncr]

These people kept getting drunk at work and groping the few unlucky females they employed because they thought that was their only chance to find a girlfriend at least as late as two years ago. You really think they in any way cared about diversity?

No company ever has ever given a shit about anything to do with diversity. The issue is when they are doing things like this because they want a certain “image” they are going for. And it just fucks everything up.

[NineSpine]

This article?
The one that repeatedly says that they started working on it in 2016?

What you’re saying is an actual program didn’t come to light until after that, which isn’t what I said. You don’t have to have an actual software developed in order to be working on something. That’s not how jobs work.

When I say “they have been working on it for 5 years” this is what I’m referring to. They have spent this much time and effort into making a tool like this.

So once again. You just presented to me a distinction with no difference. It doesn’t change what I said at all.

"At the time, this idea existed as an intangible philosophy, but the potential was obvious."

If you want to consider "intangible philosophy" to be the same as developing a specific program, sure.

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No company ever has ever given a shit about anything to do with diversity. The issue is when they are doing things like this because they want a certain “image” they are going for. And it just fucks everything up.

Lots of companies give a shit about diversity in that diversity is good for business almost universally.

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The word you want is change not progression. It is not good nor evil only not the same.

No, the word I want is "progress". Making things better is definitionally good.

[Doombringer]

So there is literally a checklist for inclusion they're funneling everything through. Wonderful.

Inclusion isn't bad. Feeding values to a computer to spit back an algorithmic assessment of whether you are unwoke, just woke enough, or possibly too woke is ... hugely overthinking it. And making the process so extremely cold.

Yes, I'm using woke facetiously. Relax.

As the tweet read... we have eyes, ears, and hearts. Creators have these things. This really doesn't need to boil down to a mathematical theorem to strike a good balance of representation with your characters, writing, and storytelling in general.

[Syncr]

"At the time, this idea existed as an intangible philosophy, but the potential was obvious."

If you want to consider "intangible philosophy" to be the same as developing a specific program, sure.

When it comes to my point about them spending time on it and working on it then yes, yes it is the same. My point was only there to highlight the amount of time they have spent on it. Again, your distinction makes no difference.

Lots of companies give a shit about diversity in that diversity is good for business almost universally.

I really really hate to break this to you, but they don’t. Companies care about money, and that’s it. If diversity brings them money then they will go toward that, but that doesn’t mean they now care about diversity. They care how diversity is effecting the money they get.

If the outcome to cost ratio doesn’t add up then it would be dropped.

Just like when blizzard says “customer satisfaction is number one priority to us” and then turn around and fire most of their CS staff and now we deal with bots. It’s a cost thing so they went with what made them more money. That’s how the world works.

[Talon8669]

What happened to just hiring the most qualified person for the job. This world is going to shit so fast, I'd get out the popcorn and watch it all burn if it weren't for the fact I have to leave this crap for my kids to deal with.

[NineSpine]

I really really hate to break this to you, but they don’t. Companies care about money, and that’s it. If diversity brings them money then they will go toward that, but that doesn’t mean they now care about diversity. They care how diversity is effecting the money they get.

And you are lecturing me on "distinction without a difference"?

If I say "They care about X, because X is good for business" what the fuck do you think I mean besides "They care about X because it makes them money"?

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What happened to just hiring the most qualified person for the job. This world is going to shit so fast, I'd get out the popcorn and watch it all burn if it weren't for the fact I have to leave this crap for my kids to deal with.

Well for one thing, this has nothing to do with hiring anyone so you look like a weirdo rambling about that in this thread.

[agentsi]

Fucking barf... 100% no thank you. Stop it with the bullshit inclusion shit. It only hurts the game and makes people not want to play. People want to be separated by skill, not by other factors.

I'm fine with anyone saying something racist or misogynistic getting instantly banned but just stop it there. The problem will correct itself from that point forward. Punish the people who are the problem, don't punish everyone because of a couple of bad apples. When you pay $30-$60 for a game and get banned for being a dickhead, you will think twice before you have to spend another $30-$60 again. And if the game is free to play, follow the same rules. These people that they're hunting, won't be able to contain themselves. They will always fuck up.

But in reality, this is political correctness going too far. When the truth is now offensive, you need to wake the fuck up and stop being so delusional.