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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I can only imagine they were those small flip-open windows above eye-level, though. If they were floor-to-ceiling windows, then the shooter would have been taken out much sooner, right?

    Still, if the rooms that the shooter was in had the same smaller, higher windows, why couldn't they, like, stack a desk or two high enough to get a shot at the guy?

    This just doesn't make sense. Early reports said that the police or the border guards were removing the kids from the school in those early minutes. But now it obviously seems like that wasn't the case, or at least it was only a few kids and now the rest of them.

    But... why not? What could have stopped them from getting the rest of the 500+ kids outta there right away?


    And more coming from the link.
    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2022...are-evacuated/

  2. #682
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    What the actual fuck? It's like a bad joke: "How many cops does it take to get a kid out of a window?" There's literally 14 in that first picture...

    These pictures raise so many questions for me.

    (Not that there weren't still lots of unanswered questions already, of course.)
    Last edited by PhaelixWW; 2022-05-29 at 07:40 AM.


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  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Once you control for population differences, that's more than 70x as many as Canada. That isn't "proportional", and I already explained this in detail, so I don't know why you figured you could repeat it and not get called out for lying about the facts.
    There's one other consideration for mass shootings in small population countries. There's so few of them they're almost statistical anomalies. Sure you can apply all kinds of per capita math you like but that won't really help your argument.

    Canada's most recent mass shooting is fucking bizarre. A successful denturist with a cop fetish collected equipment for years. He was generally an asshole in life (a potential red flag) but his business was also hurt by the COVID pandemic which might have set him off. There's nothing else like it. You can't compare it to anything.

    Extreme cases like Anders Breivak or Brenton Tarrant seem more run of the mill in their motivations but both of their actions required huge amounts of planning and are also singular events in their respective countries. The US on the other hand has numerous politically or socially motivated killings, many of which required little planning. The US makes these events easy. A wing nut can buy a gun and start shooting the second he steps out of the gun store.

    Edit: I should also point out both of Canada's most recent shootings were done with illegally obtained weapons.
    Last edited by Ivanstone; 2022-05-29 at 02:28 PM.

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    What the actual fuck? It's like a bad joke: "How many cops does it take to get a kid out of a window?" There's literally 14 in that first picture...

    These pictures raise so many questions for me.

    (Not that there weren't still lots of unanswered questions already, of course.)
    To be absolutely fair, in a situation such as this forming an orderly and efficient plan on the fly can be pretty hard. Everyone is super stressed and panicked, kids are involved and running around, and I kinda doubt cops have extensive training for such crisis situations. I'm not overly surprised that they'd do stuff like this.

    This is not an all-encompassing excuse however, clearly the entire thing was grossly mismanaged by the police. Even if stupid stuff like some guy being on Snapchat isn't true it remains shocking that so many law enforcement officers were on the scene yet did everything but stop the killer.

    Worst part is, they'll likely use that to lobby for increased funding- "well things woulda gone better if we had more moneyz". Which instead of using for training they'll likely throw at more guns and military equipment that they're both untrained in and too chickenshit to actually use.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

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  5. #685
    Legendary! Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    To be absolutely fair, in a situation such as this forming an orderly and efficient plan on the fly can be pretty hard. Everyone is super stressed and panicked, kids are involved and running around, and I kinda doubt cops have extensive training for such crisis situations. I'm not overly surprised that they'd do stuff like this.

    This is not an all-encompassing excuse however, clearly the entire thing was grossly mismanaged by the police. Even if stupid stuff like some guy being on Snapchat isn't true it remains shocking that so many law enforcement officers were on the scene yet did everything but stop the killer.

    Worst part is, they'll likely use that to lobby for increased funding- "well things woulda gone better if we had more moneyz". Which instead of using for training they'll likely throw at more guns and military equipment that they're both untrained in and too chickenshit to actually use.
    They actually had Active Shooter training 2 months ago.
    Which every officer participated in.
    Which they distinctly did NOT follow through on in the slightest.
    The local police, who had training for this:
    Last edited by Poopymonster; 2022-05-29 at 02:50 PM.
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    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    They actually had Active Shooter training 2 months ago.
    Which every officer participated in.
    Which they distinctly did NOT follow through on in the slightest.
    The local police, who had training for this:
    Oh. Well I got nothing then. They suck and are all responsible for this mess.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    They actually had Active Shooter training 2 months ago.
    Which every officer participated in.
    Which they distinctly did NOT follow through on in the slightest.
    The local police, who had training for this:
    Reminds me of another cop who had recently trained on a taser before murdering a guy because she thought a pistol was a taser. Seems like we need more than training to fix our cop problems.

  8. #688
    With the number of mass shootings that there have been, it was probably inevitable that sooner or later one would occur in a location with a totally inept local police force. And it looks very much like that's what happened. It's good to see that the DOJ is now launching an investigation into the tragic police response.

    It's hard to understate what a failure by law enforcement this was. The best analogy I've seen is that this was like firemen reporting to an orphanage on fire, and refusing to go in for fear of being burned. It's even worse than that actually, it was like they also actively tried to stop others from putting out the fire. This was a breakdown in law enforcement in the worst possible way.

    I have a friend in law enforcement. Once I asked him if he ever worries about his wife if something happened to him on the job. He responded, "At the end of the day, I'm going home". I.E. in a situation like this, he's keeping himself safe outside cowering in cover. Chilling to think about in hindsight. It's not an isolated problem. We put our children's safety in the responsibility of the state when they go to school, and they failed. They failed to get this person the mental health that was needed sooner, they failed to stop a person with known history of violent mental issues from buying weapons, and worst of all the police failed to protect the children when this happened.

  9. #689
    Legendary! Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    With the number of mass shootings that there have been, it was probably inevitable that sooner or later one would occur in a location with a totally inept local police force. And it looks very much like that's what happened. It's good to see that the DOJ is now launching an investigation into the tragic police response.

    It's hard to understate what a failure by law enforcement this was. The best analogy I've seen is that this was like firemen reporting to an orphanage on fire, and refusing to go in for fear of being burned. It's even worse than that actually, it was like they also actively tried to stop others from putting out the fire. This was a breakdown in law enforcement in the worst possible way.

    I have a friend in law enforcement. Once I asked him if he ever worries about his wife if something happened to him on the job. He responded, "At the end of the day, I'm going home". I.E. in a situation like this, he's keeping himself safe outside cowering in cover. Chilling to think about in hindsight. It's not an isolated problem. We put our children's safety in the responsibility of the state when they go to school, and they failed. They failed to get this person the mental health that was needed sooner, they failed to stop a person with known history of violent mental issues from buying weapons, and worst of all the police failed to protect the children when this happened.
    How long until Abbott cries and scream about federal overreach, those cops did their best, tragedy happens, LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
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  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    With the number of mass shootings that there have been, it was probably inevitable that sooner or later one would occur in a location with a totally inept local police force. And it looks very much like that's what happened. It's good to see that the DOJ is now launching an investigation into the tragic police response.

    It's hard to understate what a failure by law enforcement this was. The best analogy I've seen is that this was like firemen reporting to an orphanage on fire, and refusing to go in for fear of being burned. It's even worse than that actually, it was like they also actively tried to stop others from putting out the fire. This was a breakdown in law enforcement in the worst possible way.

    I have a friend in law enforcement. Once I asked him if he ever worries about his wife if something happened to him on the job. He responded, "At the end of the day, I'm going home". I.E. in a situation like this, he's keeping himself safe outside cowering in cover. Chilling to think about in hindsight. It's not an isolated problem. We put our children's safety in the responsibility of the state when they go to school, and they failed. They failed to get this person the mental health that was needed sooner, they failed to stop a person with known history of violent mental issues from buying weapons, and worst of all the police failed to protect the children when this happened.
    Any cop, and firefighter or anyone else that says they aren't scared going into a dangerous situation, they are insane. However, being afraid isn't an excuse to not do what is needed. Those cops that were afraid to get shot sealed the fates of those children and teachers. Those children and teachers had a greater then 0% chance at survival up until the point the cops stood outside and refused to let others go in. After that point, those children and teachers had a 100% chance at death. It went from being "Maybe those kids and teachers will live or maybe they will die" to just death.

    This is why I state those officers(all the way from the people on the ground to the COs that told them not to go in) should be accessories to each of the deaths of those that died.

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Any cop, and firefighter or anyone else that says they aren't scared going into a dangerous situation, they are insane. However, being afraid isn't an excuse to not do what is needed. Those cops that were afraid to get shot sealed the fates of those children and teachers. Those children and teachers had a greater then 0% chance at survival up until the point the cops stood outside and refused to let others go in. After that point, those children and teachers had a 100% chance at death. It went from being "Maybe those kids and teachers will live or maybe they will die" to just death.

    This is why I state those officers(all the way from the people on the ground to the COs that told them not to go in) should be accessories to each of the deaths of those that died.
    Ultimately, you cannot criminally charge someone for being afraid for their lives. You can have disciplinary action going in, but criminal charges? No, human rights stand against that. Nobody on this planet is a criminal because they refuse to potentially sacrifice themselves. What you need to do is prove that they had no fear for their lives and thus are guilty of criminal negligience. You'd have to prove that. Given that the death toll is so high, chances are you'll have the mother of all hard cases to make that proof.

    Apart from that, accessory means they have shared the murderer's intention (or at least willingly accept it) to cause death. Which - without even talking to them - is very, very, very unlikely.

    I get that you're outraged, but going the other extreme of insanity is not the right play.
    Last edited by Slant; 2022-05-29 at 09:11 PM.
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  12. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Ultimately, you cannot criminally charge someone for being afraid for their lives. You can have disciplinary action going in, but criminal charges? No, human rights stand against that. Nobody on this planet is a criminal because they refuse to potentially sacrifice themselves. What you need to do is prove that they had no fear for their lives and thus are guilty of criminal negligience. You'd have to prove that. Given that the death toll is so high, chances are you'll have the mother of all hard cases to make that proof.

    Apart from that, accessory means they have shared the murderer's intention (or at least willingly accept it) to cause death. Which - without even talking to them - is very, very, very unlikely.

    I get that you're outraged, but going the other extreme of insanity is not the right play.
    Actually, you can be criminally charged for being afraid for your life. A soldier during wartime, if they refuse to go out on patrol or in general refuse an order because they are afraid to be shot will be criminally charged for neglection of duty. If it results in a death of a fellow soldier, they can be put to death.

  13. #693
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Actually, you can be criminally charged for being afraid for your life. A soldier during wartime, if they refuse to go out on patrol or in general refuse an order because they are afraid to be shot will be criminally charged for neglection of duty. If it results in a death of a fellow soldier, they can be put to death.
    But that's a court-martial, not a civilian criminal trial. There's no equivalent for law enforcement.


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  14. #694
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Ultimately, you cannot criminally charge someone for being afraid for their lives. You can have disciplinary action going in, but criminal charges? No, human rights stand against that.
    The criminal charges would, at a minimum, come if for the assaulting of parents trying to save their children, and their actions taken to prevent stopping the shooter, allowing the shooter as much time as he wished to finish his rampage, which has them acting as accessories to that crime, taking specific actions to allow the primary criminal the freedom to commit their crimes.

    Nobody's going to charge an officer who panics and starts hyperventilating and can't make themselves go into that kind of situation. That's not what this situation was, and pretending otherwise is wildly unreasonable.

    Apart from that, accessory means they have shared the murderer's intention (or at least willingly accept it) to cause death. Which - without even talking to them - is very, very, very unlikely.
    Again, preventing people from stopping the shooter, and refusing to do so themselves even though their training and standards required them to, demonstrates exactly that. It's pretty analogous to serving as a lookout while others engage in robbery; you're not in there, doing the robbing, but you're making sure nobody stops the robbers.

    Nor do accessory charges require that you participated in the planning of the crime. That's where accessory after the fact often comes in, where someone completely uninvolved with the crime a family member committed nevertheless helps them try and escape justice, for instance.

    The officers here actively kept people from stopping the shooter as the shooter continued their shooting rampage, making no effort to stop him. They weren't passive bystanders who just couldn't bring themselves to do their duty, they were actively defending the shooter.


  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    What the actual fuck? It's like a bad joke: "How many cops does it take to get a kid out of a window?" There's literally 14 in that first picture...

    These pictures raise so many questions for me.

    (Not that there weren't still lots of unanswered questions already, of course.)
    Yeah, I don't know, they had to wait for another group to come and save them apparently. Even though this past year, they got a grant to buy level 4 body armor, armor that stops rifle rounds. So, either they didn't buy the armor, and pocketed the money, or they did and are too chicken shit to do it. Even with their own "Uvalde SWAT team".

    Even the right leaning Murdoch owned New York Post is asking if Uvalde's SWAT team responded to the shooting, since they have their own SWAT team for such a small jurisdiction. https://nypost.com/2022/05/28/unclea...hool-shooting/

    Even some of the elected officials were dumbfounded to find out they have a SWAT team that didn't show up, and from what I understand, Border Patrol was the one that went in and confronted and killed the kid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    To be absolutely fair, in a situation such as this forming an orderly and efficient plan on the fly can be pretty hard. Everyone is super stressed and panicked, kids are involved and running around, and I kinda doubt cops have extensive training for such crisis situations. I'm not overly surprised that they'd do stuff like this.

    This is not an all-encompassing excuse however, clearly the entire thing was grossly mismanaged by the police. Even if stupid stuff like some guy being on Snapchat isn't true it remains shocking that so many law enforcement officers were on the scene yet did everything but stop the killer.

    Worst part is, they'll likely use that to lobby for increased funding- "well things woulda gone better if we had more moneyz". Which instead of using for training they'll likely throw at more guns and military equipment that they're both untrained in and too chickenshit to actually use.
    And just like when I showed Phaelix here, Uvalde has a SWAT team apparently, a SWAT team that never showed up, people that are trained in hostage situations and active shooters, they even show them training in some sort of building, could have been a school. https://nypost.com/2022/05/28/unclea...hool-shooting/

    Even the elected officials of Uvalde are saying they had no idea they had a SWAT team, because there is no evidence they showed up at this particular event.

  16. #696
    Sounds like some embezzling shenanigans going on.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  17. #697
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    So the new talking point is to blame the teacher who left the door unlocked instead of the shooter. This is why we'll never get anywhere and shit like this will continue. It's everyone else's fault but the person with the gun who kills people.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    So the new talking point is to blame the teacher who left the door unlocked instead of the shooter. This is why we'll never get anywhere and shit like this will continue. It's everyone else's fault but the person with the gun who kills people.
    Door control is the most important issue of our day. DOOR CONTROL.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://twitter.com/amanbatheja/stat...98024305770497


  19. #699
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    If the gunman had no more ammo n the cops knew about it, they would have gone in n shoot him down with 800 bullets, prob take down some kids as well, then charge the town for 40 000 extra bullets.

  20. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    If the gunman had no more ammo n the cops knew about it, they would have gone in n shoot him down with 800 bullets
    I'm not sure how serious this post was, but while I was reading articles I believe I saw the Border Patrol did shoot him 27 times. Meaning, even if you thought you were being sarcastic, you weren't.

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