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  1. #81
    The real deal, of gold making. Theres at least 1-2 massive GDKP runs per week for full runs and big time payouts.

  2. #82
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    The real deal, of gold making. Theres at least 1-2 massive GDKP runs per week for full runs and big time payouts.
    Yeah, but good luck getting taken to those unless you are an oiler or a 99% parser, and even then it's a HUGE competition for spots.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    And every rotation is far more than 1-2 buttons.
    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...done&source=28

    GCD count we're looking at

    142 shadowbolts
    6 curse gcds
    1 shadowburn

    That's a world top 3 parse.

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...=true&source=5

    Also a world top 3 parse

    128 fireballs
    17 scorches
    1 fire blast

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...done&source=14

    156 lightning bolts
    25 chain lightnings


    Basically if you're a caster you're probably a two button class. Holy Paladins and Restoration Shamans are basically one button classes in Sunwell.


    The numbers tuning in Sunwell is fairly harsh but not really too dissimilar to pre-nerf Vashj or Sapphiron without world buffs.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2022-05-20 at 01:41 AM.

  4. #84
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...done&source=28

    GCD count we're looking at

    142 shadowbolts
    6 curse gcds
    1 shadowburn

    That's a world top 3 parse.

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...=true&source=5

    Also a world top 3 parse

    128 fireballs
    17 scorches
    1 fire blast

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...done&source=14

    156 lightning bolts
    25 chain lightnings


    Basically if you're a caster you're probably a two button class. Holy Paladins and Restoration Shamans are basically one button classes in Sunwell.


    The numbers tuning in Sunwell is fairly harsh but not really too dissimilar to pre-nerf Vashj or Sapphiron without world buffs.
    Hunter wasn't that much better iirc. It was a macro for bm.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...done&source=28

    GCD count we're looking at

    142 shadowbolts
    6 curse gcds
    1 shadowburn

    That's a world top 3 parse.

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...=true&source=5

    Also a world top 3 parse

    128 fireballs
    17 scorches
    1 fire blast

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...done&source=14

    156 lightning bolts
    25 chain lightnings


    Basically if you're a caster you're probably a two button class. Holy Paladins and Restoration Shamans are basically one button classes in Sunwell.
    Forget it he must be delusional.

    As I said I will give in that you can't fool around in swp like in mc due to the stat check being more serious but mechanically gameplay is still a joke with everyone and their grandmother being able to do it.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Hunter wasn't that much better iirc. It was a macro for bm.
    Using the Macro is worse dps overall and doesn't even work in TBCC afaik.

    People figured out that, depending on your haste, you can weave in Arcane / Multi shot into your rotation.
    There'a a WA that basically tells you what buttons to press depending on your haste.

    Then there's also what is known as melee weaving, which basically requires pixel perfect positioning for a solid dps gain, but is usually not done by most hunters because it's too much of a hassle.

    https://tbc.wowhead.com/guides/hunte...rusade-classic
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    As I said I will give in that you can't fool around in swp like in mc due to the stat check being more serious but mechanically gameplay is still a joke with everyone and their grandmother being able to do it.
    I disagree on that count.

    First off, on a Boss like Kalecgos you need individual responsibility, with people figuring out when they go down, as your raid must split in a proper fashion.
    You need enough healers in the Dragon Realm, but also at least one in the Demon one.
    You need at least one decurser in the Dragon realm.
    Dps can't just sit brain afk in the Dragon realm, as the dps on the demon is what counts.

    And so forth, the fight isn't too complicated but it's certainly not a fight you'll just outgear.

    Similiar thing on Felmyst, if your priest slack on the Mass dispel or target the wrong area, you'll struggle, people also need to position themselves accordingly in order to get hit by Mass dispel.
    Encapsulate target needs heals within ~3 seconds or it's a goner, nevermind the people near it who also die within 2-3 seconds if they don't get any healing.

    On Eredar twins, your healers continously need to heal a multitude of random targets, if they don't do that, well, they're gone.

    On M'uru, your tank needs to move out away from M'uru before Darkness comes out, else they're gone and thus will wipe the raid.
    Your dps also has to watch their threat on an encounter that is tuning wise pretty tight.
    A priest fucking up the mass dispel can also easily spiral into a wipe (or someone standing too close where the Dark fiends spawn).
    Interrupts need to be managed as well, as else the mages will kill your tanks / not die as they're not stacking up on their own.

    On KJ, it's basically a dance of stacking up and spreading out, while you also have to stay near the drake in order to make it into the shield, while the entire raid continously takes random damage and has to kept over 4-5k hp.

    It's not super challenging but saying SWP is basically MC but actually tuned properly is just false.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-05-20 at 10:52 AM.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    I'd say 99% play Classic to reexperience nostalgia and indirectly parts of their youth. Objectively, Classic is far worse at most parts, but we have fond memories and we like it because of those memories. This is a game for dads and old people, why would young people with a competitive mind ever chose Classic over Retail?
    Yep, people played for almost 3 years just because of nostalgia.

  8. #88
    Classic is Retail.

  9. #89
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    Yep, people played for almost 3 years just because of nostalgia.
    They did, you really, really underestimate how the brain works. My dad, as an example, listened to like 10-20 bands in the 70s and 80s, when he studied etc and had the best time of his life. Now, nearly 40 years later, he STILL listen to the same music over and over and over, and nostalgia is the main reason. And my dad is not alone in this.

    People tend to value nostalgia a lot! Why do you think there has been private servers for Classic for nearly 15 years before we got the official servers? NOSTALGIA.

    People played Classic+TBC and will play WotLK for nostalgia alone, and we do the same thing in 10 years if they re-launch classic-classic etc.

    It's been said many times and it's 100% true, Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    They did, you really, really underestimate how the brain works. My dad, as an example, listened to like 10-20 bands in the 70s and 80s, when he studied etc and had the best time of his life. Now, nearly 40 years later, he STILL listen to the same music over and over and over, and nostalgia is the main reason. And my dad is not alone in this.

    People tend to value nostalgia a lot! Why do you think there has been private servers for Classic for nearly 15 years before we got the official servers? NOSTALGIA.

    People played Classic+TBC and will play WotLK for nostalgia alone, and we do the same thing in 10 years if they re-launch classic-classic etc.

    It's been said many times and it's 100% true, Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
    Nostalgia doesn't last for 3+ years... I'm not sure what you're smoking.

  11. #91
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Was just reading some post thread from 2008, cause of classic.

    It is amazing to see how back then you could see 2/10 toxic or out of tone replies.
    Now you see nearly all the replies being toxic or out of tone.

    What happened and when? I guess it has been a transition.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    They did, you really, really underestimate how the brain works. My dad, as an example, listened to like 10-20 bands in the 70s and 80s, when he studied etc and had the best time of his life. Now, nearly 40 years later, he STILL listen to the same music over and over and over, and nostalgia is the main reason. And my dad is not alone in this.

    People tend to value nostalgia a lot! Why do you think there has been private servers for Classic for nearly 15 years before we got the official servers? NOSTALGIA.

    People played Classic+TBC and will play WotLK for nostalgia alone, and we do the same thing in 10 years if they re-launch classic-classic etc.

    It's been said many times and it's 100% true, Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
    Nostalgia... what? is been 3 years basically since classic. And by the look of things, tones of people will also play AT LEAST until ICC... meaning, all WotLK.

    Will you then still call it nostalgia, 4 years /4 and a half after? lol
    It´s like saying that someone is terminal because they will one day die when they are old.

    It is not, it is simply loving World of Warcraft. And classic versions happen to offer the real, original World of Warcraft experience and you simply can´t deny this as that is a fact
    You can keep playing the curret version, it´s fine, but please, let us enjoy the real World of Warcrat No, it is not nostalgia, it is simply enjoying it.

  12. #92
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Sunwell does not have difficult mechanics, it has exceptionally tight tuning.

    Execution takes a backseat to optimisation. The skill ceiling for actual in fight play is lower than say pre-nerf Vashj. However the pre-fight prep and planning is far more intricate.

    Most of the wipes are down to making strategy adjustments, and not because people fucked up.


    Sports and Fitness mod, Brit with weird sleeping hours.
    Has good taste in ale, bad taste in D&D choices.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Was just reading some post thread from 2008, cause of classic.

    It is amazing to see how back then you could see 2/10 toxic or out of tone replies.
    Now you see nearly all the replies being toxic or out of tone.

    What happened and when? I guess it has been a transition.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Nostalgia... what? is been 3 years basically since classic. And by the look of things, tones of people will also play AT LEAST until ICC... meaning, all WotLK.

    Will you then still call it nostalgia, 4 years /4 and a half after? lol
    It´s like saying that someone is terminal because they will one day die when they are old.

    It is not, it is simply loving World of Warcraft. And classic versions happen to offer the real, original World of Warcraft experience and you simply can´t deny this as that is a fact
    You can keep playing the curret version, it´s fine, but please, let us enjoy the real World of Warcrat No, it is not nostalgia, it is simply enjoying it.
    No it's definitely nostalgia. It's letting them partially live a part of their lives that they might have enjoyed. Nostalgia doesn't have a time limit.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No it's definitely nostalgia. It's letting them partially live a part of their lives that they might have enjoyed. Nostalgia doesn't have a time limit.
    No it's not and yes it does. You cannot play a game for 3 years just for nostalgia, those people disappeared a few months into Classic. People are playing it because they enjoy it and legitimately prefer the old style and systems over the new ones.

    It's not hard to understand. People enjoy different things including things that you don't...

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    No it's not and yes it does. You cannot play a game for 3 years just for nostalgia, those people disappeared a few months into Classic. People are playing it because they enjoy it and legitimately prefer the old style and systems over the new ones.

    It's not hard to understand. People enjoy different things including things that you don't...
    ....which is what nostalgia is. Those who prefer the old version of the game over retail are definitely being nostalgic. Again, there is no time limit.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nostalgia

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Hunter wasn't that much better iirc. It was a macro for bm.
    Wasn't there a point in TBC where a hunter could macro literally his entire rotation to a castsequence macro and just keep tapping it?
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    You cannot play a game for 3 years just for nostalgia, those people disappeared a few months into Classic. People are playing it because they enjoy it and legitimately prefer the old style and systems over the new ones.
    That's complete nonsense. As soon as Classic was announced all I was waiting for was the announcement of TBC to know whether Blizzard was going to be doing a one-off, or whether this'll be something I can progress through again.

    I started in late Classic to ensure I found a guild, and essentially I've used TBC as a waiting room for Wrath. I've found a good guild, I've got the collectable items I want, I've had fun, but I've honestly not enjoyed TBC as much as I would enjoy Wrath & Cataclysm.

    There are ample people out there who are playing currently because they're wanting to get back into the swing of things, find those communities and get ready for another element of the game.

  18. #98
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Wasn't there a point in TBC where a hunter could macro literally his entire rotation to a castsequence macro and just keep tapping it?
    Yea i remember doing that as bm.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #99
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    Nostalgia doesn't last for 3+ years... I'm not sure what you're smoking.

    It can apparently last almost 15 years, cause that's how long private classic servers existed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Was just reading some post thread from 2008, cause of classic.

    It is amazing to see how back then you could see 2/10 toxic or out of tone replies.
    Now you see nearly all the replies being toxic or out of tone.

    What happened and when? I guess it has been a transition.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Nostalgia... what? is been 3 years basically since classic. And by the look of things, tones of people will also play AT LEAST until ICC... meaning, all WotLK.

    Will you then still call it nostalgia, 4 years /4 and a half after? lol
    It´s like saying that someone is terminal because they will one day die when they are old.

    It is not, it is simply loving World of Warcraft. And classic versions happen to offer the real, original World of Warcraft experience and you simply can´t deny this as that is a fact
    You can keep playing the curret version, it´s fine, but please, let us enjoy the real World of Warcrat No, it is not nostalgia, it is simply enjoying it.

    Of course it's nostalgia. I enjoy Classic, but it's only because of the memories. Objectively, this game is FAR worse than later expansion of the game. The game peaked in around WoD/Legion, and has become worse in BFA/SL tho, but still modern WoW is better no matter how you look at it.

    Compare PvP as an example, right now it's still unbalanced and quite clunky. I play Hunter, and compared to retail Hunter, it's just awful. Movement, CC, damage abilitis, ALL are improved in Retail and it's so much more smooth and polished today.

    The game has (naturally) evolved and become better. But people like Classic cause it's the game they grow up with. I have super fond memories of going to high school during the original TBC and exploring new zones and raids with my classmates. I remember being poor, and a friend gave me some gold in return for me helping him with some homework. Those were the days, I had the time of my life, and considering I played a lot of TBC during that time, ofc I remember TBC fondly. Nostalgia is powerful. But the fact remain that TBC is possibly the WORST of the expansions if you start to analyze it.

    Subjectively Classic is awesome, regardless what I wrote, I LOVE Classic to death, but it's because of nostalgia and memories.
    Objectively Classic tho, as a game, compared to the later expansion, is pure GARBAGE. Garbage I love, that we all love.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    ....which is what nostalgia is. Those who prefer the old version of the game over retail are definitely being nostalgic. Again, there is no time limit.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nostalgia
    No it's not. You are completely disregarding any sort of quality or preference... Just saying "IT'S NOSTALGIA" because it's older is irrelevant. People prefer the older version because the newer one is dire. Simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    It can apparently last almost 15 years, cause that's how long private classic servers existed.
    And what does that have to do with nostalgia? Not sure how many times I have to repeat myself but people actually prefer and ENJOY the older systems and the game, not everyone likes where WoW has gone and how much it's changed.

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