1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Wylyth1992's Avatar
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    The "War" In Warcraft Doesn't Have To Be The Alliance Vs Horde War

    Like the title says. I am getting tired of the Alliance-Horde wars. It often means either (as an Alliance player) you are forced to watch your faction get beaten up and then forced to forgive the faction that beat them up or (as a Horde player) you are forced to watch your faction do increasingly immoral stuff.

  2. #2
    I'm pretty sure everyone doesn't care too.

  3. #3
    i kinda like the faction war stuff. not sure why WoW players find being the bad guy to be so offensive. look at SWTOR. a similar setting and the "bad guys" outnumber the "good guys" too and not because "pretty elves".
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  4. #4
    This is why covenants are a good idea. They can be sub-factions that intersect the Horde and the Alliance, because there can be more than two, it won't be a constant stalemate. Players can switch sides if they want to (within reason and sensible limitations) without having to leave the servers.

    Rather than covenants being just a choice in which single player campaign flavour you want, they can instead define how players fight battlegrounds, or do world quests, or world-pvp over territories, or contribute to pve war-effort in a race against the other covenants.

    There can be a bottom-feeder bonus to the covenant that performs worse and there can be a rubber-banding on the covenant that performs best. The players could cast votes in their covenant halls on covenant invasions, which would be like the legion invasions except now perpetrated by the covenant themselves.

    Forget what Shadowlands did with covenants. Think about Azeroth-based sub-factions that are in a constant struggle with each other over claiming pieces of Azeroth through PvE and PVP competitions.

  5. #5
    Faction war worked best a side story. A way to show conflict in the world and make it more believable.

    Hopefully conflict isn't something they completely abandon because it can be one of the best parts of storytelling.

  6. #6
    There's always going to be tension between the factions but allowing for allowing for cross faction grouping is a huge change in the right direction. Hopefully over time they remove the stupid limitation of faction only guilds as well.
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  7. #7
    People forget that we were essentially at war with Yogg'saron, Lei Shen the Thunder King, N'Zoth, The Burning Legion, Azshara etc.

    We've always been at war. Hell, for all of Shadowlands, we've been at war with the jailer/Zovaal.

    Blizzard has already said that cross faction grouping means faction war is unlikely to become the main focus of another expansion. There will likely always be minor skirmishes, but it'll be a side story at best.

    That doesn't mean they've taken the war out of Warcraft. It just means we're at war with something else.
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  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Wylyth1992's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    i kinda like the faction war stuff. not sure why WoW players find being the bad guy to be so offensive. look at SWTOR. a similar setting and the "bad guys" outnumber the "good guys" too and not because "pretty elves".
    The thing is the New Horde was not suppose to be the bad guys, while the Sith Empire is, as even if you play as a Light Side Imperial character, you are still supporting a fascist magocracy (a government run by the magic-using elite).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    i kinda like the faction war stuff. not sure why WoW players find being the bad guy to be so offensive. look at SWTOR. a similar setting and the "bad guys" outnumber the "good guys" too and not because "pretty elves".
    Because it's not about being the bad guy.

    The Horde-Alliance faction war ended at Mount Hyjal in Warcraft 3 and every single reboot of it that WoW has since attempted except Wrathgate has been poorly handled and a foundational misunderstanding of what the story needs: it's repeatedly been driven forward by the writers purely for the sake of cheap drama, despite a narrative that has long since put the whole affair at rest ten times over, with the war being put aside in favor of a common villain basically every major content patch and numerous major characters having reason to have a more nuanced view on it than a black-vs-white narrative.

    That's a massively different situation from Star Wars, where the Sith and Jedi are fundamentally opposed and will never agree.

  10. #10
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
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    Wasn't it just Horde vs. Alliance in the first RTS game, and then the game shifted in WC II and III to Horde/Alliance vs. Legion, and then Horde/Alliance/Legion vs. Scourge?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Wasn't it just Horde vs. Alliance in the first RTS game, and then the game shifted in WC II and III to Horde/Alliance vs. Legion, and then Horde/Alliance/Legion vs. Scourge?
    Not really. WC3 was the first one where they deviated from the Horde vs Alliance dynamic and also made the Horde good guys via Thrall. Then in WoW we went backwards again.

  12. #12
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    I doubt that's going to change, ever. It's been a core identity of the game since the very beginning. I'd be very surprised if the developers were to remove it to any significant degree. It's also something of a story vehicle for the PvP element of the game, which is most definitely not going away.
    Last edited by Santti; 2022-05-21 at 11:49 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    i kinda like the faction war stuff. not sure why WoW players find being the bad guy to be so offensive. look at SWTOR. a similar setting and the "bad guys" outnumber the "good guys" too and not because "pretty elves".
    I could deal with being the bad guy if they hadn't spent half of all lore since Warcraft 3 insisting that the Horde are NOT the bad guys, they're just misunderstood noble savages. The entire campaign of Reign of Chaos is all spent insisting that the Horde are not just villains. This makes it very frustrating when they write the Burning of Teldrassil and force players who signed up for this noble savage faction to partake in an unprovoked invasion and ultimately be party to genocide.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    i kinda like the faction war stuff. not sure why WoW players find being the bad guy to be so offensive. look at SWTOR. a similar setting and the "bad guys" outnumber the "good guys" too and not because "pretty elves".
    most people hate how they do it, Playeres dont have any choose, the timeline in the expansions don't make sense, always too short and how long in lore from Vanilla to BFA? bet not even 2 decades

    BFA, ignoring the amount of stuff that was in beta until Season 3, including corruption was not bad (after they put the vendors in)

    BFA should have been a whole expansion just working on the conflict between the factions, and with a longer time span things happen too fast and in the end it doesn't matter much

    N'zoth should have been its own expansion, not that it was bad but it was too short

  15. #15
    It could be a Light vs Void war and players get to pick side. I assume that won't happen anytime soon with this "grounded direction" they caved in.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    Like the title says. I am getting tired of the Alliance-Horde wars. It often means either (as an Alliance player) you are forced to watch your faction get beaten up and then forced to forgive the faction that beat them up or (as a Horde player) you are forced to watch your faction do increasingly immoral stuff.
    There is also the controversial option of them writing a good war story once in a blue moon.
    Most wars do not have good or bad guys outside of propaganda, and while perceived weakness plays a role it's rarely so that one side is truly more stupid than the other.
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  17. #17
    I agree. Just make some smaller factions that fight. If they wanna keep the playerbase split just have all the Horde help the x faction and the Alliance the y faction or let everyone pick a side then we can have actual winners and losers. Let us choose between 2 new species in for an expansion then let pvp and dailies and shit decide the winning side who then rewards us and grows more influential in the next expansion.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Clone's Avatar
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    It doesn't have to be Horde vs Alliance, but even if it is, it can be done much differently. They could make the playable races a coalition of its own (New Horde, Theramore, NE), and have the Old Horde vs the Old Alliance that players can align themselves with. This way Blizzard get much more freedom to write whatever, less player backlash, more consistent characterization, etc.
    Last edited by Clone; 2022-05-22 at 01:21 AM.

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