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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    That would be ruined anyway. Thrall hasn't been sitting on the throne in Orgrimmar since before Cataclysm. That was when they really destroyed everything being time ambivalent.
    Well, I never said that they shouldn't make phasing better. They definitely have too since there is a whole expansion that you can't start right now because of phasing issues...

  2. #22
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Having new players starting on BFA after Exile's Reach is fine to me. I wouldn't think it is a good idea to throw a new player into the decision of what expansion if they don't know them in the first place.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    Well, I never said that they shouldn't make phasing better. They definitely have too since there is a whole expansion that you can't start right now because of phasing issues...
    I would be down if they wanted to introduce a completely linear experience as a option for those that want it. But they would have to first port the Vanilla instances of EK + Kalimdor into the game. It unfortunately not possible to play the game in a coherent sequential fashion as is.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Having new players starting on BFA after Exile's Reach is fine to me. I wouldn't think it is a good idea to throw a new player into the decision of what expansion if they don't know them in the first place.
    They can make it so that, as a new player, you have the two boxes with "Start at Exile's Reach" and "Start at startingzone". Except that for the new players, the Exile's Reach one is in gold ans sparkly while the Starting zones one is in big red and warning that it's not advised for new players, and with a warning prompt when choosing it asking you to confirm your choice (and repeating you that it's not advised for new players).

    That way, the only one who will choose the starting zones are the ones who want to do the story in order.

  5. #25
    Pandaren Monk Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    Exactly, and they should be able to not start at Exile's Reach too. Imagine you're a new player that just did the three Warcraft games and wow classic, you then have to skip 7 expansions of stories and spoil yourself quit a lot of things before being able to start kind of where you left.

    Of course add a warning saying that starting at Exile's Reach and BFA is advised for new players, but don't make it mandatory, reducing possibilities in a game is pretty much always a bad idea.
    Ehhhhh, Exile's Reach literally has zero story spoilers for the wider WoW lore. It's 100% self-contained and features an entirely new cast of characters.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I would be down if they wanted to introduce a completely linear experience as a option for those that want it. But they would have to first port the Vanilla instances of EK + Kalimdor into the game. It unfortunately not possible to play the game in a coherent sequential fashion as is.
    It woul be great, but I think that not having the vanilla zones is acceptable at first since they are available in classic. They should focus on working on the phasing of the big cities and their surroundings (like the Dranoshar's blockade that's phased at BFA and don't let you start Legion for example).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    The Horde is not under Thrall's command, the alliance is under Anduin command (who's is just a child if you've stopped at the end of classic) and basically pretty much everything in between. If you want to play for the story, you don't want to skip 7 expansions, simple.
    Wow, so the game would be spoiled for the very, very specific sub-group of people who played Classic, and then stopped playing until now.

    Even then, it's hardly a spoiler. Those are events that happened, what, 12 years and 6 years ago respectively.

  8. #28
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    They can make it so that, as a new player, you have the two boxes with "Start at Exile's Reach" and "Start at startingzone". Except that for the new players, the Exile's Reach one is in gold ans sparkly while the Starting zones one is in big red and warning that it's not advised for new players, and with a warning prompt when choosing it asking you to confirm your choice (and repeating you that it's not advised for new players).

    That way, the only one who will choose the starting zones are the ones who want to do the story in order.
    But for a new player. Where is the loss? Exile's Reach is great for new players, and they don't know anything about the old starting zones anyways, but can go there on their main or a new character in the future? At some point, a game has to invent a starting line for people to keep up, and Exile's Reach, as well as BFA, is more or less the updates of the current world a new player would need to figure out, and almost 18 years of content is a little heavy for a brand new player.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    But for a new player. Where is the loss?
    If you're a new player that don't care about the lore and jst want to play, having the two options with a big warning doesn't hurt, they will likely choose Exile's Reach because that's the one they are pushed towards. If you're a new players that just finished the three warcraft games and wow classic however, not having this choice hurts a lot, they basically can't start the story where they left it.

    So with only one choice you get it right with 99% of the players (probably more), but hurt 1% of the players (probably less). And with both choices with get it right with 100% of the players, the choice seems pretty obvious to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Exile's Reach is great for new players, and they don't know anything about the old starting zones anyways, but can go there on their main or a new character in the future?
    They do, if they care about doing the story in order, they will ask where the best starting point if you want to continue the story, and the answer is not Exile's Reach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    At some point, a game has to invent a starting line for people to keep up
    This 1% I'm talking about does not need to "keep up", they played the three Warcraft games and classic and want to continue their story, not keep up and skip 7 expansions


    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    a new player would need to figure out
    They don't need to figure out : the community is there to help them, to show them the order of the story. And you got plenty of ressources on the Internet. Just found a quest ? Type it on wowhead, if the patch it corresponds to is latter than where you are, keep it and don't do it now, easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    a new player would need to figure out
    I can assure you that's it's not too heavy for those you just want to do the story in order.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Wow, so the game would be spoiled for the very, very specific sub-group of people who played Classic, and then stopped playing until now.

    Even then, it's hardly a spoiler. Those are events that happened, what, 12 years and 6 years ago respectively.
    Yes, the players that would benefits are very rare, but I'm sure that cathering them is still worse a little tweak on the interface. And yes it happened many years ago but what's your point ? It's still spoiler for those who stopped after war 3 and wow classic ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Wow, so the game would be spoiled for the very, very specific sub-group of people who played Classic, and then stopped playing until now.

    Even then, it's hardly a spoiler. Those are events that happened, what, 12 years and 6 years ago respectively.
    Yes, the players that would benefits are very rare, but I'm sure that cathering them is still worse a little tweak on the interface. And yes it happened many years ago but what's your point ? It's still spoiler for those who stopped after war 3 and wow classic ?

  10. #30
    The right way to do this would have been returning the vanilla zones to pre cata state and streamlining/updating the graphics. Obviously avoid the grindiness present in the current classic environment.

    Hear me out.

    Vanilla was perfect as a whole world on it's own without any major single thread. It made it feel like you really were just an adventurer getting out into the unknown. That way people wouldn't have felt like there's these completely disjointed stories and instead you go through these zones, do your little thing here or there or everywhere and then be let out on your own to explore the expansion content that's present. It was generic enough then that plot threads had already been laid for the vast majority of current expansions instead of the cata/deathwing/n'zoth specific stuff we have going on right now.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    Like, if I as a "new" player want to start in Burning Crusade content after reaching level 10, I should be able to, and I should be able to queue for those dungeons (another reason is my computer is not very good in modern terms and so I would have a much better time playing older content). Right now, I can only access BFA dungeons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I wonder why no one has responded to this?
    Don't forget that Legion was A LOT easier to begin with as a new player. Artifact quests were a super smooth introduction to the game.

    It took me ~1year to learn nearly everything about the game in wotlk - and i played 4-5h daily back then.
    A new, maybe even casual, player might just be overwhelmed by all of this right now. continents, lore, systems ... hell i didn't even know what a buff is in my first dungeon.

    Since leveling is so fast right now i think a predetermined way is absolutely fine ( and needed at this point ) for the fist time leveling.

    It is also nice to have all new players in one addon - so they can play with each other in random dungeons & the world.
    Queues are also a lot longer when you choose another addon. Maybe a new player is unlucky and chooses burning crusade. The addon with pretty long dungeon queues right now - and notorious for it's boring "kill X for item Y" quests which many people hate.

    It's also aesthetics. I wouldn't want my 2022 customers to see the 2007 outland graphics.

    Freedom of choice should allways matter, you are right - but what to choose when you have no idea about anything in the game?
    Last edited by sunxsera; 2022-05-22 at 06:25 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinaa View Post
    Bfa, WoD & Legion have by far the best leveling experiences in WoW. Out of these three BfA might be the worst one, but there is an acceptable reasoning behind this choice. Leveling is not why BfA is touted by many as a bad expansion & new players won't see the content responsible for that before jumping into SL, DF.
    You see the main story line, which is more than enough...

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    You see the main story line, which is more than enough...
    The main leveling plot for BfA mostly surrounds the stories of Kul Tiras and Zandalar. Its generally liked by many and did a pretty good job as far was world building goes. The war campaign was the divisive part but its mostly a side story while leveling and the majority of it is regulated to the max level experience so most new players will never seen it.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    You see the main story line, which is more than enough...
    More than enough for what ? Everyone have its own goal ingame.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    It's insane how as a new player you are FORCED into BfA, the worst expansion to date.
    The leveling in BfA is fantastic. (atleast for Horde, I've been told Alliance is constantly helping farmers ad nauseum).

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    They really need to redo leveling. It's insane how as a new player you are FORCED into BfA, the worst expansion to date. It's something they need to rush to leave behind, but not, they are actively funneling people through that shit fest.
    You mistyped Cata as BfA
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    Like, if I as a "new" player want to start in Burning Crusade content after reaching level 10, I should be able to, and I should be able to queue for those dungeons (another reason is my computer is not very good in modern terms and so I would have a much better time playing older content). Right now, I can only access BFA dungeons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I wonder why no one has responded to this?
    Think about it, why would a new player that has no previous knowledge of the game wanna go into older content that has 20 year old graphics? Not to mention people might get confused. The first time is linear so that people can ease into it.

    You're thinking with the pov of someone who has played the game before. That's not how new players see the game.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    They really need to redo leveling. It's insane how as a new player you are FORCED into BfA, the worst expansion to date. It's something they need to rush to leave behind, but not, they are actively funneling people through that shit fest.
    Come on BFA is not the worst when they created that shit xpamsiom TBC. The only xpac I unsubbed for cause logging in on it caused me to physically get ill from how bad it was.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Think about it, why would a new player that has no previous knowledge of the game wanna go into older content that has 20 year old graphics? Not to mention people might get confused. The first time is linear so that people can ease into it.

    You're thinking with the pov of someone who has played the game before. That's not how new players see the game.
    And why couldn't a new player have any previous knowledge of the game when there is three warcraft games and wow classic ? More options are always better, period.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    You're thinking with the pov of someone who has played the game before. That's not how new players see the game.
    pretty much this, its better this way for new players and "New veterans" like OP is is so rare its pointless to make changes for so few people

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