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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Wylyth1992's Avatar
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    They Should Not Remove The Ability For Hunters To Be Melee

    I don't care if it means getting a fourth spec if Survival goes back to Ranged, please, do not remove Melee Hunter. I like the feel and class fantasy of it, and I'm sure many others do.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    I don't care if it means getting a fourth spec if Survival goes back to Ranged, please, do not remove Melee Hunter. I like the feel and class fantasy of it, and I'm sure many others do.
    I don't think there's been any talk of Blizzard doing so? I think you're fine.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Wylyth1992's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    I don't think there's been any talk of Blizzard doing so? I think you're fine.
    It was more I have seen people saying Survival should go back to how it was before Legion (as a Ranged spec)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    It was more I have seen people saying Survival should go back to how it was before Legion (as a Ranged spec)
    i understand what you mean and i think most people wouldnt mind having a 4th specc or meele/range option as a talent. The biggest issue with survival was that RSV was taken away completly from those who used to play it. The idea of a meele hunter isnt unfit for the class but as usual with blizzard, they have decent ideas but absolute stupid ways to implement things.

    As things looks right now it think survival will stick to being meele, so unless they pull a 180 or add a talent for ranged, survival will stay meele no matter if people like it or not.

    Also another thing to note, thanks to survivals rework to meele in legion, they at the same time screwed over MMs talent tree. But at this point it doesnt matter for me much what happens to the hunter class, ive rerolled since the hunter class today is just a (in my opinion) a former shell of itself.

  5. #5
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    I don't care if it means getting a fourth spec if Survival goes back to Ranged, please, do not remove Melee Hunter. I like the feel and class fantasy of it, and I'm sure many others do.
    I don't think they will, but I honestly wished BM was the melee spec

    That way Marksman could have been the physical damage spec and Survival be the magic damage spec

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    It was more I have seen people saying Survival should go back to how it was before Legion (as a Ranged spec)
    It was basically MM w/ MAgic Damage. They can add that crap back into MM and BM. Surv will stay Melee.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    It was basically MM w/ MAgic Damage. They can add that crap back into MM and BM. Surv will stay Melee.
    MM and surv played nothing alike thought. Besides they did add some of the former surv stuff into the MM tree which in turn screwed over MM hunters. Meele hunter should just been a 4th specc to be honest instead of screwing over 2 speccs at the same time. Like i said before, blizzard have decent ideas but complete braindead implemention methods.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaloff View Post
    MM and surv played nothing alike thought. Besides they did add some of the former surv stuff into the MM tree which in turn screwed over MM hunters. Meele hunter should just been a 4th specc to be honest instead of screwing over 2 speccs at the same time. Like i said before, blizzard have decent ideas but complete braindead implemention methods.
    After the removal of ArP at the end of Wrath and cast times added back to Aimed Shot and such (with the exception of Tier 18 set bonus in WoD) Survival took over that play style. Instead of:
    Kill Shot > Serpent Sting > Chimera Shot > Aimed Shot > Arcane Shot > Steady Shot
    as your hierarchy, it became:

    Serpent Sting -> Explosive Shot > Kill Shot > Black Arrow > Arcane Shot > Cobra Shot
    The individual mechanics of the shots were different, like how MM had to reapply Serpent Sting where as Cata Survival only had to apply it once since Cobra Shot would refresh it, but it's basically the same. You have a shot hierarchy and you followed it and you could move around. When Aimed Shot had its cast time added back you lost the mobility.

    It's hierarchy/rotation in Cata became:

    Serpent Sting -> Steady Shot x2 > Chimera Shot > Aimed Shot (when you had 5 stacks of Master Marksman which made it instant) > Kill Shot > Steady Shot x1 > Aimed/Arcane Shot (Focus dump)
    It required much more management compared to Survival, yes, but still the same basic play style.

  9. #9
    4th spec? DPS classes do not need 4 specs.

  10. #10
    Yeah they should just add more variety to BM and MM instead. Survival as a melee spec is really fun and unique, at least in PVP.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Nathreim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    I don't care if it means getting a fourth spec if Survival goes back to Ranged, please, do not remove Melee Hunter. I like the feel and class fantasy of it, and I'm sure many others do.
    Honestly with personal loot all hunter specs should just be able to use melee and ranged weapons again. Sure it may be just a stat stick for BM and MM but I always liked the look of having a melee weapon in addition to my gun or bow.

    Also it doesn't make much sense in lore to not carry a melee weapon as a hunter.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    After the removal of ArP at the end of Wrath and cast times added back to Aimed Shot and such (with the exception of Tier 18 set bonus in WoD) Survival took over that play style. Instead of:


    as your hierarchy, it became:



    The individual mechanics of the shots were different, like how MM had to reapply Serpent Sting where as Cata Survival only had to apply it once since Cobra Shot would refresh it, but it's basically the same. You have a shot hierarchy and you followed it and you could move around. When Aimed Shot had its cast time added back you lost the mobility.

    It's hierarchy/rotation in Cata became:



    It required much more management compared to Survival, yes, but still the same basic play style.
    fair but that still doesnt justify nuking RSV completly like blizzard did

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    Honestly with personal loot all hunter specs should just be able to use melee and ranged weapons again. Sure it may be just a stat stick for BM and MM but I always liked the look of having a melee weapon in addition to my gun or bow.

    Also it doesn't make much sense in lore to not carry a melee weapon as a hunter.
    i wouldnt mind having both meele and ranged weapon back, allthought i wonder how blizzard would balance it thought, especielly since hunters dont have deadzone anymore.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaloff View Post
    fair but that still doesnt justify nuking RSV completly like blizzard did
    Because you had two specs that were virtually the same with the exception of physical vs magical damage. Plus it makes hunters more of a switch class like the the ones who can dps and/or heal/tank. Need more melee because your raid comp is too range heavy? Hunter can switch like Druid. Priests/Mages/Warlocks cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makaloff View Post
    i wouldnt mind having both meele and ranged weapon back, allthought i wonder how blizzard would balance it thought, especielly since hunters dont have deadzone anymore.
    Which would require them to add the MH/OH slots for hunters as well as the ranged slots for everyone else again. Which means we'll be fighting rogues for bows/xbows again like we did in Vanilla/BC/Wrath.

  14. #14
    I think they could balance survival easily around if you have a ranged pet you have ranged abilities if you have a melee pet you have melee abilities, it's pretty simple.
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  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire
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    Honestly I feel they dun messed up from the start in Legion when they picked Survival.

    BM is the natural "in melee with your pet duking it out" spec with abilities like Flanking Strike, right now your main ability as BM is your toon pointing at your target. Meanwhile that would let them turn MM into a physical hardcasting spec that requires planning movement ahead and higher skill to pull off while turning Surv into a low floor high ceiling multidotter spec that lets the noobs playing BM easily swap over but lets hardcores excel through dot management etc.

  16. #16
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    They will not remove melee hunters, no one cares about old survival, it was too similar to the other two specs. There's some people here who want it back but it's not like the opinion of people who don't play the game is important.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    Because you had two specs that were virtually the same with the exception of physical vs magical damage. Plus it makes hunters more of a switch class like the the ones who can dps and/or heal/tank. Need more melee because your raid comp is too range heavy? Hunter can switch like Druid. Priests/Mages/Warlocks cannot.



    Which would require them to add the MH/OH slots for hunters as well as the ranged slots for everyone else again. Which means we'll be fighting rogues for bows/xbows again like we did in Vanilla/BC/Wrath.
    i mean then we can take away arms or fury beacuse they play too similar. Having too many ranged have never been a issue since the game released and every new class introduced untill DF have always been meele. Blizzard simply could have made it a talent option or a 4th specc instead of taking away RSV. Speccs were built on the ground class and thats something that blizzard didnt understand in legion, and looking back on legion, the specc fantasy kinda screwed over alot, thats why they have to give stuff back again.

    Besides, you do are aware that current surv is quite close to how BM plays right? like, i dont mind meele hunter but atleast having a talent option would be a solution beacuse then everyone have a choice what they want to play. Still a issue is that MM got screwed due to cramming surv talents into the MM tree, so even if we still have 2 ranged speccs, not everyone wants to be shoehorned into BM or MM.

    For me personally the hunter class have fallen so bad in terms of gameplay i had to reroll, BM is dumpsterfire, MM is clunky and slow to play and not satisfying to play (for me atleast) and i certainly did not come to the hunter class to play meele, i already got a warrior and rogue if i wanna play meele for that.

    But once again, RSV biggest issue since legion was that RSV was taken away completly, it drove tons of people off the class, instead, blizzard could have listened to feedback (but then again, we know the reasons why they didnt), they could have solved it much better. Blizzards inability for consequence thinking and arrogance is the reason why we still discuss survival hunters 6 years and more down the line. Dont get me wrong, i dont oppose meele hunter, i oppose the way they took away a specc and replaced it with a meele specc instead of making it a talent or added as a 4th specc.

    Until Hunters get a proper rework and going back to their roots, i wont be touching my hunter. Atleast i can enjoy my hunter in classic TBC and cant wait to play RSV in wrath.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    They will not remove melee hunters, no one cares about old survival, it was too similar to the other two specs. There's some people here who want it back but it's not like the opinion of people who don't play the game is important.
    Ah yes, MM and BM for sure played very similar to survival, totally not different playstyles from wrath and onwards /s

    Alot of people who still talk about RSV plays the game, including me and there is plenty of people who want it back. The best thing would be to just add a talent to go ranged in survival or introduce it as a 4th specc and rename it. I think its wrong to take away from either party, and the reason people are mad about survival is beacuse RSV got taken away completly, the specc simply doesnt exsist anymore. Not to mention alot of people still cares about RSV, even top players in the world want it back so saying that "nobody cares" or "nobody cares" is simply very ignorant.

    If blizzard listened, we could all win from this rather than people being angry at each other, and here lies the issue: blizzard could have made a win/win with meele as a 4th specc but instead they took away the old specc and simply replaced it with a complete new specc that now is meele, hence why these discussions are still going strong beacuse its a massive sore that infects the hunter community years down the line. Even if i dont like play meele hunter, all i want is to have a ranged version of survival.

    Another issue with the rework of survival was that MM got screwed over hard with the talent tree, so they made both surv mains and MM mains irritated.

    So to conclude, adding a way for people to play survival as both ranged and meele would be the best option, both sides keeps what they want and blizzard wins too.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaloff View Post
    i mean then we can take away arms or fury beacuse they play too similar. Having too many ranged have never been a issue since the game released and every new class introduced untill DF have always been meele. Blizzard simply could have made it a talent option or a 4th specc instead of taking away RSV. Speccs were built on the ground class and thats something that blizzard didnt understand in legion, and looking back on legion, the specc fantasy kinda screwed over alot, thats why they have to give stuff back again.
    Very similar != Exact. Fury uses different mechanics since it is based on having two weapons and Arms is based on having one. The abilities for one would not work for the other.

    Besides, you do are aware that current surv is quite close to how BM plays right? like, i dont mind meele hunter but atleast having a talent option would be a solution beacuse then everyone have a choice what they want to play. Still a issue is that MM got screwed due to cramming surv talents into the MM tree, so even if we still have 2 ranged speccs, not everyone wants to be shoehorned into BM or MM.
    Oh? Like how both are range specs with the substantial portion of the damage being generated by the pet? Nice try but Raptor Strike, Carve, and Wildfire Bomb do not work up to 40yds like Cobra Shot and Barbed Shot.

    For me personally the hunter class have fallen so bad in terms of gameplay i had to reroll, BM is dumpsterfire, MM is clunky and slow to play and not satisfying to play (for me atleast) and i certainly did not come to the hunter class to play meele, i already got a warrior and rogue if i wanna play meele for that.
    Sorry to tell you this, but the $13-20/mo that Blizzard gets from you doesn't make you special enough that your whims alone dictate spec design. BM just got buffed and seems to be performing nicely. I'll agree with you on MM's being clunky and its lack of mobility is a sticking point, but those are issues that can be addressed in 10.0 with the return of talent trees sinced Blizzard thinks they solved the fatal flaw in them exposed in Wrath (40/21/0 BM Hunter anyone?).

    And no one cares if you didn't come to hunter to play melee. You just don't pick survival then. Kind of like if I role a Priest and I don't want to heal, then I guess I can only have Shadow as my spec.

    Until Hunters get a proper rework and going back to their roots, i wont be touching my hunter. Atleast i can enjoy my hunter in classic TBC and cant wait to play RSV in wrath.
    Oh well.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    Very similar != Exact. Fury uses different mechanics since it is based on having two weapons and Arms is based on having one. The abilities for one would not work for the other.



    Oh? Like how both are range specs with the substantial portion of the damage being generated by the pet? Nice try but Raptor Strike, Carve, and Wildfire Bomb do not work up to 40yds like Cobra Shot and Barbed Shot.



    Sorry to tell you this, but the $13-20/mo that Blizzard gets from you doesn't make you special enough that your whims alone dictate spec design. BM just got buffed and seems to be performing nicely. I'll agree with you on MM's being clunky and its lack of mobility is a sticking point, but those are issues that can be addressed in 10.0 with the return of talent trees sinced Blizzard thinks they solved the fatal flaw in them exposed in Wrath (40/21/0 BM Hunter anyone?).

    And no one cares if you didn't come to hunter to play melee. You just don't pick survival then. Kind of like if I role a Priest and I don't want to heal, then I guess I can only have Shadow as my spec.



    Oh well.
    Survival and BM/MM was different mechanic wise aswell, even if they shared same weapon.

    my point with the comment about BM is that survival borrows tons from BM, replace raptor strike with cobra shot and carve with multishot, and you pretty much have a BM.

    I never said that people should cater to me or similar, dont know where you got that idea from. Yea BM got buffed but blizzard really didnt solve the issue BM has (a flat dmg buff wont help them much sadly). As for MM my worry is that they arent gonna change much when it comes to the specc, especielly since MM didnt change much from BFA to SL, but then again we have yet to see what they change, hopefully we see some good changes for all the speccs. speaking of survival, even if i dont played the specc much, something i think would benefit them is that the focus generator isnt tied to the pet, having the pet die (in pvp for example) really cripples them and while we are lucky we dont have the KR packs anymore, i still think that the focus generator shouldnt be tied to the pet.

    As for Wrath BM hunter, i didnt play BM during wrath so dont know what you are refering to there.

    well, many people didnt come to the hunter class to play meele, but like i explained before, if meele was a talent option or a 4th specc, i think that would have spared everyone of all the salt and frustration over the specc. i dont oppose a meele specc at all, my problem with was that we got a specc taken away in favor for it.

    A priest only have shadow specc, that is true, but i mean imagine if they took away holy and replace that with a dps specc, i think that would upset alot of priest players. Disc for example got reworked but its still a healing specc, it didnt turn into a dps specc.

    So to conclude: the biggest issue with survival isnt that it has a meele option, the issue lies in that a specc got litterly taken away and replaced completly. That is why im playing hunter in classic right now beacuse when wrath hits, i can play ranged survival again.

  20. #20
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaloff View Post
    So to conclude, adding a way for people to play survival as both ranged and meele would be the best option, both sides keeps what they want and blizzard wins too.
    Oh yes for sure, everyone is ok with more specs, but there's people demanding the removal of melee survival in favor of old survival, which was so similar to the other specs that it got straight out removed.

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