Warcraft story has always been silly and based on parody.

[Kehego]

Alleria is such a blatant mary sue that her defenders wound me.

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That was going to far into an extreme agreed. But hell even in those cases the problem was they were being jokey while at the same time trying to make t hem serious (except Johnny Awesome). Like Harrison Jones had world ending threats. Kingslayer Orkus tried to force a sad end when you just cant with that character. I never said serious is in and of itself bad, just that they are trying too hard to be serious and forcing it or mixing extremes.

Orkus would have worked if they didnt also make him a joke beforehand. Likewise he would have still worked if they also hadnt made him a hero at the end. would have been like if they had introduced Muradin in WC3 as some drunken lout who sends you on a mission to get his favorite beer mug when you first meet him. His death would have later been meaningless because he was just some silly drunk. Yeah we had Dwarves who ARE like that, but they werent made a main character but rather side pieces. Or if they had made Grom talk and act like Orcish Blademasters who are, lets be honest, silly as hell speaking in engrish and having katanas for some reason.

It would destroy the moment at the end of the campaign if Grom goes "Thrallu, you have shaved hour preoples honoru" like the Orcish blademasters talk.

but to be fair, you haven't heard any of the wapanese orcs... at least in WoW. Lantressor of the blade wasn't bad, at least if memory serves.

anyway yeah, warcraft lore has always been that bad... some people noticed in wc2, some people noticed in wc3, some people noticed in wotlk, some people noticed today.
either you enjoy it (the game) or you don't at this point, tbh.

[Friedrich]

na,now its just in your face,before it was hidden or non existant,but it was never good,in fact in many ways its gotten much better in how its delivered

But it is as inconsistent as it can get, and further away from the WarCraft 3 take that really proprlled this franchise.

[Kehego]

But it is as inconsistent as it can get, and further away from the WarCraft 3 take that really proprlled this franchise.

wc3's lore didn't propel the franchise, the gameplay and ability to be modded did.

Or are we forgetting things like the storm earth fire song in wc3?

[McNeil]

You could also say the same thing about the original Star Wars trilogy. Its not the story that people loved but the universe that was building around it. Warcraft used to do an amazing job with it as every game expanded the universe with al kinds of new races, characters and their own stories that connected well with the world. The latest expansions failed to write as well in a positive manner, especially Shadowlands which was just retconning established lore which didn't really add anything and ended up being a Sylvanas wankfest.

[shoc]

WoW is a pastiche, not a parody.

[Friedrich]

wc3's lore didn't propel the franchise, the gameplay and ability to be modded did.

Or are we forgetting things like the storm earth fire song in wc3?

I didnt get into WoW because of the gameplay in WC 3 or its ability to be moded. I got into it because of the story.

[Tarba]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p.../TheEvilPrince

Its one of the bigger literature tropes.

The only link with that trope and Arthas is that Arthas is an evil prince. It has as much link to him than a random trope "a blond man". The description is basically the complete opposite of Arthas's story.
Arthas is more like a Revan character.
Being good and wanting to do good but forced to do hard choices to save his people, while being abandoned by the ones who should help him, destroying himself bit by bit but still wanting to protect his people.
That's until he get mind controlled of course. But that ft ending cinematic is still a pure wonder.

[ohwell]

The fact that Arthas is based on a generic trope doesn't change the fact that the execution was original, because Darth Vader-esque characters always get redeemed in the end, but Arthas never got his redemption. He just had a moment of lucidity where he was glad that he was freed from the artefact of K̶i̶l̶'̶j̶a̶e̶d̶e̶n̶ The Janitor.

If anything Sylvanas is even more generic than Arthas, since she did get a redemption, like all the other countless Darth Vader clones you see in fiction. Danuser even wrote in her dungeon journal that she "dropped her mask" or something cringe like that, and right after the fight, she is redeemed. It doesn't get more generic Darth Vader than that. Meanwhile Arthas, while also a Darth Vader rip-off in his backstory, is more original because he doesn't get redeemed.

People here also complain about Alleria and Turalyon being your generic Aragorn-Arwen couple that you find in every fantasy work, but even if conceptually they are not original, the execution is still very unique, because Alleria embraced the powers of a Dark God, while Turalyon was granted immortality by the powers of a Light God. I have never seen another fantasy couple that embodies the primal powers of the Universe so clearly and distinctly.

You also didn't mention villains like Lei-Shen and Malygos who are genuinely original, even conceptually. I have never seen another villain with a motivation like Malygos. Depriving mortals of their magic because they are foolish with it is an original motivation, and if anything the crime is that Malygos died so quickly. Lei-Shen is also original because, while based on the trope of eastern warlord, his motivation was to complete the work of the Titans.

Anyone who has to resort to cringe like saying "Janitor" loses all credibility.

[Verdugo]

Anyone who has to resort to cringe like saying "Janitor" loses all credibility.

You seem to be taking this personaly.

[cparle87]

The community loves Sylvanas and Vereesa and hardly ever complain about them. Alleria is literally the only one who gets so much hate from the community (for some reason), which is why I mentioned only her.

I mean, whenever Sylvanas and Vereesa commit mass murder, the community cheers for them (let's not pretend every Horde player wasn't making jokes about Teldrassil). But the community gets mad about Alleria just coming close to a fount of Light.

Vereesa got just as much crap in the Wrath/Cata/MoP days when she and her husband, Rhonin, were in the limelight. Especially with her actions in the Purge of Dalaran.

[KrayZ33]

You also didn't mention villains like Lei-Shen and Malygos who are genuinely original, even conceptually. I have never seen another villain with a motivation like Malygos. Depriving mortals of their magic because they are foolish with it is an original motivation, and if anything the crime is that Malygos died so quickly. Lei-Shen is also original because, while based on the trope of eastern warlord, his motivation was to complete the work of the Titans.

There is nothing wrong with it, but there is absolutely nothing " genuinely original" about Malygos or Lei-Shen in concept.

Malygos' desire to remove once given power is just an extension to what you see in a lot of movies, books or even anime. Not to mention that he is the definition of the "driven to madness"-trope
Lei-Shen's desire to complete the work of his former "masters" after they have given up, turning into a "villain" in the process doesn't strike me as original either. He fits the typical "Utopia Justifies the Means" trope as well.

I doubt any of those are the first of it's kind, unique or even rare.

[Mendzia]

Yes it did.
Sadly now it has too much of political corectness so they had to remove some of the good stuff from the game.

[Varodoc]

There is nothing wrong with it, but there is absolutely nothing " genuinely original" about Malygos or Lei-Shen in concept.

Malygos' desire to remove once given power is just an extension to what you see in a lot of movies, books or even anime. Not to mention that he is the definition of the "driven to madness"-trope
Lei-Shen's desire to complete the work of his former "masters" after they have given up, turning into a "villain" in the process doesn't strike me as original either. He fits the typical "Utopia Justifies the Means" trope as well.

I doubt any of those are the first of it's kind, unique or even rare.

Like the other guy, you think a villain can't be original just because they follow a trope.

Following your logic, no villain can be original because the almighty TV Trope website will insert them into multiple tropes at any given time.

You're like those who think Alleria and the Void elves are not unique because they are just "another shade of purple elves", while in reality they are extremely unique and original. Since you don't see many elves in fiction who are fair and pure but embrace the darkness to study it and weaponize it.

[DingDongKing]

I'm one of those people who doesn't quite care about in-game lore that much. I prefer the novels.

I really enjoyed the novels based in the pre-WoW timeline. They were enjoyable for what they were.

Lore since BFA has just been...so fucking tedious. Because it's now full on soap-opera/never-ending.

[KrayZ33]

Like the other guy, you think a villain can't be original just because they follow a trope.

Following your logic, no villain can be original because the almighty TV Trope website will insert them into multiple tropes at any given time.

You're like those who think Alleria and the Void elves are not unique because they are just "another shade of purple elves", while in reality they are extremely unique and original. Since you don't see many elves in fiction who are fair and pure but embrace the darkness to study it and weaponize it.

If they are unique or original (in the context of being the "first"), they would start a new "trope". But they don't.
They are cookie-cutter villains that you can find in every corner you wish to look in.
They may appear "unique" to you, because you didn't watch enough anime or cartoons. Most WoW villains are actually pretty one dimensional, don't develop on the slightest, and they have like a 50 entries-long list on that site because they are very cliché.

[Varodoc]

If they are unique or original (in the context of being the "first"), they would start a new "trope". But they don't.
They are cookie-cutter villains that you can find in every corner you wish to look in.

Then give me multiple examples of people like them.

And give me examples of unique villains.

It's pointless to say that they are generic if you don't prove it. Okay... thanks for saying it... I'm just going to trust your word on it...

[cparle87]

Yeah... from reading that page, it seems like that trope refers to villains like Scar from Lion King. So villains who plot and scheme to get the throne and get rid of all other heirs.

He killed his father and declared himself King Arthas.

[KrayZ33]

Then give me multiple examples of people like them.

And give me examples of unique villains.

It's pointless to say that they are generic if you don't prove it. Okay... thanks for saying it... I'm just going to trust your word on it...

I'd have to name you stuff from like 500 years ago. You are a little late when you want to find modern unique and original villains that are not heavily influenced by former stories and other characters.
It's really a joke when you say Malygos is in any form whatsoever an "original concept".... and calling it that *heavily* implies that characters like him are "new".

[Varodoc]

I'd have to name you stuff from like 500 years ago. You are a little late when you want to find modern unique and original villains that are not heavily influenced by former stories and other characters.
It's really a joke when you say Malygos is in any form whatsoever an "original concept".... and calling it that *heavily* implies that characters like him are "new".

Okay then name them, you piqued my curiosity.

[KrayZ33]

Okay then name them, you piqued my curiosity.

Dude... Malygos is basically the same type of villain like Sarageras.
Former nice guy, corrupted and driven mad, wanting to "save" the universe yet his actions lead to the destruction of it.

He is a villain with "good intentions" but his methods are problematic or simply put "evil".

If I go by modern anime shows who have this type of character or antagonist:

Attack of Titan
Even the fucking father from that girl in Food Wars! is the same type of character.
Or Lelouch

As for movies, you just have to look at most marvel or super hero stories.
Or look at Count Dooko from Star Wars

+ a thousand more.

Is the warcraft universe your first story ever or something?