Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Midterm Voter]

Sorry, but people claiming that they "need ARs to hunt hogs, prairie dogs, coyotes."

1. Are lying.
2. They just want to cosplay as soldiers and mangle stuff with bullets.
3. Have small penis syndrome.

Change my mind! /s

[downnola]

You keep repeating the same innate nonsense, you're a vapid object. Even though it might seem paradoxical, if you want to achieve anything you have to put your skin in the game and act. And despite the fact that most of your success depends entirely on chance, if you don't act you don't achieve anything. You can keep screaming republicans do bad things. but as long as you do not act, you are enabling their bad behavior. .The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

He's repeating himself because you still haven't gotten it through your thick fucking skull that school shootings like this won't stop happening until AR-15s, and guns in general, are harder for any person with cash or credit to buy with little to no oversight. That doesn't happen without political action, which you seem to dismiss with vague and empty platitudes as if there's some other magical fucking way to keep tactical rifles out of radicalized and/or unhinged shooter's hands.

There's no defeatism or a desire for inaction from us when we point out the very real roadblocks to gun regulation thanks to Republicans at every level of government. New York passes stricter gun laws every single time there's a school shooting while Republicans are trying to overturn NY's conceal carry ban by a Republican stacked Supreme Court. Every year Republican-led states loosen their gun laws to absurdity while the momentum to pass even the slightest restrictions on the sale of guns and high-capacity magazines are gridlocked by the Senate, an institution implemented by the founders as a way to circumvent democratic action itself. Acknowledging all of this is not an admission of apathy or an argument that nothing can be done. Nobody who has responded to your drivel in this thread so far has said anything of the sort. It's just mind-boggling that anyone would have the audacity to say something so ridiculously stupid in a thread like this.

But then again, there are only two types of people who are silly enough to barge into a thread about a school massacre and act like anyone but Republicans and gun nuts are to blame for the constant shootings like this: 1) political hipsters who think vomiting out hot takes is a measure of their own intelligence and 2) clueless people, who instead of putting in an effort to understand a topic before arrogantly spouting off about it, would rather come off as fair-minded and politically neutral about a serious political problem. I think your platitude-filled posts are an example of a little of column A and a little of column B with a strong dash of attention-seeking behavior. They add nothing to the thread whatsoever but a derailment for your own self-centered enjoyment.

But hey, I could be wrong and your heart is in the right place. Maybe you just mistakenly thought it was a good idea to scold the people who have to pay the price (and have paid the price) for this senseless violence because you think you know their broken country better than they do. Well, I'm here to tell you that you don't. It wasn't a good idea and you just look like a massive tool instead.

[Mihalik]

bunch of horseshit.

Lie after lie after lie.

Each debunked in seconds, just for your ilk to instantly come up with some other lie.

Do you ever get tired of being a dishonest piece of ...?

Because you are fully aware of the fact that you're lying all the time. How do you wake up in the morning, look into the mirror and be ok with who you are as a person?

[PhaelixWW]

Shame on you, in all aspects. You don't understand the word disingenuous, clearly. And if you do, and are just using it purposefully incorrectly, well, that's the ultimate irony. So which is it? Ignorant or hypocritical? Your choice, and either way, you lose.

But go on with your vitriol. I'll go ahead and post that PM you sent. S

hame indeed.

So now we have not just another ad hominem and deflection, but also a false dichotomy and... what, a threat?

Just doubling down on the lack of class, eh? Sad.

[gondrin]

So you think that Joe Biden's idea of home defense using a shotgun is invalid. By your logic all shotguns are not allowed either. You also have to make new laws outlawing antique weapons to be owned. There are several semi automatic weapons that are antiques and not registered.

You obviously don't hunt very often either. Probably never had a neighbor ask for help with a feral hog infestation. But hey, why let reality ruin your plans for authoritarian control of a population.

Any life taken in a school shooting is too many, but does anyone know an actual count of mass shooting deaths? Think it's like 170 in the last 29 years. Reactionary moral outrage without real solutions happens every time there is a shooting of any kind...except in inner cities. Then there is no outrage at all.

I'll be real blunt here. Unless you live in specific areas in the country, the VAST majority of people will not run into any animals that will cause harm to them. While feral hogs are a problem for a very small part of the country, that doesn't mean it matters elsewhere.

As far as inner city gun crime, especially gang crime, it has been an issue for a long time that people have brought up for nearly 40 years. Multiple laws have been passed in said cities(like Stop and Frisk laws in New York City). Ironically, those laws are being overturned BECAUSE the same people complaining about inner city gang crime don't want gun control laws in the first place.

The only time I will ever agree with outright bans for firearms is apartment buildings or dwellings that are connected to each other because, unless you have an extremely small round or other projectiles that don't go through walls, your chance of killing a neighbor goes way up. I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but under a stressful situation, the VAST VAST majority of people will miss far more then they hit in the head of the moment. Especially a target that is moving around.

Fun Fact. Putting fake rounds in a gun that just makes the sound will cause most people to run away and never try again while NOT putting others in harms way.

[P for Pancetta]

He's repeating himself because you still haven't gotten it through your thick fucking skull that school shootings like this won't stop happening until AR-15s, and guns in general, are harder for any person with cash or credit to buy with little to no oversight. That doesn't happen without political action, which you seem to dismiss with vague and empty platitudes as if there's some other magical fucking way to keep tactical rifles out of radicalized and/or unhinged shooter's hands.

And this shit excuse of yours isn't an empty platitude? I'm not talking about magic, I'm talking about action. Meaning you moving your ass out of your chair and going places. It might sound vague, but that's purposeful since there are hundreds of different things you could do. Yet for some reason you "good guys" are willfully blind to all this and keep on pointing the finger while people get murdered.

There's no defeatism or a desire for inaction from us when we point out the very real roadblocks to gun regulation thanks to Republicans at every level of government. New York passes stricter gun laws every single time there's a school shooting while Republicans are trying to overturn NY's conceal carry ban by a Republican stacked Supreme Court. Every year Republican-led states loosen their gun laws to absurdity while the momentum to pass even the slightest restrictions on the sale of guns and high-capacity magazines are gridlocked by the Senate, an institution implemented by the founders as a way to circumvent democratic action itself. Acknowledging all of this is not an admission of apathy or an argument that nothing can be done. Nobody who has responded to your drivel in this thread so far has said anything of the sort. It's just mind-boggling that anyone would have the audacity to say something so ridiculously stupid in a thread like this.

While Gun regulation would probably be the most impactful action at this point. It isn't the only solution or angle you could take, yet you are completely blind to anything else then gun-control. you don't try, you don't think, you don't act.

But then again, there are only two types of people who are silly enough to barge into a thread about a school massacre and act like anyone but Republicans and gun nuts are to blame for the constant shootings like this: 1) political hipsters who think vomiting out hot takes is a measure of their own intelligence and 2) clueless people, who instead of putting in an effort to understand a topic before arrogantly spouting off about it, would rather come off as fair-minded and politically neutral about a serious political problem. I think your platitude-filled posts are an example of a little of column A and a little of column B with a strong dash of attention-seeking behavior. They add nothing to the thread whatsoever but a derailment for your own self-centered enjoyment.

The world isn't that black and white. The irony of this comment is beautiful though. How can we talk about serious political topics if the "good guys" are living with their head up their ass? If anyone doesn't understand this problem it's Americans, what other proof do you need then decades of not being able to solve this relatively simple problem.

But hey, I could be wrong and your heart is in the right place. Maybe you just mistakenly thought it was a good idea to scold the people who have to pay the price (and have paid the price) for this senseless violence because you think you know their broken country better than they do. Well, I'm here to tell you that you don't. It wasn't a good idea and you just look like a massive tool instead.

I don't care what you think about me, the reason you care about me is because what I say is true, and it hurts.

Going to stop replying to these kinds of posts now, if you want a reply you need to come up with arguments instead of weak excuses and fallacies.

[Shadowferal]

Going to stop replying to these kinds of posts now, if you want a reply you need to come up with arguments instead of weak excuses and fallacies.

You mean you're running away. Just like a libertarian full of shitty platitudes that mean nothing. And when it comes to details, you reveal you have nothing because you don't know anything.

[Poopymonster]

It's likely through the district, so it's based on whatever rate the district/union negotiate for. Honestly I don't know if it's even legal to jack up rates following something like a mass shooting.

Should be a workman's comp issue. He was injured on the job.

- - - Updated - - -

I haven't looked into this at all, but it's my understanding public-school teachers have government insurance.

Of course I lied. I did look into it. Texas teachers get health insurance.

Now, maybe it's shitty insurance or there's an ugly copay or whatever. But I don't think their insurance will go up. It's possible the taxpayers will have to pay more when the state teacher insurer says "these fuckers are getting shot, they're higher risk, we're raising your prices".

That teacher should be fine in terms of direct costs. Should. This is still the US health care system after all. But I don't see any reason offhand they'd need to pay a bunch more because of this.

They "could" carry guns as part of their job (Let's reflect on how violently American that sounds), even if they don't they now are in a high risk job. Prices are gonna skyrocket. Not this year, maybe next year though. Depending on how often we're gonna sacrifice children at the altar of ammosexuality they might do it asap.

Not to mention the schools insurance itself is gonna gonna go through the roof.

[Nymrohd]

They "could" carry guns as part of their job (Let's reflect on how violently American that sounds), even if they don't they now are in a high risk job. Prices are gonna skyrocket. Not this year, maybe next year though. Depending on how often we're gonna sacrifice children at the altar of ammosexuality they might do it asap.

While school shootings are definitely a statistically significant abnormality for the US (mostly because even adjusted per capita they just don't match the numbers for anywhere else), I'd be unsure that they affect teacher mortality and chance of injury at a statistically significant level so as to alter actuarial tables. I don't think insurance can justify a hike without that?

[downnola]

While Gun regulation would probably be the most impactful action at this point. It isn't the only solution or angle you could take, yet you are completely blind to anything else then gun-control. you don't try, you don't think, you don't act.

This sentence here demonstrates how full of shit you are. If you're not talking about the most impactful action after an elementary school massacre then you're not serious about solving the problem, are you? Your calls to action appear to be about as useless as placing police inside schools (who never stop these massacres) or blaming the shootings on mental health (an example of what a real excuse is, btw). Maybe if we put god and "traditional values" back in the classroom people won't grow up to be violent killers! Maybe we should ban violent video games and arm teachers? Who knows though, I'm just taking random shots in the dark here because you haven't actually suggested any real solutions aside from:

You could get involved in politics for one.

Like campaigning for and voting for people who actually pass reforms?

Or try to educate people(many many different ways of doing this)

Yes, there are many ways to do this including discussions on an internet message board. Curious though how you accuse us of not doing anything and wasting our time because we're discussing the topic here with you and others.

or realize that guns are only a part of the problem and you could try to focus on the other problems that go with the issue like mental health etc.

The United States has this problem because it has the loosest access to guns in the world. So no, guns actually are the problem, plain and simple. Improving mental health in this country is important, but you've gone ahead and made an excuse for this gun violence and recommended a weak, half-measure in the same sentence. But we're the ones who don't want to address the problem, yeah? No, some of us are trying to address the problem in the best way possible instead of suggesting half-measures, shifting blame, and making excuses for the ones responsible for it all.

[Flarelaine]

Because of course it's not criminal to simply not do your job as a cop, the DOJ investigation won't be criminal.

Complicated. Obviously, everyone wants cops to do something other than munching doughnuts, but cops who feel obligated to charge in with guns blazing simply to keep their jobs might be even more trouble. They are trigger-happy enough as it is.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Meh! Just as I wouldn't condemn the cop that didn't go into the school during the parkland shooting, I am not going to hang these cops by the same line. They weren't exactly the same in terms of what kind of tools they had to deal with the situation.

The fact is I personally think this is a perfect example of what has been said for a long time and not really understood. The COPS have NO obligation to put their lives in jeopardy to save ANYONE.

The hilariously ironic bullshit is hat all the bootlickers and back the blue hypocrites are the very ones either still calling everyone of these guys fucking hero's an defending them or outraged that the blue isn't obligated to do shit. And all the OVERFUNDING in the world isn't going to change that.

Arm the teachers or pay armed security guards. Honestly as for the school shootings, I am pretty sure a majority of them would stop if the P.O.S who do them typically got one between the eyes before they even got one off.

Hell my guess is armed security is likely going to be the next step. It's a super booming business right now.

[Flarelaine]

The gun control discussion is this way >>>.

[Breccia]

They weren't exactly the same in terms of what kind of tools they had to deal with the situation.

There's a lot of discussion that could be held on this topic, probably in another thread, but this part here is something I think everyone accepts as fact. The Texas school district police were very likely not wearing armor at the time, or more precisely, not wearing body armor that would have stopped an AR-15 round at urban shooting range (it's not like the shooter was firing at the school from two blocks away). I took a look around and found nothing, so I'll go with the assumption they were carrying standard police weaponry of a sidearm, taser, and pepper spray. Perhaps they had shotguns in their truck, cops or not this was Texas.

But all of that is secondary to what we've seen about them not having a working radio and not getting 911 calls. It wouldn't matter if they had SWAT gear and RPGs if they didn't know there was a shooter or where he was!

We might disagree on the police's ethical responsibilities when they willingly accept a job guarding a school district and someone comes to that school district to commit a bunch of murders. But I don't think we disagree that Texas, and America in general, has intentionally put itself in a situation where the average American can easily become better armed than the police who are supposed to stop the average American from murdering people.

[Kathandira]

Meh! Just as I wouldn't condemn the cop that didn't go into the school during the parkland shooting, I am not going to hang these cops by the same line. They weren't exactly the same in terms of what kind of tools they had to deal with the situation.

The fact is I personally think this is a perfect example of what has been said for a long time and not really understood. The COPS have NO obligation to put their lives in jeopardy to save ANYONE.

The hilariously ironic bullshit is hat all the bootlickers and back the blue hypocrites are the very ones either still calling everyone of these guys fucking hero's an defending them or outraged that the blue isn't obligated to do shit. And all the OVERFUNDING in the world isn't going to change that.

Arm the teachers or pay armed security guards. Honestly as for the school shootings, I am pretty sure a majority of them would stop if the P.O.S who do them typically got one between the eyes before they even got one off.

Hell my guess is armed security is likely going to be the next step. It's a super booming business right now.

We had an officer in our high school back in 95'-99'. So having officers in school is not a new thing.

Funny part is though, there isn't much an officer can do if they are outnumbered. We had a group of kids tackle and beat the crap out of a cop in our school. They didn't have weapons, and didn't take the cops weapon. But left him there in enough pain where he wasn't getting up.

It was a county school, so there were kids from all types of areas. These ones were from less than desirable environments.

When people think about cops in school, they generally don't think about young kids who are in gangs, or just really aggressive. Cops in schools will not deter violence. The cops will be the first target before moving on to unarmed staff and students.

[Breccia]

Looks like I can refine my earlier statement.

A teacher wounded in a school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, has criticised police as "cowards" for delaying taking action while his pupils were killed.

In a harrowing interview with ABC News he said he told his students to pretend to be asleep during the shooting.

Eleven of them died when the gunman stalked his and an adjacent classroom for over an hour as police stood in the hall.

"You had a bulletproof vest. I had nothing," he said of the police.

I am going to give the teacher the benefit of the doubt. So the Texas school district police were wearing vests, then. They're free to publicly admit they were not...I doubt they will, even if it's true.

Speaking of which, does the Texas school martial system also give the armed teachers body armor? (checks Texas' rules) Wow, these are useless. Doesn't even say if the school martial system give them the gun they're allowed to use.

Body armor appears to be legal in Texas, unless you're a felon. I guess the teachers are expected to provide their own body armor? Wouldn't be the first thing a teacher was expected to provide with their own money. Did I mention Texas teachers are paid less than most? Yeah the cost of living might be lower, but things like guns and body armor don't typically have locally-set prices.

[Adam Jensen]

Looks like I can refine my earlier statement.



I am going to give the teacher the benefit of the doubt. So the Texas school district police were wearing vests, then. They're free to publicly admit they were not...I doubt they will, even if it's true.

Speaking of which, does the Texas school martial system also give the armed teachers body armor? (checks Texas' rules) Wow, these are useless. Doesn't even say if the school martial system give them the gun they're allowed to use.

Body armor appears to be legal in Texas, unless you're a felon. I guess the teachers are expected to provide their own body armor? Wouldn't be the first thing a teacher was expected to provide with their own money. Did I mention Texas teachers are paid less than most? Yeah the cost of living might be lower, but things like guns and body armor don't typically have locally-set prices.

If Republicans get their way and our "solution*" is to arm the teachers, you bet your ass teachers will be expected to provide their own body armor and weapons.

We already expect them to provide their own school supplies after all.

"What, actually pay the teachers? What is this? Socialist Canada?"

*arming the teachers has got to be the stupidest thing I've heard on a long time

[Endus]

"What, actually pay the teachers? What is this? Socialist Canada?"

*arming the teachers has got to be the stupidest thing I've heard on a long time

Difficulty; even in socialist Canada, teachers get paid for shit.

Not quite AS shit as the USA, but standards are also higher; minimum for Ontario is a Bachelor of Education, and that requires a prior BA/BSc for admission. Starting salary's like $50k/year, but minimum wage here's $15/hour, so like $31k/year. And that's in CAD, so it's like 20% less than that for the equivalent in USD.

[Adam Jensen]

Difficulty; even in socialist Canada, teachers get paid for shit.

Not quite AS shit as the USA, but standards are also higher; minimum for Ontario is a Bachelor of Education, and that requires a prior BA/BSc for admission. Starting salary's like $50k/year, but minimum wage here's $15/hour, so like $31k/year. And that's in CAD, so it's like 20% less than that for the equivalent in USD.

Never understood why they're paid so little when they have such a massive effect in our society and perform a very crucial job.

I guess it's not as flashy as paying Raytheon to engineer a fancy new bomb.

[Doctor Amadeus]

There's a lot of discussion that could be held on this topic, probably in another thread, but this part here is something I think everyone accepts as fact. The Texas school district police were very likely not wearing armor at the time, or more precisely, not wearing body armor that would have stopped an AR-15 round at urban shooting range (it's not like the shooter was firing at the school from two blocks away). I took a look around and found nothing, so I'll go with the assumption they were carrying standard police weaponry of a sidearm, taser, and pepper spray. Perhaps they had shotguns in their truck, cops or not this was Texas.

But all of that is secondary to what we've seen about them not having a working radio and not getting 911 calls. It wouldn't matter if they had SWAT gear and RPGs if they didn't know there was a shooter or where he was!

We might disagree on the police's ethical responsibilities when they willingly accept a job guarding a school district and someone comes to that school district to commit a bunch of murders. But I don't think we disagree that Texas, and America in general, has intentionally put itself in a situation where the average American can easily become better armed than the police who are supposed to stop the average American from murdering people.

I do not want to get infracted and it is not my intent to talk about gun control at all here.

However I did want to point out that I appreciate this break down here. And while I am extremely critical of the police response, I am never going to say what others should have done concerning grave risk when it wasn't me.

Going in there unprepared or ill equipped could have made a bad situation worse.

That said speaking only to the threat that was there was little too no chance of survival if struck. However while you can't out run a bullet this kind of weapon requires a finer skill set in general for aiming, meaning you can move out of line of site faster than the person adjust especially if you have the right weapon and gear and backup.

That said training isn't enough, it also takes experience dealing with a situation from a target that fires back at you with the intention of killing you. That's all I am going to address concerning what the police could have done.

Police are over funded and in this instance despite what anyone says they were fucking useless.

- - - Updated - - -

We had an officer in our high school back in 95'-99'. So having officers in school is not a new thing.

Funny part is though, there isn't much an officer can do if they are outnumbered. We had a group of kids tackle and beat the crap out of a cop in our school. They didn't have weapons, and didn't take the cops weapon. But left him there in enough pain where he wasn't getting up.

It was a county school, so there were kids from all types of areas. These ones were from less than desirable environments.

When people think about cops in school, they generally don't think about young kids who are in gangs, or just really aggressive. Cops in schools will not deter violence. The cops will be the first target before moving on to unarmed staff and students.

Yeah cops vs private security there are pros and cons to each, especially depending on the school, although I for sure see the points your made by your experience which mans I am aware you could be right.

The thing is though in context school shooters are NOT looking for blow back or any kind of resistance in fact none of these mass shooters typically do, if there is armed security or cops, most wont because by the time they show up they kill themselves or surrender.