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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    It may not make it wrong, but you said nothing yet to make it right.
    Um ok?

    I believe the game should have systems in that respect your time more, as in you shouldn’t have to spend days of gametime in order to ENTER the content that you wish to play. A random casual should realistically be at least able to step into and compete with everyone else within a month or so of very casual play.

    Other games and mmos do this and they do just fine. Look at destiny 2, you can hit the ‘cap’ for gear INSANELY fast and almost all of this gear is obtained through weeklies that are done in a system similar to a random heroic dungeon que.

    Giving people more gear for being casual does not hurt you as a hardcore player at all. If anything this just ADDS to the possible group pool you could be having.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    snip
    I mean, yeah, didn't think about many guilds being able to beat bosses just by pure brute force.
    I don't think abolishing gear is the way, but normal gear as a reward for HARD stuff is very boring, especially when you are essentially getting same items, just better ilvl, it doesn't matter if it's a chest piece of Sire or Jailer - you are looking for haste/mastery chest piece, getting special items is always nice tho, but there must be alternatives for that - It's cool for raids to have special weapons and stuff, but if there is no alternative for ultimate pvp or m+ achievements - it's sad af. Same from casual content, all you get from some hard ass grindy achievement is a mount or a pet while it could be some big ass powerful item, even if it takes a while to get.
    I don't like gear is currently is for the most part as it is same shit, scaled ilvl make it more bearable

    Also, with new upcoming replacement for borrowed power - "set" ilvl would allow you to experience challenges years apart at nearly the same difficulty as intended bar class and special effect item changes.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Syncr View Post
    That isn’t a response at all, that’s just a lazy thing people say when they have nothing to add.

    “DONT LIKE THE GAME DONT PLAY IT”

    Great input, let me know when you have something to add to the discussion.
    Please don't lecture me on lazy arguments when you're complaining about a video game not respecting your time.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Please don't lecture me on lazy arguments when you're complaining about a video game not respecting your time.
    Care to elaborate or?

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    There's no discussion to have if the premise is wrong, and I firmly believe yours is: it's not the game's obligation to "respect your time". Game gives you a way to spend your time, and it's down to you to decide if it's a time well spent or not. Simple as that. So yours "WoW needs to respect my time" translates into: "I want my rewards faster". That's all there is to it.
    I mean there is a middle ground. Pushing trivial content like AP or renowned isn't interesting or enjoyable gameplay for those who do harder difficulties.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Please don't lecture me on lazy arguments when you're complaining about a video game not respecting your time.
    The irony here is outstanding, please think about what you're currently doing here, on which forum you are and on which topic you're commenting on. You don't respect your very own time yourself, obviously so what are you trying to state here?

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Syncr View Post
    Care to elaborate or?
    My entire argument from the jump has been that this is a lazy, inarticulate way to criticize this video game. It's a pointless non-criticism. "Respecting time" in a video game is such an abstract indefinable concept that it's barely worth typing out. What you find respectful of your time somebody else may find to be an absolute chore. It's a weird way to say that you want the video game catered to specifically your taste without ever having to, you know, actually say what it is that you want.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    My entire argument from the jump has been that this is a lazy, inarticulate way to criticize this video game. It's a pointless non-criticism. "Respecting time" in a video game is such an abstract indefinable concept that it's barely worth typing out. What you find respectful of your time somebody else may find to be an absolute chore. It's a weird way to say that you want the video game catered to specifically your taste without ever having to, you know, actually say what it is that you want.
    At the very top of this way I was very specific about what I meant by respecting your time. You can go up and read it if you think that’s abstract.

    I believe the game should have systems in that respect your time more, as in you shouldn’t have to spend days of gametime in order to ENTER the content that you wish to play. A random casual should realistically be at least able to step into and compete with everyone else within a month or so of very casual play.

    Other games and mmos do this and they do just fine. Look at destiny 2, you can hit the ‘cap’ for gear INSANELY fast and almost all of this gear is obtained through weeklies that are done in a system similar to a random heroic dungeon que.

    Giving people more gear for being casual does not hurt you as a hardcore player at all. If anything this just ADDS to the possible group pool you could be having.
    If you really need it more specific I can do that.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by ulululu View Post
    The irony here is outstanding, please think about what you're currently doing here, on which forum you are and on which topic you're commenting on. You don't respect your very own time yourself, obviously so what are you trying to state here?
    lmfao -- I don't give a shit about my own time and I never claimed otherwise so this is neither ironic nor a valid criticism of my comment. I'm not the one making lazy, shitty arguments that amount to little more than whiny entitlement.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2022-05-23 at 04:03 PM.

  10. #130
    Based on the new philsophy of the devs nothing should drop gear anymore.

    Well, nothing except every gameplay Ion loves.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Syncr View Post
    A random casual should realistically be at least able to step into and compete with everyone else within a month or so of very casual play.
    Why should they?

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Why should they?
    Because it makes the game more enjoyable? Because it allows you to step into content quicker and actually get to the part of the game that you want to play quicker?

    The question you should be asking is why shouldn’t it? A change like this would not effect hardcore players at all. Someone else having gear and raiding mythic does not effect how your mythic group performs at all.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Syncr View Post
    At the very top of this way I was very specific about what I meant by respecting your time. You can go up and read it if you think that’s abstract.



    If you really need it more specific I can do that.
    Cool. But that's what you want. Anybody can get on the internet and write up a list of things they want from the video game. The problem is that if you ask 100 MMO players what they want, you get 100 answers. And people just want their singular, lone voice to matter more than everybody else's so when I hear that WoW isn't "respecting (my) time" what it usually amounts to is that WoW isn't giving that player the 100% tailor-made MMO experience they desire. Considering how difficult it would be to please all players, this feels like an ineffective (imo) way to commiserate with other players who may have similar sentiments but ultimately may want entirely different things from the game.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2022-05-23 at 04:04 PM.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Syncr View Post
    Because it makes the game more enjoyable? Because it allows you to step into content quicker and actually get to the part of the game that you want to play quicker?

    The question you should be asking is why shouldn’t it? A change like this would not effect hardcore players at all. Someone else having gear and raiding mythic does not effect how your mythic group performs at all.
    Depending on your version of very casual play, a player can definitely step into all content within a month. I dont think they should be "competing" against ppl that have spent months building their character tho.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Cool. But that's what you want. Anybody can get on the internet and write up a list of things they want from the video game. The problem is that if you ask 100 MMO players what they want, you get 100 answers. And people just want their singular, lone voice to matter more than everybody else's so when I hear that WoW isn't "respecting (my) time" what it usually amounts to is that WoW isn't giving that player the 100% tailor-made MMO experience they desire. Considering how difficult it would be to please all players, this feels like an ineffective way to commiserate with other players who may have similar sentiments but ultimately may want entirely different things from the game.
    That’s literally what forums are for. To voice YOUR opinions and have discussions about them. You asked for an opinion. You asked for clarification. I gave it to you. I’m really not sure what you’re arguing here. Someone suggests a change and you ignore it and just say “well that’s your opinion so let’s not change anything”.

    You understand following that logic no one can ever ask for any change ever about anything in wow again until the dawn of time right?

    “We need to open flying”

    “Yeah sorry but that’s just YOUR opinion so let’s not talk about it”

    “We need to open up mythics to cross faction”

    “Yeah sorry but that’s just YOUR opinion so let’s not talk about it”

    “We need to add in this change that cycles through old raid content”

    “Yeah sorry but that’s just YOUR opinion so let’s not talk about it”

    Like in your world if anyone is ever suggesting anything then we need to just not talk…. In a forum. So I guess we should just delete every thread now that isn’t praising the game about how awesome it is.

  16. #136
    Terrible ideas all around and very self centered...
    More people play this game than you and in many different ways
    OP has no clue imo

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I dont think they should be "competing" against ppl that have spent months building their character tho.
    I most certainly do though. I understand this mindset, I use to have it for a very long time as well. But I’ve since tried other games that did exactly this and I realized “you know what? Why NOT allow people to compete and just play off skill”.

    Those who want to spend that amount of time in the game are rewarded in other ways.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    I mean, yeah, didn't think about many guilds being able to beat bosses just by pure brute force.
    I don't think abolishing gear is the way, but normal gear as a reward for HARD stuff is very boring, especially when you are essentially getting same items, just better ilvl, it doesn't matter if it's a chest piece of Sire or Jailer - you are looking for haste/mastery chest piece, getting special items is always nice tho, but there must be alternatives for that - It's cool for raids to have special weapons and stuff, but if there is no alternative for ultimate pvp or m+ achievements - it's sad af. Same from casual content, all you get from some hard ass grindy achievement is a mount or a pet while it could be some big ass powerful item, even if it takes a while to get.
    I don't like gear is currently is for the most part as it is same shit, scaled ilvl make it more bearable

    Also, with new upcoming replacement for borrowed power - "set" ilvl would allow you to experience challenges years apart at nearly the same difficulty as intended bar class and special effect item changes.
    Doesn't mythic raiding give many achievements, though? And a title as well as a mount if you beat it (which, granted, nearly nobody does). That's pretty much the same as in PvP and m+, isn't it? I agree about casual content to an extend, since Torghast gives you plenty of achievements and other cosmetics.

    Also I have been noticing something else I failed to mention yet:
    m+ pushing is about getting a non cosmetic reward:
    the keystone hero achievement gets the 278 conduits, which is pretty much the same as getting gear. So only the ones pushing for more than 3000 rating are purely playing for bragging rights. And I think that's an extremely small sample of the playerbase.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Syncr View Post
    That’s literally what forums are for. To voice YOUR opinions and have discussions about them. You asked for an opinion. You asked for clarification. I gave it to you. I’m really not sure what you’re arguing here. Someone suggests a change and you ignore it and just say “well that’s your opinion so let’s not change anything”.

    You understand following that logic no one can ever ask for any change ever about anything in wow again until the dawn of time right?

    “We need to open flying”

    “Yeah sorry but that’s just YOUR opinion so let’s not talk about it”

    “We need to open up mythics to cross faction”

    “Yeah sorry but that’s just YOUR opinion so let’s not talk about it”

    “We need to add in this change that cycles through old raid content”

    “Yeah sorry but that’s just YOUR opinion so let’s not talk about it”

    Like in your world if anyone is ever suggesting anything then we need to just not talk…. In a forum. So I guess we should just delete every thread now that isn’t praising the game about how awesome it is.
    Dude, you're either not reading what I'm writing or you're deliberating misinterpreting it to create arguments that I'm not presenting. I have no problem with criticism of the game on a forum. I never once have said I did. I'm also not saying that you have to be positive about WoW to discuss the game on a forum; I'm a saying boring, non-criticism like "the game doesn't respect my time," is another way to spin entitlement which does little to further discussion about how to improve anything.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2022-05-23 at 04:34 PM.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Doesn't mythic raiding give many achievements, though? And a title as well as a mount if you beat it (which, granted, nearly nobody does). That's pretty much the same as in PvP and m+, isn't it? I agree about casual content to an extend, since Torghast gives you plenty of achievements and other cosmetics.

    Also I have been noticing something else I failed to mention yet:
    m+ pushing is about getting a non cosmetic reward:
    the keystone hero achievement gets the 278 conduits, which is pretty much the same as getting gear. So only the ones pushing for more than 3000 rating are purely playing for bragging rights. And I think that's an extremely small sample of the playerbase.
    Looks like 23% have keystone explorer s3, 16% have keystone conquest s3, 12% have ksm s3. 3% have ksh s3. No real good way to check how many have moved past but its definitely a very small amount.

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