If mythic plus got it's own "elite" armor mog, what do you think it should require?

[Nymrohd]

You don't need them for ANY reason. Remeber that FOMO only exists if you feel the need to have something, so it's a "you" problem and not the game.

Here is the thing. Cosmetics are very important in a game when they enable archetype fantasies. WoW is a game with a magnificent wealth of hero character archetypes yet only allows a small number of them to be playable. Cosmetics can to some extent let you tune your character better with a desired archetype; I remember how many blood elf dark apotheosis warlock cosplaying as demon hunters existed in MoP because it was a very desirable archetype that we did not have access to.
This leads to cosmetics. Some limited cosmetics are time limited. Those same cosmetics can "click" when it comes to helping a player represent a desired archetype. Gladiator mounts and elite mogs can be quite unique, even if the latter are recolors; after all recolors can better represent a specific faction affiliation.
AS a long time RPer and GM, most game master books that describe player goals place "playing an archetype" among the top reasons people play RPGs (often either the top or right after variants on escapist power fantasy). It's human nature to enjoy playing roles and to find further enjoyment in immersion and playing them well; in a game environment like WoW that is mostly possible through customization.

So FOMO can just disincentivize a player from picking up a new character or even the game when they realize they can never really attain the archetype fantasy they are searching.

That said I don't think seasonal rewards are problematic or should be abolished. I do think it should be possible to earn them off season by completing tasks. Add a token you acquire at 2400 and then again at 3000 rating (good luck with that) which allows you to buy a different season's elite mog for your class. If they'd ever add seasonal mogs for M+ they could do the same; complete everything at +25 and you get a token to grab any past M+ mog you want for that character. If you can eventually get something, however grindy it might be and however far in the future you might get it, it still feels attainable.

[Soikona]

Tbh, I would rather have the teleports being the top thing you can get - it's a nice QoL improvement for pushers but not really a thing people will be sad if they miss out on them. Since you can get Elite Gear with I think .... 1,8k rating these days, M+ should mirror that roughly too, so I would go with something like this:

- All on 5 gives you a title (currently the reward for pushing 10's)
- All on 10 gives you a class specific, seasonal elite transmog
- All on 15 gives you a seasonal mount and dragonriding customization
- A 20 gives you a dungeon teleport, all on 20 gives you a weapon illusion

Really, the game should push more people to do M+ and Mythic raiding, but giving rewards to ~1% of players won't help with that - you need to make them available for the broad range of people if you want to make people play it more, simply because the amount of players who will or can do X amount of hard content for Y reward is quite low.

Another good example is the rewards structure of fated raids in season 4 - normal will give a mount, heroic a title and mythic just the teleports.

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Why do you want seasonal rewards? Because they look good or because you want people to notice you?

Both, if I see a CM set I will poke the person to talk about the good ole days! Be surprised how often it happens. And because they look good. If added to every tier, after a while tho of constantly chasing them, I would just go “meh CBA”.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Ah yes, and Method doing 29 mage Ny'alotha heroic joke runs also makes them a "casual" guild.

in fact yes it was a casual pug raid with rnd players i was one of the mages btw, you are bad and thats okay but dont put limited time = to bad, just cuz some one has 4 hrs a week to play it dont mean he cant do the hadest content

[Nymrohd]

Both, if I see a CM set I will poke the person to talk about the good ole days! Be surprised how often it happens. And because they look good. If added to every tier, after a while tho of constantly chasing them, I would just go “meh CBA”.

What if each expansion had a M+ specific class set that stayed the same. You get a token once you complete everything at +20 and you can use that token at a vendor to either buy the mog or to buy a mount. THey can add more mounts in later seasons or maybe even a recolor (but not have a recolor every season).

[Kiriastrasza]

Sure, but the requirements should be for DBM and RIO to be uninstalled in order for you to achieve it.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

You seem to believe the only people playing is the ones doing 25+ and mythic raids, when the game was basically fueled by people paying their sub to do daily quests. You play in a WR30 guild and you call yourself casual, you really have zero idea of how this game actually works.

It's true that casual and skill are not on the same spectrum (one can be casual and good, or hardcore and bad) but this just shows how the vision of the game is completely skewed and full of bias depending on how someone plays the game.

I'm not trusting anyone until they talk in generic terms and if they say stuff like "i do X" i immediately dismiss them because it's literally "i play the game like this so should everyone else". From what i've seen lately, Blizzard is starting to disagree with this kind of reasoning. We'll see how it ends.

Back on topic: i feel again laughable how most people are against the idea of a seasonal elite xmog for high level m+ just because they already know they are not going to reach that level of gameplay/effort/skill and still pretend they should have a chance at it. And this comes from someone who doesn't have the time to eventually do something like that - it's literally comsetics. You don't need them for ANY reason. Remeber that FOMO only exists if you feel the need to have something, so it's a "you" problem and not the game.

im well aware that the game is funeld by 40+ y old boomers with no hands and thats fine, every one has hes place in the game and can do what ever he likes, my argument was only that casual dont equal skill and that there alot of 1 day a week guilds cleaing mythic and you can pug a +20 key with no need of meta premades of wahtever excuses ppl bring up, you will have to get the needed score ofc like every one else but thats not hard or "elite" to do a +20 the elite is doing 29+ atm

[Polybius]

WoW has too much FOMO shit as is.

For sure. And it seems every time they keep asking for more. If scraps are what the rest of the players get, because higher quality art is reserved for the top, then it's better to just drop the game altogether. It gets tiring now that all games have it, rush within a timeframe or lose out on rewards.

[Nymrohd]

im well aware that the game is funeld by 40+ y old boomers with no hands and thats fine, evrey one has hes place in the game and can do what ever he likes, my argument was only that casual dont equal skill and that there alot of 1 day a week guilds cleaing mythic and you can pug a +20 key with no need of meta premades of wahtever excuses ppl bring up, you will have to get the needed score ofc like every one else but tahts not hard or "elite" to do a +20 the elite is doing 29+ atm

People in their early 40s are not boomers. Heck the older millenials will soon be hitting 40

[Jester Joe]

in fact yes it was a casual pug raid with rnd players i was one of the mages btw, you are bad and thats okay but dont put limited time = to bad, just cuz some one has 4 hrs a week to play it dont mean he cant do the hadest content

The only one who tried to equate this to skill was you.

And on average, you're not going to find people doing 20s and clearing mythic right now who only play for 4 hours a week.

Unless they already put in weeks of playing to grind to the point that they can do that.

[Hitei]

in fact yes it was a casual pug raid with rnd players i was one of the mages btw, you are bad and thats okay but dont put limited time = to bad, just cuz some one has 4 hrs a week to play it dont mean he cant do the hadest content

Method = casuals. Got it.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Method = casuals. Got it.

your braincells are not working i know it by now, it was mikes (gingi for you) raid with clickzz in it (2 medhod guys) me and other mages form THE GRPING TOOL we did the same shit with DK tanks too the same way with RND ppl, pugging is casual conent casual =/ dogshit player, i know its hard to comprehend for a dogshit palyer that a pug can clear mythic even with 18 mages but all it takes is you know not to be dogshit

[Hitei]

your braincells are not working i know it by now, it was mikes (gingi for you) raid with clickzz in it (2 medhod guys) me and other mages form THE GRPING TOOL we did the same shit with DK tanks too the same way with RND ppl, pugging is casual conent casual =/ dogshit player, i know its hard to comprehend for a dogshit palyer that a pug can clear mythic even with 18 mages but all it takes is you know not to be dogshit

Probably don't worry about other people's braincells working when you can't handle basic punctuation or spelling.

Do you think that people on a national football team playing a pick-up game suddenly become casual football players? Do you think that a multiple rank 1 arena player dueling randoms outside a city is suddenly a casual PvPer? Do you think that anytime someone who is part of FaZe, Na'Vi or C9's e-sports teams decides to play a random CS:GO match in their free time, they magically become a casual CS:GO player? No, dummy. They're still professional footballers, hardcore PvPers, and professional e-sports players. Just because someone is not doing progression at that moment, competing, or putting in 100% effort doesn't change that they're not a casual to that activity. A PuG full of hardcore players doesn't just become casual because they're not in one guild.

"UwU I-i only play four hours a week (lmao, imagine thinking this is casual to begin with)--after having played serious progression for months prior to gear and optimize my character" doesn't suddenly make you a casual. I get that you don't actually understand what the word means, but being a casual doesn't require being bad, nor is it a measure of your current week's playtime. It's about general approach to the game and how serious your investment is. The fact that you're even worried about mUh DoGsGit pLaYeRS!!!!!, trying to namedrop in a super pathetic attempt to establish credibility, and keep IO screenshots in your sig already shows you're not a casual player. Because you're someone who isn't approaching the game casually.

[cordrann]

"UwU I-i only play four hours a week (lmao, imagine thinking this is casual to begin with)

Four hours a week (34 minutes a day) is a low amount even for a typical "casual" player in the context of an MMO.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Probably don't worry about other people's braincells working when you can't handle basic punctuation or spelling.

Do you think that people on a national football team playing a pick-up game suddenly become casual football players? Do you think that a multiple rank 1 arena player dueling randoms outside a city is suddenly a casual PvPer? Do you think that anytime someone who is part of FaZe, Na'Vi or C9's e-sports teams decides to play a random CS:GO match in their free time, they magically become a casual CS:GO player? No, dummy. They're still professional footballers, hardcore PvPers, and professional e-sports players. Just because someone is not doing progression at that moment, competing, or putting in 100% effort doesn't change that they're not a casual to that activity. A PuG full of hardcore players doesn't just become casual because they're not in one guild.

"UwU I-i only play four hours a week (lmao, imagine thinking this is casual to begin with)--after having played serious progression for months prior to gear and optimize my character" doesn't suddenly make you a casual. I get that you don't actually understand what the word means, but being a casual doesn't require being bad, nor is it a measure of your current week's playtime. It's about general approach to the game and how serious your investment is. The fact that you're even worried about mUh DoGsGit pLaYeRS!!!!!, trying to namedrop in a super pathetic attempt to establish credibility, and keep IO screenshots in your sig already shows you're not a casual player. Because you're someone who isn't approaching the game casually.

i never said that im a full time casual, im a hall of fame mythic raider but i only play the game hadcore twice a year for about 2-3 weeks the rest of the time i farm and sell raids 2-3hrs a week and log off unless im willing to push keys and im sure i have less time played than the ppls calling themself "casual" here on mmo champ.

and btw a casual gamer by dictionarys definition means "someone who enjoys a video game without investing significant time into it" and that is exacly what im and all good raider doing after prog is over. You can try as mutch as you want to change the definition but it wont change the meaning.

[Celement]

The only one who tried to equate this to skill was you.

And on average, you're not going to find people doing 20s and clearing mythic right now who only play for 4 hours a week.

Unless they already put in weeks of playing to grind to the point that they can do that.

Devils advocate but if they are just now or in the past month hitting their 20s they could do that via vault. It would be slow and I imagine only a minority of a minority does that but its possible in a technical sense.

For the topic I just think it would be neat if mythic plus had the same kind d of reward structure raiding and pvp did at the high end.

[Jester Joe]

i never said that im a full time casual, im a hall of fame mythic raider but i only play the game hadcore twice a year for about 2-3 weeks the rest of the time i farm and sell raids 2-3hrs a week and log off unless im willing to push keys and im sure i have less time played than the ppls calling themself "casual" here on mmo champ.

and btw a casual gamer by dictionarys definition means "someone who enjoys a video game without investing significant time into it" and that is exacly what im and all good raider doing after prog is over. You can try as mutch as you want to change the definition but it wont change the meaning.

Are you really going to try to bring out definitions on this?

Then the definition for casual that gets closest to in terms of games is "a person who does something irregularly."

Playing weekly isn't irregular.
Nor is casual just a measurement of time.

I could go bowling every few days with friends casually.

But I could also go bowling once a week competitively.

It's also about what kind of content is being done. Mythic isn't casual, nor is doing 20s. The amount of time invested to get to that point is extreme (which you keep ignoring). A world first guild doesn't become a casual guild just because they take a break from raiding.

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Devils advocate but if they are just now or in the past month hitting their 20s they could do that via vault. It would be slow and I imagine only a minority of a minority does that but its possible in a technical sense.

For the topic I just think it would be neat if mythic plus had the same kind d of reward structure raiding and pvp did at the high end.

I'm not just talking about gear wise though.

Like I'm 275 on my paladin. Am I going to smoothly tank +20s and higher just because I've done all 15s? No. I'm sure I could but it would take more effort than I care to put in right now, and it would take more experience.


Honestly though I'd have to agree with other users that m+ needs more lower rewards. The mount is really supposed to be the real reward for everyone, or the ports if you want to get that far. The title exists for the top .1%

But people getting to 300-400 rating aren't getting anything. Scattering an armor set like pvp does through the rankings would work fine in my opinion.

[Tyris Flare]

i never said that im a full time casual, im a hall of fame mythic raider but i only play the game hadcore twice a year for about 2-3 weeks the rest of the time i farm and sell raids 2-3hrs a week and log off unless im willing to push keys and im sure i have less time played than the ppls calling themself "casual" here on mmo champ.

and btw a casual gamer by dictionarys definition means "someone who enjoys a video game without investing significant time into it" and that is exacly what im and all good raider doing after prog is over. You can try as mutch as you want to change the definition but it wont change the meaning.

Name dropper who is only wr30, like a triple AAA minor leaguer desperate to join the pros! Really sad.

Don't worry, someday maybe Echo will think you are good enough to join them!! You got it, buddy!

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"UwU I-i only play four hours a week (lmao, imagine thinking this is casual to begin with)--after having played serious progression for months prior to gear and optimize my character" doesn't suddenly make you a casual. I get that you don't actually understand what the word means, but being a casual doesn't require being bad, nor is it a measure of your current week's playtime. It's about general approach to the game and how serious your investment is. The fact that you're even worried about mUh DoGsGit pLaYeRS!!!!!, trying to namedrop in a super pathetic attempt to establish credibility, and keep IO screenshots in your sig already shows you're not a casual player. Because you're someone who isn't approaching the game casually.

yeah, playtime is and has always been a useless metric, but it's actually MORE true now because people have like 10+ years of muscle memory and meta knowledge etc that almost immediately makes them not casual by any meaningful definition.

But casual in wow is like Middle Class in America - everyone thinks they are in it when by definition most are not. But very few people actually want to be called Hardcore unless they are a professional gamer, because otherwise it basically just makes them a loser who isn't good enough for the big leagues like Mr Feral man here

[Coldkil]

So FOMO can just disincentivize a player from picking up a new character or even the game when they realize they can never really attain the archetype fantasy they are searching.

You basically confirmed it's a player problem and not a game design issue. People want the stuff, but don't want to partake to the activity meant to earn that stuff so they have to design alternative routes to make so all kind of players have a chance at getting all the rewards.

Anyway, you're not wrong in your points. Cosmetics are an important part of the game, and i can see why people can feel being forced to do stuff just because they want a reward they like, while they don't like the content type (see Thorghast). However, there needs to be a clear distinction between things you need to progress and affect your gameplay, and things that don't - and cosmetics fall in the latter category. No player needs xmog stuff to play better. Is it more appealing/satisfactory? Of course, but your logs won't be better because of that. So there is no actual valid reason to make them always avialable - it would just took out any effort put by players to get them the "legit way".

The only two ways i can see it work are these:
- the content is permanently scaled to a static power level. This way it can stay in the game forever as there no thing as overgearing/trivializing it. You can work to get specific BiS gear for it and make things easier but it's not just "i'll come next patch when i can just ignore all the things". Mage Tower is a perfect example of stuff we should have more of, and i really thing Mythic raids as a whole could get this kind of treatment.

- you can only get alternative variations if you don't do the related seasonal content. Recolors, less/different particle effects etc. The base model is the same so you will have the xmog you like and it can stay there indefinitely, as it's not the same as the seasonal one. The seasonal one will maintain its prestige (as it's just that, a prestige reward) while everyone have a way to get something similar.

Then, you will never be able to make everyone happy because everyone's tastes are different, but that's another topic

[Lady Atia]

i never said that im a full time casual, im a hall of fame mythic raider but i only play the game hadcore twice a year for about 2-3 weeks the rest of the time i farm and sell raids 2-3hrs a week and log off unless im willing to push keys and im sure i have less time played than the ppls calling themself "casual" here on mmo champ.

and btw a casual gamer by dictionarys definition means "someone who enjoys a video game without investing significant time into it" and that is exacly what im and all good raider doing after prog is over. You can try as mutch as you want to change the definition but it wont change the meaning.

You are not if you are doing 3 weeks of no lifing each patch. Sorry to bust your bubble.

[Stornholio]

No thanks. I don't believe that that group of people (Raid/M+/Rated PvP) should be loaded more up with rewards than they already are. It'll just promote even more boosting as well.

Good point - this is why I would love to see a ban on boosting and carrys altogether. The integrity of rewards is at an alltime low at this point.