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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Yes, designing a whole set for 0,1% of people is a good idea.

    Honestly, come down from your elitist gatekeeping trip.
    You should stop playing a victim every time a person might get something that you can't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Nothing to do with bad players, lol.

    You could have items that are unobtainable for "bad players" yet not be FOMO. Even easily acquired things can be FOMO. Don't conflate the two.
    Doesn't matter how hard it is to get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

  2. #62
    Current season (assuming we will have 8 dungeon seasons after SL):

    Rating 200: Set piece 1/9
    Rating 400: Set piece 2/9
    ...
    Rating 1800: Set piece 9/9
    Rating 2000: Achiev/mount
    M+20: Dungeon portal
    M+20 or higher after you get portal: filling % bar for item to buy mount/transmog piece from older seasons (yep, vicious saddle mechanic).

    Game doesn't need to encourage guys who play M+20. They need to repopulate M+2 to M+15.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    that is the wrong way to measure how good a game mode is.

    wow needs game modes that brings new players in. wow's playerbase continues to shrink. capturing a larger and larger share of the current shrinking playerbase does no good at all. its essentially putting a plane into a death spiral. M+ has proven to be a total bust as it clearly has not drawn in new players and at this point, can be construed as aiding the decline. it needs to be ripped from the game.

    to me, m+ is absolutely vomit-inducing. that and arena are absolutely horrible. remove both.
    Honestly, it's weird to see how you try to constantly dismiss the success of M+.

    You have literally nothing to back up your point ever, besides trying to reach for straws that even Mr. Fantastic couldn't reach.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    No one ever says that.
    I've said it many times, I do think that exclusive things are pretty neat.

    To be frank, I find most FOMO complaints to be just spoiled tantrums over wanting something and being unable to handle hearing "no".

  5. #65
    Pit Lord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Current season (assuming we will have 8 dungeon seasons after SL):

    Rating 200: Set piece 1/9
    Rating 400: Set piece 2/9
    ...
    Rating 1800: Set piece 9/9
    Rating 2000: Achiev/mount
    M+20: Dungeon portal
    M+20 or higher after you get portal: filling % bar for item to buy mount/transmog piece from older seasons (yep, vicious saddle mechanic).

    Game doesn't need to encourage guys who play M+20. They need to repopulate M+2 to M+15.
    That's actually a great idea! Would give people a little candy every time they push. Not a fan of making the transmog available later on though, if you keep it at a reasonable level (as in, 1800 rating) you don't really need that imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    You should stop playing a victim every time a person might get something that you can't.

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    Doesn't matter how hard it is to get.
    I get everything I want, thank you. The game still needs to cater to a broader audience than 0,1% of it's playerbase.
    Last edited by Lady Atia; 2022-05-21 at 05:53 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    This. Also, the more “unique” you add, the more watered down these “unique” sets become. Like PVP armour. Not that many people notice the elites sets.
    Yeah, I'm more likely to notice that the non-elite sets are simply missing some doodads that should exist on the base set.

    Even recolors, like, why lock them behind that?

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Doing 20s is already what less than 0.1% of wow players do (especially considering that a rather small amount of wow's playerbase even does mythics keys).

    But yeah I think top end players already get way too much already.

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    No one ever says that.
    uhh they did. Thats the point. And clearly you never played Vanilla - Wrath (Legit) when a lot of things that everyone has today were very exclusive to a limited number of players. Anytime you saw Warglaives on the PVP ground. Anytime you Saw Ashes. ect. But now that everyone for the most part has those, its "no one ever says that"

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    The game still needs to cater to a broader audience than 0,1% of it's playerbase.
    It does. The vast majority of content is available to everyone without putting in any effort. The only exceptions are M+ above maybe lvl 9, Normal, Heroic and Mythic raids. But for all those you can see the exact same content in LFR and lower M+ dungeons or even Heroic dungeons. You're not missing any story by not doing those except maybe one Anduin phase.

    And the game has been giving solo players/casuals more content with every expansion. Dungeon finder queue, LFR, Pet Battles, Mage Tower, Torghast etc. All content you can solo or content that's dead easy to get into.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Go play classic. Your attitude has no place in retail anymore. Since Transmog was introduced but for sure since MoP, where everyone got legendaries, WoW has removed those status symbols from the game.
    Even classic doesn't have that. Everyone has thunderfurry or some other wild shit now. Classic in nowhere near the same level of actual vanilla. When a guild REALLY beat Rag back in the day. It was a huge achievement. Now. It was beaten with in the what? first week of classic. When it originally took 150+ days to clear.. "go play classic" attitude is shit.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Doing 20s is already what less than 0.1% of wow players do (especially considering that a rather small amount of wow's playerbase even does mythics keys).

    But yeah I think top end players already get way too much already.
    Like what? All top end players get is the same content that everyone else has, except more difficult. Why shouldn't they be rewarded for defeating that extra difficulty?

    Do you not understand the bare basics of videogame design? Players won't do anything if it doesn't give them a reward. And if that reward is not better than the same easier task, then they won't do that harder task. And if at that point you just don't have that harder task then you start losing not just the players who do that harder task, but also the players who don't but think they might or want to strive to that goal.
    Last edited by Aydinx2; 2022-05-21 at 06:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    Doesn't matter how hard it is to get.
    Well, it does. Prestige (if you want to argue about that) should be tied to achievement, not to date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    I've said it many times, I do think that exclusive things are pretty neat.

    To be frank, I find most FOMO complaints to be just spoiled tantrums over wanting something and being unable to handle hearing "no".
    Nothing to do with spoiled tantrums. You aren't spoiled for being annoyed that you saw somebody wearing something cool, and you're willing to put actual hours or weeks of your time into acquiring the same, but you can't simply because you weren't playing in, say, 2014.

    Rewards for doing difficult content are fine. Giving people cool stuff for doing something that takes effort or at least coordination is fine.

    FOMO is very specifically time-locking it, and FOMO is not inherently tied to prestige or difficulty at all. The annual pass Tyrael's Charger can be seen as FOMO, but surely nobody is actually drooling over a guy who owns Tyrael's Charger because he's "so cool for having it."

    You can reward people for effort without it being FOMO. FOMO is a crutch for developers who can't develop evergreen content and instead try to keep people on a treadmill by making them feel like they'll miss out if they don't keep playing for at least x amount of time.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Well, it does. Prestige (if you want to argue about that) should be tied to achievement, not to date.
    I agree that making an item hard to get rather than limited time is better (which is why I prefer the current Mage Tower iteration). But Prestige can also easily be "I was there and you weren't". It's about exclusivity which can come from how hard it is to get or making it limited time only.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Yooginava182 View Post
    uhh they did. Thats the point. And clearly you never played Vanilla - Wrath (Legit) when a lot of things that everyone has today were very exclusive to a limited number of players. Anytime you saw Warglaives on the PVP ground. Anytime you Saw Ashes. ect. But now that everyone for the most part has those, its "no one ever says that"
    None of those are FOMO and those are wannabe vanilla veteran clichés lol.

    "Bro in my day, when I was in full t2, people drooled over me all the time and whispered me to ask how I got that! Then they went on to become world class raiders themselves because I motivated them."

    This is some boomer-tier long-dismantled LARP lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    I agree that making an item hard to get rather than limited time is better (which is why I prefer the current Mage Tower iteration). But Prestige can also easily be "I was there and you weren't". It's about exclusivity which can come from how hard it is to get or making it limited time only.
    Alright, question then. Do you think Tyrael's Charger is prestigious? Do you think the Stormwind Skychaser is prestigious? How about the Warcraft movie weapons? Not a trick question per se--I just don't believe your answer to those questions is yes.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauzhi View Post
    Hopefully. The art team keep providing their work for the 0.1% of the player base and generic work for the others.

    Dammit.. sarcasm again.
    Vast majority of models, items, mounts, toys and rewards are offered to the larger playerbase. That's where the art team provides work.

    Having Mythic Raids drop a recolor of whatever everyone has with tiny difference (if that) and one mount once in half a year and same for PvP is what makes you go "oh noes"? Especially nowadays with catalyst, where you have other ways to get that set recolor anyway.

    ---

    In the context of a thread. Why not, if they want to make M+ be a full blown alternative to raiding/PvP - it makes sense for it to also have some elite mount option and a set recolor for something more substantial than stock 15s.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Yooginava182 View Post
    uhh they did. Thats the point. And clearly you never played Vanilla - Wrath (Legit) when a lot of things that everyone has today were very exclusive to a limited number of players. Anytime you saw Warglaives on the PVP ground. Anytime you Saw Ashes. ect. But now that everyone for the most part has those, its "no one ever says that"
    I played WoW since it came out in EU and people never cared for what someone was wearing. The only people that maybe did were literally kids at that time, but kids aren't playing this game anymore.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Ok, if FOMO items are so trivial that nobody should worry about getting them or not, why should they exist anyway, because that by definition defeats their entire purpose of being desired items?
    It's not the item being trivial or not. It's players thinking they deserve to get everything by default.

    By your reasoning, any kind of reward in a game is problematic due to FOMO. I'm not saying there's not games designed around it, but WoW is not one of them.

    Cosmetics don't affect gameplay and it's a fact. So there are no issues in putting them as rewards for the hardest content. If you want them, go do such content.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    It's not the item being trivial or not. It's players thinking they deserve to get everything by default.

    By your reasoning, any kind of reward in a game is problematic due to FOMO. I'm not saying there's not games designed around it, but WoW is not one of them.

    Cosmetics don't affect gameplay and it's a fact. So there are no issues in putting them as rewards for the hardest content. If you want them, go do such content.
    .. No? Rewards are fine. Making them time sensitive is the problem.

    FOMO =/= rewards for effort

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Honestly, it's weird to see how you try to constantly dismiss the success of M+.

    You have literally nothing to back up your point ever, besides trying to reach for straws that even Mr. Fantastic couldn't reach.
    I have EVERYTHING to back up my point. Subs have clearly fallen since M+ came out. It did absolutely nothing to stem the tide. And it shouldn't, because M+ is awful. Garbage like M+ was NEVER the reason WoW was successful.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  19. #79
    FOMO as a way to force engagement just ends up eroding the playerbase's genuine commitment, it's just another forced hamster wheel.

    If only a very minor % of players can get a reward, you're by definition creating something most players won't get. Do you really think it's best for the game to gatekeep more content? Bragging rights might be what you want, but how does that realistically translate to a majority of the playerbase?

    I do agree that there are games where the point is to be on that top %, but WoW is a MMORPG, a social game with an involved lore and setting, and "casuals" are a big part of that playerbase. It's not easy, but if you want to keep most of your playerbase happy, you can't bank on adding exclusive rewards only for the top % of players, cause you're literally alienating most of the playerbase then.

    Portals and other conveniences that top % players have need of would be far better rewards. If you rewards things that are actually tied to the type of progression you push for instead of cosmetics, you don't run into the same level of risk than alienating all the rest of the playerbase that likes cosmetic rewards.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    FOMO as a way to force engagement just ends up eroding the playerbase's genuine commitment, it's just another forced hamster wheel.

    If only a very minor % of players can get a reward, you're by definition creating something most players won't get. Do you really think it's best for the game to gatekeep more content? Bragging rights might be what you want, but how does that realistically translate to a majority of the playerbase?

    I do agree that there are games where the point is to be on that top %, but WoW is a MMORPG, a social game with an involved lore and setting, and "casuals" are a big part of that playerbase. It's not easy, but if you want to keep most of your playerbase happy, you can't bank on adding exclusive rewards only for the top % of players, cause you're literally alienating most of the playerbase then.

    Portals and other conveniences that top % players have need of would be far better rewards. If you rewards things that are actually tied to the type of progression you push for instead of cosmetics, you don't run into the same level of risk than alienating all the rest of the playerbase that likes cosmetic rewards.
    Unfortunately, the players you describe have mostly left the game already; blizzard is designing the game for their most reliable money makers; it’s not us. I’ve come to terms with the fact that they changed direction a long time ago, I wish it was more balanced, but I know it will never be that way; the release of classic doubles down on their aversion to reintroducing that game design to new expansions. The talent trees are mostly a trick to draw in old timers that played classic and are curious about the new expansion; it’s not what these players want, it’s not the community these players want either. Gotta move on.

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