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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I recall your discussions in the other thread on this related topic - and you did make some good points. But we're beyond all that now. The US is the only country that suffers from constant and continuous mass shootings. It needs to end. Getting rid of the 2A and most/all guns will do that.

    And nothing else, no other "side argument" or "alternate point" matters anymore.
    You know this will never happen Cubby. We saw how banning alcohol and drugs has worked in this country how do you realistically propose stopping these stats without an even bigger blood bath then we already have:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-2...064021125.html
    America has 20 million AR-15 style rifles in circulation, and more guns than people in the country
    There are 20 million AR-style weapons in circulation in the US, according to the NSSF.

    They're part of a total 393 million guns owned by US civilians, more than the American population.

    Debate on gun ownership has reignited after a massacre at an elementary school in Texas last week.

    Around 19.8 million AR-15 style rifles are in circulation in the US, a nationwide tally that's surged from around 8.5 million since a federal assault weapons ban expired in 2004.

    The more recent estimate comes from a November 2020 statement by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. In the statement, its President and CEO Joseph Bartozzi called the AR-15 the "most popular rifle sold in America" and a "commonly-owned firearm."

    The debate over gun ownership and the public sale of AR-15-style weapons has intensified after the killing of 19 children and two adults in an elementary school shooting last week in Uvalde, Texas.

    The gunman carried an AR-15 variant during the attack, and the semi-automatic weapon type has been used in other high-profile shootings and incidents, such as the massacre in Buffalo and in the case of Kyle Rittenhouse, who was acquitted in November after fatally shooting two people and injuring a third.

    Statistics show that the number of AR-15s owned by the American public has increased dramatically in the last two decades.

    There were around 8.5 million AR-platform rifles in circulation in the US before 1994, when the weapons were prohibited under a federal assault weapons ban, per the Associated Press.

    The bill, signed by then-President Bill Clinton, only applied to assault weapons manufactured after the law was enacted.

    During the 10-year ban, many AR-style weapons were still legally used because they could be heavily modified so they wouldn't fall under the bill, and the number of such rifles in circulation stayed the same, according to the AP.

    After the ban expired in 2004, the net import and manufacturing of AR-15 style weapons jumped from 314,000 that year to more than 1 million in 2009, according to the latest firearms production report by the NSSF.

    The production rate has consistently stayed above 1 million per year since 2012, and surpassed 2.2 million rifles per year in 2013 and 2016.

    An average of 4.14 million guns were manufactured every year between 1990 and 1999. And an average of 3.7 million were manufactured annually between 2000 and 2009, according to the 2021 Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives report by the Department of Justice. That annual average jumped to 8.57 million per year from 2010 to 2019, according to the ATF.

    US consumers own around 393 million firearms, both legal and illegal, according to 2018 data from the Small Arms Survey, a Swiss-based project from the Geneva Graduate Institute. That means there are more guns than people in the US.

    Of that total, around 741,000 are fully automatic machine guns registered in the US, up from almost 457,000 in 2010, per ATF reports.

    A November 2020 Gallup poll found that 44% of Americans said they live in households with guns. That would mean that of the 122 million households in the US, the hundreds of millions of firearms owned by Americans are spread among 53.7 million households.

  2. #782
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    You know this will never happen Cubby. We saw how banning alcohol and drugs has worked in this country how do you realistically propose stopping these stats without an even bigger blood bath then we already have:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-2...064021125.html
    America has 20 million AR-15 style rifles in circulation, and more guns than people in the country
    But guns are not alcohol and drugs, there are so many countries that have gun bans but not on alcohol and drugs. Those categories are diseases that need to be treated not criminalized countries that treat them as such have seen great success. Are you saying gun owners have a disease?

  3. #783
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    You know this will never happen Cubby. We saw how banning alcohol and drugs has worked in this country how do you realistically propose stopping these stats without an even bigger blood bath then we already have:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-2...064021125.html
    America has 20 million AR-15 style rifles in circulation, and more guns than people in the country
    I know it won't, but it's only because gun advocates care more about the 2A and guns than they do children's lives. And if they won't do the right thing, I'll keep banging this drum.

    To be clear - it's not banning ALL guns, it's taking draconian measures to drastically reduce the number and kinds of guns. Essentially similar to how the rest of the entire civilized world does it.

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    But guns are not alcohol and drugs, there are so many countries that have gun bans but not on alcohol and drugs. Those categories are diseases that need to be treated not criminalized countries that treat them as such have seen great success. Are you saying gun owners have a disease?
    Nope I am saying outlawing things that are extremely common, and that vast parts of the country likes in America has not done well. I would say it would be an impossibility in America to ban and get rid of all firearms, especially with 3d printers becoming more common.

  5. #785
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Nope I am saying outlawing things that are extremely common, and that vast parts of the country likes in America has not done well. I would say it would be an impossibility in America to ban and get rid of all firearms, especially with 3d printers becoming more common.
    I agree - along with all the political and legal maneuvering, it would also take a federalized national guard to coordinate the effort. And even then it might literally not be possible. But it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not to swing this conversation around to full topic, but are we still hearing that the fucking dipshit chief of police waited to go in?

  6. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Not to swing this conversation around to full topic, but are we still hearing that the fucking dipshit chief of police waited to go in?
    Filtering through articles from the past 24 hours and it still appears so.
    https://www.wdsu.com/article/uvalde-...dates/40127473
    Ramos was still inside at 12:10 p.m. when the first U.S. Marshals Service deputies arrived. They had raced to the school from nearly 70 miles away in the border town of Del Rio, the agency said in a tweet Friday.

    But the commander inside the building — the school district's police chief, Pete Arredondo — decided the group should wait to confront the gunman, on the belief that the scene was no longer an active attack, McCraw said.

    The crisis came to an end at 12:50 after officers used keys from a janitor to open the classroom door, entered the room and shot and killed Ramos, he said.

    Arredondo couldn't immediately be reached for comment Friday. No one answered the door at his home and he didn't reply to a phone message left at the district's police headquarters.
    Edit: Typed in his name and got this from CNN. https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2022/0...do-tsr-vpx.cnn
    Uvalde School District Police Chief Pedro Arredondo will not be sworn into the city council seat he won in May. CNN's Nick Watt reports on the criticism Chief Arredondo is facing in the wake of the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School.
    Last edited by Deus Mortis; 2022-05-31 at 12:40 AM.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Nope I am saying outlawing things that are extremely common, and that vast parts of the country likes in America has not done well. I would say it would be an impossibility in America to ban and get rid of all firearms, especially with 3d printers becoming more common.
    But that's not true because other countries have done so and we have done so with several harmful substances and items. Drugs and alcohol are addictive guns are not people aren't going into withdrawals because they haven't shot their gun today. Most people cannot work their computers properly let alone a 3d printer, we know bans work because billionaires aren't buying nukes nor can I get a fully armed tank.

  8. #788
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Filtering through articles from the past 24 hours and it still appears so.
    https://www.wdsu.com/article/uvalde-...dates/40127473
    Ramos was still inside at 12:10 p.m. when the first U.S. Marshals Service deputies arrived. They had raced to the school from nearly 70 miles away in the border town of Del Rio, the agency said in a tweet Friday.

    But the commander inside the building — the school district's police chief, Pete Arredondo — decided the group should wait to confront the gunman, on the belief that the scene was no longer an active attack, McCraw said.

    The crisis came to an end at 12:50 after officers used keys from a janitor to open the classroom door, entered the room and shot and killed Ramos, he said.

    Arredondo couldn't immediately be reached for comment Friday. No one answered the door at his home and he didn't reply to a phone message left at the district's police headquarters.
    Edit: Typed in his name and got this from CNN. https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2022/0...do-tsr-vpx.cnn
    Uvalde School District Police Chief Pedro Arredondo will not be sworn into the city council seat he won in May. CNN's Nick Watt reports on the criticism Chief Arredondo is facing in the wake of the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School.
    Unless that time-frame and fact-base change, I sincerely hope he spends the rest of a long life in misery. He won't see jail time for this, even though he deserves it (assuming the above stays accurate). For once perhaps the evil of social media will be of some minor use.

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    But that's not true because other countries have done so and we have done so with several harmful substances and items. Drugs and alcohol are addictive guns are not people aren't going into withdrawals because they haven't shot their gun today. Most people cannot work their computers properly let alone a 3d printer, we know bans work because billionaires aren't buying nukes nor can I get a fully armed tank.
    From my couple mins of googling it appears you can actually get a fully armed tank in some US states, but it requires a shit ton of paperwork, a need for a vast amount of money, and passing what is most likely a metric ton of background checks.
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Unless that time-frame and fact-base change, I sincerely hope he spends the rest of a long life in misery. He won't see jail time for this, even though he deserves it (assuming the above stays accurate). For once perhaps the evil of social media will be of some minor use.
    Agreed, him being a cowered and holding back other people will follow him forever.

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    From my couple mins of googling it appears you can actually get a fully armed tank in some US states, but it requires a shit ton of paperwork, a need for a vast amount of money, and passing what is most likely a metric ton of background checks.
    First of all not surprised guess I had too high of standards for my country and the second you missed the point. The second amendment doesn't mean you are allowed to have any weapon you want without restrictions. I don't think banning guns is realistic nor do I want it but strict regulations and oversight is needed. The current system in the US is ad hoc from state to state and mostly a bad joke.

  11. #791
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    First of all not surprised guess I had too high of standards for my country and the second you missed the point. The second amendment doesn't mean you are allowed to have any weapon you want without restrictions. I don't think banning guns is realistic nor do I want it but strict regulations and oversight is needed. The current system in the US is ad hoc from state to state and mostly a bad joke.
    Agreed. The best analogy is drivers license and automobiles. Set up the exact same kind of education, required training, registration, and insurance requirement. It would solve a large portion of the issues.

    But that's after we ban everything outside single shot hunting rifles and pistols (not sure why we actually need those, might have to go).

    (in before the gun advocates argue with me about "single shot")

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    You think murderous fucks care at the end of the day?
    Yes.

    The AR15 has been turned into a both a figurative and a literal cult symbol in the USA.

    Yahoos have imbued that particular firearm design with importance far above and beyond it's functional characteristics.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  13. #793
    @PhaelixWW
    So reading through this thread I have to ask, what do YOU think should be done to decrease gun violence in the US?

  14. #794
    While it is entirely unsurprising that discussion over any shooting turns quickly to gun control, we have a dedicated thread for that.

  15. #795

  16. #796
    But something something good guys with guns.

  17. #797
    The only real silver lining I'm seeing is that it's making a lot of the "thin blue line" crowd start to question some of their fundamental beliefs about law enforcement.

  18. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    The only real silver lining I'm seeing is that it's making a lot of the "thin blue line" crowd start to question some of their fundamental beliefs about law enforcement.
    no, it's convincing liberals to rethink their positions on the cops. who knows, maybe they won't blame the Democrat's loses in the future on BLM protesters. that'll be an improvement.

  19. #799
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    Uvalde police, school district no longer cooperating with Texas probe of shooting
    [quote]The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary School and the state's review of the law enforcement response, multiple law enforcement sources tell ABC News.

    According to sources, the decision to stop cooperating occurred soon after the director of DPS, Col. Steven McCraw, held a news conference Friday during which he said the delayed police entry into the classroom was "the wrong decision" and contrary to protocol.

    Maybe that coward of a police chief could see actual jail time.

  20. #800
    Seeing this doing the rounds. If it's legit then like...holy shit what the fuck? This is...legal?

    Also, hilarious that once again once cops are afraid they may be accountable for their fuckups they go full turtle mode and just try to nope outta the situation. I wish I could get taxpayer dollars to pay my salary to not do my job when I'm needed most, and then have my employer tell investigators looking into why I may not have done my job to fuck off.

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