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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    And why couldn't a new player have any previous knowledge of the game when there is three warcraft games and wow classic ? More options are always better, period.
    I didn't know the 3 RTS games gave you knowledge of how all the expansions in WoW played. Also I didn't know that Classic was all the way up to Legion. Damn, time flies fast huh?

    And no, more options aren't always better.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    And why couldn't a new player have any previous knowledge of the game when there is three warcraft games and wow classic ?
    bcs they havent played the game before? playing warcraft 1-3 or classic wow will give you VERY little knowledge about current wow or about wow expansions past tbc

    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    More options are always better, period.
    yeah, no.. definitely not always, and in this case, for new player its definitely better to have one option only on lvl 10 when he barely even seen basics of the game...
    as a completely new player, what would you base your choice on? descriptions in chromie time would tell you pretty much nothing, so you would most likely go and google info, literaly 1-2h into the game and instead of playing you would be looking for information online, thats terrible idea...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2022-05-22 at 08:17 PM.

  3. #43
    What a strange thread - this all comes from people who.......................have already played wow?!?!?!?!?!?!........."oh but this is wrong and that is wrong and this is different" - no, guys, a NEW player wouldn't have a fucking clue - they ALSO wouldn't have a fucking clue what expansion they would prefer, so the entire argument is just.............strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    bcs they havent played the game before? playing warcraft 1-3 or classic wow will give you VERY little knowledge about current wow or about wow expansions past tbc
    You dont think playing the RTS would give you some idea of who............the LK is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  4. #44
    More options (and in some cases they turn out to be better options) are always welcomed and should be considered.


    But the way you are presenting them in your OP with the quasi-whining nature to your post is probably why you are getting some specific kind of responses here.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    bcs they havent played the game before? playing warcraft 1-3 or classic wow will give you VERY little knowledge about current wow or about wow expansions past tbc
    Playing Warcraft 1-3 + wow classic gives you all the knowledge to start Burning Crusade in retail, by definition since BC is the direct continuation of them. The issue is precisely those players can't start at BC because they are forced into BFA. And yes, those players are maybe 0.01% of the playerbase, but allowing them to choose any expansion would likely require only a few UI tweaks are the creation of the character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    yeah, no.. definitely not always, and in this case, for new player its definitely better to have one option only on lvl 10 when he barely even seen basics of the game...
    as a completely new player, what would you base your choice on? descriptions in chromie time would tell you pretty much nothing, so you would most likely go and google info, literaly 1-2h into the game and instead of playing you would be looking for information online, thats terrible idea...
    As I explained before, the plan is not to have the same interface for new players as for veterans. The idea is to give the possiblity for new players to play like they want, but there should still be clear indication that Exile's Reach into BFA is the advised route for new players (but not the mandatory one). Think something like this (way nicer obviously, my design skills are pretty much as high as Cairne importance during SL, and sorry for the french) :

    https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/20/ijbm.png

    And when clicking on the mesa, you got a pick alert pop-up asking you "ARE YOU REALLY SURE ?", with a red button "Yes, I want to start in Mesa".

    Same for Chromie, she would say something like "Are you sure that you want to use my service ? It's not advised for a newcomer like you".

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I didn't know the 3 RTS games gave you knowledge of how all the expansions in WoW played. Also I didn't know that Classic was all the way up to Legion. Damn, time flies fast huh?

    And no, more options aren't always better.
    the 3RTS games + WoW classic give you all the knwoledge needed to start BC in retail, what the ones looking to play for the story would likely start with. And more option ARE always better, as soon as the advised path is clear for the newcomers (see my picture above).
    Last edited by Zardas; 2022-05-22 at 09:42 PM. Reason: Bad image link

  6. #46
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Honestly, I think regardless of how a new player starts in WoW, they're gonna be largely confused with the plot and where to start... TBC will only confuse them further because it's content that's over a decade old. They're better off playing WoW classic to get an understanding of TBC or Wrath's plotlines.
    There is no way to salvage the new player's "don't know anything about Warcraft" story experience, not without Blizzard investing the time and effort into implementing a FFXIV-style MSQ and creating new quests that depict important events like Cairne's death ingame. But Blizzard is clearly unwilling to invest the time, money, and attention into WoW that they used to do a decade ago, so there is no hope of that happening.

  7. #47
    You can do chromie time. You just have to complete the intro quest to BFA.

  8. #48
    Why would a brand new player even know or care about chromie time?

    Na it's better if new players have a linear understanding of recent expansions to better understand what's going on in the current one.

  9. #49
    Stood in the Fire Wylyth1992's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    bcs they havent played the game before? playing warcraft 1-3 or classic wow will give you VERY little knowledge about current wow or about wow expansions past tbc


    yeah, no.. definitely not always, and in this case, for new player its definitely better to have one option only on lvl 10 when he barely even seen basics of the game...
    as a completely new player, what would you base your choice on? descriptions in chromie time would tell you pretty much nothing, so you would most likely go and google info, literaly 1-2h into the game and instead of playing you would be looking for information online, thats terrible idea...
    Small correction, I'm a woman. And I pretty much know the basics of the game.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    Playing Warcraft 1-3 + wow classic gives you all the knowledge to start Burning Crusade in retail, by definition since BC is the direct continuation of them. The issue is precisely those players can't start at BC because they are forced into BFA. And yes, those players are maybe 0.01% of the playerbase, but allowing them to choose any expansion would likely require only a few UI tweaks are the creation of the character.



    As I explained before, the plan is not to have the same interface for new players as for veterans. The idea is to give the possiblity for new players to play like they want, but there should still be clear indication that Exile's Reach into BFA is the advised route for new players (but not the mandatory one). Think something like this (way nicer obviously, my design skills are pretty much as high as Cairne importance during SL, and sorry for the french) :

    https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/20/ijbm.png

    And when clicking on the mesa, you got a pick alert pop-up asking you "ARE YOU REALLY SURE ?", with a red button "Yes, I want to start in Mesa".

    Same for Chromie, she would say something like "Are you sure that you want to use my service ? It's not advised for a newcomer like you".



    the 3RTS games + WoW classic give you all the knwoledge needed to start BC in retail, what the ones looking to play for the story would likely start with. And more option ARE always better, as soon as the advised path is clear for the newcomers (see my picture above).
    I can basically guarantee that there's more than 0.01% of players who'd pick the wrong option just to try it, and then would lodge support tickets asking for their choice to be changed because they chose wrong. The support load eclipses any benefit they'd get by allowing this, so no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  11. #51
    I kind of feel like island expeditions should be pointed out to new players a lot more. They give decent xp and if you get a lucky drop a lot of gold for starting out.

    That said it is a bit silly to not let players pick their expansion to level in. I can get why you would want to push them towards more modern expansions..

  12. #52
    I have just recently experienced said problem on my second account (same bnet), where after Exiles Reach I was forced to do BfA (eventhough i have multiple 50+ characters on another account on same bnet) ... however, i noticed that this happens only if I do ER... if I level normally to lvl10, i am able to select Chromie timeline... also, i can select Chromie with DK/DH as well... not sure if this is intended like that, but at least I am not forced to do BFA (on a side note, I am doing it on my lvl52 mage for Allied races purposes)...

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    Small correction, I'm a woman. And I pretty much know the basics of the game.
    and i wasnt talking about you, as you said yourself you are not really new player
    i believe system as it is now is better for new players, you are exception bcs you are not really new player, but changing the system making it worse for new players just so its slightly better for handful of players who already played BFA is kinda stupid

  14. #54
    "Let's broke something that is good" thread. WoW currently has best new player experience compared to most MMOs. Not flooding you with ton of different paths or old expansions is big part of it.

  15. #55
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    I have no problem with it being the default option, but if a player wants to go find Chromie and do Chromie Time, they should be able to, Veteran or not. Freedom of choice.
    But you shouldn´t have such "freedom of choice".
    Devs should lead new players through the game. New players cannot lead themselves, because they have no idea what they are doing.

    If you create a new complex product, full of options and configurations, you make a presentation of it. You don´t just let people in and look into it for themselves, they don´t know what they are doing.

  16. #56
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    What a strange thread - this all comes from people who.......................have already played wow?!?!?!?!?!?!........."oh but this is wrong and that is wrong and this is different" - no, guys, a NEW player wouldn't have a fucking clue - they ALSO wouldn't have a fucking clue what expansion they would prefer, so the entire argument is just.............strange.
    How I felt when I saw the thread..

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    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    But you shouldn´t have such "freedom of choice".
    Devs should lead new players through the game. New players cannot lead themselves, because they have no idea what they are doing.

    If you create a new complex product, full of options and configurations, you make a presentation of it. You don´t just let people in and look into it for themselves, they don´t know what they are doing.
    Indeed. You want to be able to guide the newly arrived players, and not just go, "In you go, don't get lost!".
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Wylyth1992 View Post
    Like, if I as a "new" player want to start in Burning Crusade content after reaching level 10, I should be able to, and I should be able to queue for those dungeons (another reason is my computer is not very good in modern terms and so I would have a much better time playing older content). Right now, I can only access BFA dungeons.

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    I wonder why no one has responded to this?
    So..? if your computer cant handle retail wow now? What are you gonna do when you get to level 50? are you just not gonna level to 60? cause those graphics are pretty much the same if not more than BFA.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    But you shouldn´t have such "freedom of choice".
    Devs should lead new players through the game. New players cannot lead themselves, because they have no idea what they are doing.

    If you create a new complex product, full of options and configurations, you make a presentation of it. You don´t just let people in and look into it for themselves, they don´t know what they are doing.
    What many of you seems to fail to understand is that if the UI is clear enough you can be lead through the game, and being free at the same time, those are not two incompatible concepts.
    Just put a very small buttons on the very edge of the character creation screen for new players that is used to create a character outside of Exile's Reach. And with a warning when you click on it displaying that it's not an option advised for new players. And this pop-up has a very small "Yes, I understand the risk" red button that you must click to validate. See, most people won't even bother trying to click on that buttons, only those who truly want it (so those you have a desire to start at the beginning) will. And for Chromie time, don't even advise it to new players, that way they are not lad towards it, but still give them the possiblity to use it when speaking to Chromie.

    By leading players, you cather to only the category of players that need to be lead, only to those who don't want to continune their journey because they are starting it, only to those who don't have gathered informations on the game beforehand (and yes, that likely represent quit the vast majority of players, but again : it's just a few UI tweaks).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yooginava182 View Post
    So..? if your computer cant handle retail wow now? What are you gonna do when you get to level 50? are you just not gonna level to 60? cause those graphics are pretty much the same if not more than BFA.
    You can totally get 60 without going to the new zones, you're pretty much guarantee to always be ahead of the level of ennemy if you only do the quests and the archelogy nodes along the way (source : myself).

  19. #59
    Chromie time should require loremaster and adjust with each new expansion. Maybe not that strict but I do think it worth for all players to see a portion of core expansion content before just jumping into whatever they want to do in the world.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    "Let's broke something that is good" thread. WoW currently has best new player experience compared to most MMOs. Not flooding you with ton of different paths or old expansions is big part of it.
    It's not about flooding, it's about giving the option only to those who want it (and that's totally possible with a clear UI)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athorha View Post
    Chromie time should require loremaster and adjust with each new expansion. Maybe not that strict but I do think it worth for all players to see a portion of core expansion content before just jumping into whatever they want to do in the world.
    Not for all players : only for those who don't want to do all the story in order (granteed, that gather more than 99% of the players, but still : not all players).

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