The story won't be good again until

[Aucald]

Good thing he's being blamed for story then, isn't it?

Depends on who's doing the blaming. He's blamed for the story here, more or less, but I've seen him blamed for everything from Shadowlands' borrowed power systems to the proliferation of P2P gray markets. I've also seen him blamed for stories he had no part in like Cata, WoD, and even (bizarrely enough) TBC's stories.

[Godric]

I'm surprised he still has his job to be honest, considering how much outrage the playerbase has had over his work.

[Feanoro]

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. I especially like his second one. He somehow jumped from something like "blaming the story writer guy for a system you don't like even though it's not his thing" to a wide, sweeping generalization that "nothing unpopular is Blizz's fault with no input from their employees".

I'm terribly sorry that you can't follow what I said. Aucald stated that high profile Blizzard employees become lightning rods. I stated that their defenders make ludicrous claims in their defense, like how this thread sees you trying to claim Danuser bears no responsibility for the story, despite that being his job.

You can also tell he's biased simply by the word usage.

Ah yes, and you're a shining example of objectivity, no doubt.

[Cloudmaker]

True!

I'm interested to see what a full-fledged Danuser expansion would look like without interferance from past fuck-ups.

When Dragonflight is over, we might think different regarding Danuser

I am not so sure about that. He disappointed on so many occasions, but we will see.

[Feanoro]

Depends on who's doing the blaming. He's blamed for the story here, more or less, but I've seen him blamed for everything from Shadowlands' borrowed power systems to the proliferation of P2P gray markets. I've also seen him blamed for stories he had no part in like Cata, WoD, and even (bizarrely enough) TBC's stories.

Great, but since the topic was about the current story, any attempts to drag in that irrelevant incorrect blaming is just muddying the waters. My point, to anticipate your sad "gotcha", is that the Blizzard Defense Force tries to claim that unpopular design and story choices cannot be blamed on anyone. That's patently absurd.

Yes in fact, as a team leader, Danuser bears responsibility for his team. If not, then Blizzard is the single most unique corporation... no, the single most unique organization of humans in existence.

[RobertMugabe]

I'm surprised he still has his job to be honest, considering how much outrage the playerbase has had over his work.

It's a small echo chamber of players that are outraged by him lmao.

The same people you see here on MMOC are also the same people who keep talking about WoW on reddit, twitter and twitch. What you perceive to be the millions of wow players or ex players posting online and raging about danuser are actually maybe a thousand people at maximum who make 99% of all posts. Took me years to find that out myself ngl and see the same people's nanes pop up on these other platforms.

[Aucald]

Great, but since the topic was about the current story, any attempts to drag in that irrelevant incorrect blaming is just muddying the waters. My point, to anticipate your sad "gotcha", is that the Blizzard Defense Force tries to claim that unpopular design and story choices cannot be blamed on anyone. That's patently absurd.

Yes in fact, as a team leader, Danuser bears responsibility for his team. If not, then Blizzard is the single most unique corporation... no, the single most unique organization of humans in existence.

The thread topic is about the current story, but the post I was replying to, which you opted to weigh in on, was about the notion of specific individuals and their role as hate-sinks for the player base's irritations and annoyances. I also pointedly and specifically said they certainly *can* bear responsibility and blame, but as totems, often are the subjects of complaints they aren't actually responsible for.

Danuser, or whoever is in charge of the narrative at any given time, bears the responsibility from an organizational standpoint in the company, sure. But as people who know how departments work, and that individuals aren't necessarily unilaterally responsible for every iota of a given project, I would still say it's somewhat on us to recognize that maybe blaming a single individual for the collected output of a team (or an entire organization) is perhaps the lazy way to go about it. YMMV, of course.

[Feanoro]

Danuser, or whoever is in charge of the narrative at any given time, bears the responsibility from an organizational standpoint in the company, sure. But as people who know how departments work, and that individuals aren't necessarily unilaterally responsible for every iota of a given project, I would still say it's somewhat on us to recognize that maybe blaming a single individual for the collected output of a team (or an entire organization) is perhaps the lazy way to go about it. YMMV, of course.

Or, given that there is no realistic way whatsoever under the current model for us to know who is responsible for exactly what bits, blaming the team leader is the only option available, because, as we agree, that person is responsible for the team's output.

[Gaidax]

until... some people take a chill pill.

I think there is a gap between objective criticism and the incessant bullshit usually going on here. Of course all these memes about the token "enemy of the people" of the day aren't helping either.

All in all, Dragonflight will probably be the first time so far where it will be a completely "new" lore team's from scratch, without being forced to go down the rabbit hole laid out by predecessors. So it remains to be seen if these "Danuser bad and evil" memes survive that.

[Swnem]

I'm afraid i agree.

But, it's not only that. The method the story is delivered is also outdated. The storytelling needs more character and world development, needs to recognise our character as more than a stranger and needs to not be tied to the raid. The story has to be able to go at it's own pace.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a small echo chamber of players that are outraged by him lmao.

The same people you see here on MMOC are also the same people who keep talking about WoW on reddit, twitter and twitch. What you perceive to be the millions of wow players or ex players posting online and raging about danuser are actually maybe a thousand people at maximum who make 99% of all posts. Took me years to find that out myself ngl and see the same people's nanes pop up on these other platforms.

You are right. The millions of players left. Which is why it's surprising many in the team still have a job. Most players don't care to come here and complain. They just leave without a word.

[Ersula]

Difference is that those two never gave off the same pretentious aura that Danuser does

Danuser is like three figures down from Colton or Metzen. He's only in charge of the story because several directors were fired.

[Atrea]

Difference is that those two never gave off the same pretentious aura that Danuser does

I can't believe someone is unironically suggesting that Greg "My ego takes up an entire" Street was not a pretentious fucking narcissist who lived off of a supply of his own farts and smoke being blown up his ass from empty compliments his sockpuppets made to him.

[Mehrunes]

Given that Danuser probably didn't just stumble upon his job by accident (then again you never know with Blizzard and its penchant for hiring guild mates of other developers, vide Afrasiabi), that wouldn't change shit. The fish rots from the head and Danuser is maybe around the pectoral fins. Unless the higher ups stop treating the story as an afterthought to be mostly done by unpaid, overworked interns with no experience writing their own name, let alone a story (hard to explain its quality otherwise) they'd just replace him with someone just as inept.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The story won't be good again until

Let me stop you right there. The Warcraft story will never be good again. People need to stop being upset that there isn't anything good coming out of their beloved franchises like Star Wars and Star Trek or Warcraft. Star Wars, Trek, and Warcraft are dead folks. It's not coming back. The cool people who made Warcraft what it is are long gone. The franchise is now owned by a soulless corporation run by pansies. You'll never get the badass epic Warcraft back. You need to let go and move on with your life. It's important to look at things that aren't your favorite franchise.

[Smallfruitbat]

Let me stop you right there. The Warcraft story will never be good again. People need to stop being upset that there isn't anything good coming out of their beloved franchises like Star Wars and Star Trek or Warcraft. Star Wars, Trek, and Warcraft are dead folks. It's not coming back. The cool people who made Warcraft what it is are long gone. The franchise is now owned by a soulless corporation run by pansies. You'll never get the badass epic Warcraft back. You need to let go and move on with your life. It's important to look at things that aren't your favorite franchise.

^^ this!

When profit drives something creativity suffers, regardless of who is at the helm.

[czarek]

Steve Danuser is sacked. After BFA and Shadowlands screw ups in the lore and don't get me started on how they screwed up Arthas and Sylvanas. I don't think Dragon Flight's lore is going to be good as long as this guy is lead helm in the story department.

You know that whole SL story were written like years ago before Danuser jump in.

[Bloodbayne]

Remember when it was Ghostcrawler or Metzen who were blamed for everything and people said the game wouldn't be good again until they were gone?

Ghostcrawler wasn't a story guy and nobody said that about Metzen...he's like the father of all the starting lore from Warcraft 2 and 3 basically. Couple of others in there but yeah, your response doesn't make much sense if you know what you're talking about.

[cparle87]

Ghostcrawler wasn't a story guy and nobody said that about Metzen...he's like the father of all the starting lore from Warcraft 2 and 3 basically. Couple of others in there but yeah, your response doesn't make much sense if you know what you're talking about.

Someone in the thread literally used the Green Jesus meme? You know, the Metzen version of the "Nathanos is just Danuser's self insert cause he loves Sylvanas" complaint? Remember when everyone was screaming in Cataclysm cause they said Metzen's "self insert" was dominating everything? Yeah, I know a decade is a long time ago to remember stuff.

[DookuDookuTree]

Someone in the thread literally used the Green Jesus meme? You know, the Metzen version of the "Nathanos is just Danuser's self insert cause he loves Sylvanas" complaint? Remember when everyone was screaming in Cataclysm cause they said Metzen's "self insert" was dominating everything? Yeah, I know a decade is a long time ago to remember stuff.

Taste my raptors you little cretin.

[Stormwolf64]

Until blizzard fires each and every woke pos in the company. Seriously.