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  1. #61
    Field Marshal THC BANDIT's Avatar
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    So many weirdos on here with weirdo opinions.. stay grounded my boy.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    If mythic dropped no gear, nobody would do it. Same as every other content.
    same as nobody is doing m+ above +15s or +20s?
    Gear is a tool to reach a goal for those who seek challenge. It would actually make it much better from tuning and balance perspective.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    If mythic dropped no gear, nobody would do it. Same as every other content.
    I would do it. I do it for the challenge, not for the loot. And at least my half my raid team thinks the same.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    I would do it. I do it for the challenge, not for the loot. And at least my half my raid team thinks the same.
    And how would you do a 20M raid with 10 people?

  5. #65
    The irony of this post is your saying there shouldn't be mythic gear because it should be competetive, not about gear and then follow that by saying how players spend half their time in heroic splits. Almost none of the gear on the people who are competeing comes from mythic so removing mythic gear would solve nothing, if anything it would just create a greater need for heroic splits the very thing you say you don't enjoy watching. You then go on to talk about how the difference in gear shouldn't be so great, a change that would again make the problem of heroic splits worse.

    What really is your problem here? Because to me it looks like someone pretending it's about competition and fairness but in reality it's just another person butt-hurt over the fact they can't get the best gear.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    same as nobody is doing m+ above +15s or +20s?
    Gear is a tool to reach a goal for those who seek challenge. It would actually make it much better from tuning and balance perspective.
    But contrary to doing m+ above 15 mythic raiding is a logistical challenge. Getting 20 players from one realm together is hard enough. On my realmpool and faction there is exactly one guild who does mythic and this guild is at 1/11m last time I checked.

    But I agree with OP in one point: Mythic gear should drop on heroic. Raids don't reward enough compared to m+. If you're fully 265 geared, you have to be quite a good player to clear heroic and no slackers may be on your raid. Compare this to doing a m+10, which awards 265 gear in the great vault. One skilled tank could carry 4 slackers through that dungeon.
    Raiding already is a just for fun activity for anyone running m+, since getting gear through raids is infinitly harder than doing m+. It's really unnecessary to remove mythic gear, but it is necessary to improve mythic accessability and the rewards for doing heroic.

    Just upgrade raid gear in the vault like m+ gear is upgraded. Or make it upgradable with Valor. I don't know why m+ is a so much simpler way of getting gear if some simple adjustments could make getting gear through raids so much better.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    same as nobody is doing m+ above +15s or +20s?
    Gear is a tool to reach a goal for those who seek challenge. It would actually make it much better from tuning and balance perspective.
    Here's someone who gets it. It took a while.

  8. #68
    slay dragon in the wetlands while leveling, get loot = totally fine
    slay harder dragon in a dungeon, get loot = totally fine
    slay even harder dragon in lfr-hc raid, get loot = totally fine
    slay hardest dragon in a mythic raid, get loot = oh noes this is so wrong

    Like dude wtf? Slay dragon, get loot is the basic gameplay loop of the game since forever.

  9. #69
    I find it fundamentally bad game design in an RPG (or any game where character progression is involved) where the most challenging part of the game is just a trophy collecting business.
    The most challenging content should yield the best gear, simply because it makes sense.
    Exceptions can be made for content that involves infinitive scaling content, but generally speaking, merely getting some cosmetic reward for the most challenging content within a game simply leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    It feels unrewarding that killing some random enemies for a quest gives me a tangible reward, whereas defeating the biggest bad in the land gives me a good noodle star.

    Reminds me of some RPG's where the hardest boss isn't actually the final boss, but some optional boss in the sewers because the final boss actually being the most challenging boss is "too demanding" for some players.

    That being said, some discussion surrounding Mythic (or the number of raid difficulties existing in WoW) is fine.

    Mythic has devolved into a wankfest between the Encounter design team and the Top 50 guilds, meanwhile those bosses require multiple nerfs so that more "casual mythic" guilds can actually defeat them.
    And on the other end, there is way in hell to design rewards that feel remotely statisfying for an encounter that requires like 300+ wipes to overcome, because slapping some extra Ilvl on a few items + some mount you can just farm later on sure as shit don't cut it.

    I'd rather have an easier highest difficulty with the best rewards than the current cutting edge difficulty without any rewards.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I find it fundamentally bad game design in an RPG (or any game where character progression is involved) where the most challenging part of the game is just a trophy collecting business.
    The most challenging content should yield the best gear, simply because it makes sense.
    Exceptions can be made for content that involves infinitive scaling content, but generally speaking, merely getting some cosmetic reward for the most challenging content within a game simply leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    It feels unrewarding that killing some random enemies for a quest gives me a tangible reward, whereas defeating the biggest bad in the land gives me a good noodle star.

    Reminds me of some RPG's where the hardest boss isn't actually the final boss, but some optional boss in the sewers because the final boss actually being the most challenging boss is "too demanding" for some players.

    That being said, some discussion surrounding Mythic (or the number of raid difficulties existing in WoW) is fine.

    Mythic has devolved into a wankfest between the Encounter design team and the Top 50 guilds, meanwhile those bosses require multiple nerfs so that more "casual mythic" guilds can actually defeat them.
    And on the other end, there is way in hell to design rewards that feel remotely statisfying for an encounter that requires like 300+ wipes to overcome, because slapping some extra Ilvl on a few items + some mount you can just farm later on sure as shit don't cut it.

    I'd rather have an easier highest difficulty with the best rewards than the current cutting edge difficulty without any rewards.
    Eh, the final and most challenging encounter in most RPGs doesn't really reward much because . . . well because the game ends there.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Eh, the final and most challenging encounter in most RPGs doesn't really reward much because . . . well because the game ends there.
    A lot of games have some form of post game elements or New game+.
    It has become far less common that a game is actually over once the last boss is dead or you don't have any possibility to play around with your stuff.

    Nevermind that WoW has done that since forever, it's just that they later on add new stuff on top that replaces rewards from the last boss, but during its respective phase, the last boss usually has had the best loot.

  12. #72
    Yes, lets start fixing what's working well, Mr Burner Account.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Syncr View Post
    Yeah 100%. That’s why no one farms old raids anymore, no one pushes rating in pvp after they get fully gear, and once people are all done gearing in mythic they stop 100% of the time.
    dont forget nobody runs m+ above 15

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    This topic is nothing more than a wordy explanation of why the OP is jealous people who are better at the game than him have access to things he doesn't.
    tbh if the rewards were purely cosmetic people who are better would STILL have access to things op doesnt...

  14. #74
    Part of the fun of raiding is the aquisitoon of gear and watching yourself get stronger vs the boss. Its by no means the only part, but you didn't give a good reason to deprive mythic raiders of it.

    A different approach I'm in favor of would be to allow casuals access to mythic raid level gear, but much slower than mythic raiders/m+15 guys. This gives them a goal to chase even if they're not comfortable with hard group content, without threatening the faster power gains of organized group content.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    But contrary to doing m+ above 15 mythic raiding is a logistical challenge. Getting 20 players from one realm together is hard enough. On my realmpool and faction there is exactly one guild who does mythic and this guild is at 1/11m last time I checked.
    Yes, because limiting player pool to your realm only for Mythic raiding is, frankly, idiotic. Get rid of that dumb restriction already; looking how things are going right now, I can't see 100 Alliance guilds killing Jailer on Mythic by the end of the patch. It's one of the most divisive things ever made by Blizzard and it should be long gone by now.

  16. #76
    Pandaren Monk czarek's Avatar
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    No? Obviously. LFR has his place for non raiding players to just explore content. No gear in mythic ? Please who would do this anyway except hardcore raiders ? Like im doin LFR and some normal maybe a bit of HC if raid rally pick me up. Im focued on m+ so LFR is great place for me to just explore.
    Last edited by czarek; 2022-05-23 at 11:05 AM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    Part of the fun of raiding is the aquisitoon of gear and watching yourself get stronger vs the boss. Its by no means the only part, but you didn't give a good reason to deprive mythic raiders of it.

    A different approach I'm in favor of would be to allow casuals access to mythic raid level gear, but much slower than mythic raiders/m+15 guys. This gives them a goal to chase even if they're not comfortable with hard group content, without threatening the faster power gains of organized group content.
    I don't think it even has to be mythic. At many points in WoW, casual players could slowly get up to a tier below max (most recently in BfA you could easily get to full Heroic gear, weapons, trinkets and all without instanced content just by doing world pvp). Key word as you said, slowly.

    And as for Mythic raiding, it's probably the ONLY raiding difficulty that is not problematic when it comes to gear progression.
    LFR gear is below catch up gear, can have crazy wait times (at times even for tanks/healers), often drops you in the middle of the instance making you redo the wing again if you want a specific boss. Only there to let people see the raid and maybe complete a quest. It was meaningful in xpacs were it was the only source of weapons/trinkets/tier for casuals but that hasn't been true for a while.
    Normal gearing speed is currently eclipsed by the Cypher system. Raiding does not gear you fast while Cyphers do. In Legion and BfA, emissaries would give you gear much faster than normal as well.
    As for Heroic it competes poorly with M+ when a M+15 is relatively easier than many Heroic encounters yet can reward Mythic ilvl gear. Sure it takes an investment for PuG players to get the score for that but once you do, you have far less reason to run the raid other than specific BiS items.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-05-23 at 11:12 AM.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by conkrete View Post
    Here's someone who gets it. It took a while.
    When you said no gear your main issue was about the stats and power level right? Not cosmetic?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    tbh if the rewards were purely cosmetic people who are better would STILL have access to things op doesnt...
    He showed his true colors right after this post. He's one of those "so good at life I don't need WoW but I still want all the stuff... because reasons" people.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    He showed his true colors right after this post. He's one of those "so good at life I don't need WoW but I still want all the stuff... because reasons" people.
    …. Your point?

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