Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Glorious Leader]

you know, if you really cared about moving forward on this issue, part of it is at the very least acknowledging your sides failings in the matter. but of course to conservatives personal responsibility is always someone else's problem, not your own. and more to the point once again instead of any attempt to actual do what you claim to want to do, all you're doing is bitching about people pointing out material reality to you. yeah NO FUCKING SHIT conservative voters have made the current climate we are dealing with, sorry if pointing that out triggers you so hard.

it's almost as if this is just another exercise in gaslighting the rest of us.

precisely. Since he refuses to support any actual policies that would in fact prevent future mass shootings or future shitty police behavior his statement is vacuous.

[Breccia]

Then your problem is using this thread to try to gauge opinions on both sides of the political aisle.

You mean, by using the actual cited lines actual cited politicians have said on the issue? That's not a problem, that's just paying attention.

Oh, you thought I was basing actual political action on what anonymous people say here. Thanks for that assumption, wake me when Abbott makes an account and maybe I'll start. Until then, no, also P.S. @Endus nailed it but you quoted me.

[Edge-]

https://www.chron.com/politics/artic...e-17228670.php

Next Republican scapegoat for the shooting:

There's been a noticeable breakdown of the family. There's been an erosion of faith and there's been a seismic drop in social interactions in large measure due to the overuse of these dang smartphones, and the proliferation of social media, which is probably better described as anti-social media

[Breccia]

"there's been a seismic drop in social interactions in large measure due to the overuse of these dang smartphones, and the proliferation of social media"

Well someone's an oxymoron.

Sadly, this isn't new. As I posted recently, Gov. Abbott has his govt working on a special investigation with five topics to look at. Social media is one of them. Again, he can't just switch that shit off, we've already seen his state take on "social media" and get curbstomped like Homelander vs. Omni-Man. At best, he could mandate smart phones be turned off in schools, which HAHAHAHA yeah good luck with that. Not that I disapprove, I just think it's 0% likely that a system of state schools recently rocked by a shooting is going to stop and frisk every student for their iPhone...seconds after mental health is given to every single student.

Also, don't think I missed the part about "erosion of faith". Bible-thumping is hardly new, but as always, "people don't go to church" is a grade-school code for "people don't go to our church". Let's drop 20% hard-line Muslims who visit mosque services weekly into a random Texas school, point out that "faith" isn't Constitutionally restricted, and see how quickly that tune changes.

[Endus]

https://www.chron.com/politics/artic...e-17228670.php

Next Republican scapegoat for the shooting:

Wait, are they arguing that "more social interaction = less social interaction"? Seriously?

[Captain N]

Wait, are they arguing that "more social interaction = less social interaction"? Seriously?

Blame everything but the gun. It's the Republican way!

[Endus]

Also, don't think I missed the part about "erosion of faith". Bible-thumping is hardly new, but as always, "people don't go to church" is a grade-school code for "people don't go to our church". Let's drop 20% hard-line Muslims who visit mosque services weekly into a random Texas school, point out that "faith" isn't Constitutionally restricted, and see how quickly that tune changes.

I've been an atheist-agnostic for about 25 years now. Moved away from my Anglican upbringing near the end of high school. Entering seminary was a consideration, and I took enough courses in religion for it to qualify as a minor in college. Doesn't come up much, here, because of the rules against religious discussion, but I'm pretty dang well-versed.

I moved away from that faith because of the church, not despite it. If my faith were to return, it would be to something otherthan Christianity, because I'm too well-read in the subject to rejoin that faith, and see too many questions no pastor or theologian has ever been able to satisfactorily answer. If anything, I'm more of an omnist; I think it's far more likely that every faith holds some kernels of truth (or Truth) than any one faith getting everything absolutely correct. This also suggests a God who's been hands-off since the Big Bang and is non-interventionist, which is functionally no different than "no God", hence why I typically identify as an atheist.

When shitbags like this blame things on people moving away from their churches, when those churches teach small-minded petty bigotries and perpetrate regular unthinking abuses upon their flocks and any and all outsiders, it demonstrates such colossal levels of ignorance and hubris. I've gotten into in-depth arguments with some of these types, on theological grounds, and just hit them with the absolute basics like the Problem of Evil, and they've had nothing but sputtering. I can give you a good three solutions to the Problem of Evil off the top of my head, and they aren't the only ones; that someone claims to be a devout Christian but can't even provide one? You don't study theology or even read the Bible. You're just a blind sheep for whatever hate-pastor you've chosen to side with.

Not all Christians, to be clear. Just the loud ones. All the above is just my personal deconstruction and path away from specific faith, and the only point I'm making is that it happened because of Bible study, not despite it.

Know what causes the "erosion of faith"? Abusive religious groups. You're the fuckin' problem, you abusive dingleberries. May all your children disavow you and leave you to die alone.

Hopefully the above falls far enough on the "not actually religious discussion" line to survive. I'm seriously not trying to open that can of worms, just establish my own baseline for perspective.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Yeah, let's focus on how to make schools safer, since that's the problem. Although school-shpptings are rare events, compared to mass shootings, and most gun homicides don't happen in schools.

How about we work on just making less mass shootings yeah? I realize that even thinking about the NRA losing gun sales makes you physicall ill. But lots of people die in mass shootings, and there's one common denominator among ALL of them. One single factor. And it isn't schools.

[D Luniz]

Bill Maher again proving he's still just a Republican who likes weed.

Maher's a fucking bigot and a moron, and he's not even a good comedian, which is why he's been hosting this kind of show for so long. Nobody should take any of his hot takes seriously, on any subject, ever. I used to watch his show for the panel debates, because you'd actually get multiple sides going at it openly and getting called out when they were being shits about something, but then he started platforming truly awful shitheads like Yiannopoulos and treating them with absolute kid gloves rather than his usual venom, for whatever goddamned reason.

Here's your hot tip; way more films and TV are made in Canada than you might think, and Canada largely enjoys exactly the same media content as Americans, the same violent Hollywood films Maher's ranting about. And still, vastly lower gun violence.

It's almost like that's not the cause and you'd have to be a giant fucking moron pushing a bullshit child-murdering agenda to claim otherwise.

plus Las Colinas (Dallas suburb) and Atlanta Georgia have been film studios for years

[Bakis]

Mass shootings, the unofficial national sport in the US. Cant touch it, an assault rifle over the counter is way to useful for hunting and home protection.

[Linkedblade]

How about we work on just making less mass shootings yeah? I realize that even thinking about the NRA losing gun sales makes you physicall ill. But lots of people die in mass shootings, and there's one common denominator among ALL of them. One single factor. And it isn't schools.

Yes, i agree, it's people with murderous intent

[Bakis]

Yes, i agree, it's people with murderous intent

If it was that simple how come no other equal country is anywhere near the rate of as the US?
Hell, you are more likely to die from a gun related death as a kid than other accidents (or as often is proven "accidents" aka crimes).

[PhaelixWW]

Hell, you are more likely to die from a gun related death as a kid than other accidents (or as often is proven "accidents" aka crimes).

That's not even remotely true.

[Nastard]

How about we work on just making less mass shootings yeah? I realize that even thinking about the NRA losing gun sales makes you physicall ill. But lots of people die in mass shootings, and there's one common denominator among ALL of them. One single factor. And it isn't schools.

Yeah, I don't get the mentality of "just make schools safer but keep all the guns." Many of these mass shooters pick schools because they're looking to hurt and rattle people to their core, and slaughtering innocent children is a good way to do that. For the sake of argument, if every school becomes impenetrable, will these mass shooters just decide to call it quits? Nah, they'll just have a change of venue to the pediatric ward of a hospital or a Chuck e Cheese. So then what's the solution, start installing armed guards in every public place? Sure, what could go wrong? It's not like our country has a problem with people going power crazy once they're allowed to use guns on the job.

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That's not even remotely true.

I haven't confirmed if it's true, but he's probably referring to the stats that gun related deaths surpassed auto deaths for people ages 1 to 19 thus making it the most common cause of death. Though he worded it weirdly and made it seem like it's a higher cause than all others combined, which definitely isn't true.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ids-than-cars/

[Linkedblade]

If it was that simple how come no other equal country is anywhere near the rate of as the US?
Hell, you are more likely to die from a gun related death as a kid than other accidents (or as often is proven "accidents" aka crimes).

Because the US has firearms, or more than other countries. I've never argued that wasn't true.

Yes, parents or adults should be charged if a restricted person gets ahold of their firearms, barring criminal acts like burglary.

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Yeah, I don't get the mentality of "just make schools safer but keep all the guns." Many of these mass shooters pick schools because they're looking to hurt and rattle people to their core, and slaughtering innocent children is a good way to do that. For the sake of argument, if every school becomes impenetrable, will these mass shooters just decide to call it quits? Nah, they'll just have a change of venue to the pediatric ward of a hospital or a Chuck e Cheese. So then what's the solution, start installing armed guards in every public place? Sure, what could go wrong? It's not like our country has a problem with people going power crazy once they're allowed to use guns on the job.

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I haven't confirmed if it's true, but he's probably referring to the stats that gun related deaths surpassed auto deaths for people ages 1 to 19 thus making it the most common cause of death. Though he worded it weirdly and made it seem like it's a higher cause than all others combined, which definitely isn't true.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ids-than-cars/

Yeah, I've said that quite a bit before as well. People are constantly conflating gun death with gun homicide. Gun deaths include lawful acts of self defense, accidents, and suicides. Not to mention that homicide and mass murder get conflated quite a bit as well in these discussions

[PhaelixWW]

I haven't confirmed if it's true, but he's probably referring to the stats that gun related deaths surpassed auto deaths for people ages 1 to 19 thus making it the most common cause of death. Though he worded it weirdly and made it seem like it's a higher cause than all others combined, which definitely isn't true.

He also very specifically stated "accidents", though, yes, the wording is weird.

Regardless, I still have a problem with the idea of calling adults "kids".

[tehdang]

Yeah, I don't get the mentality of "just make schools safer but keep all the guns."

There's over 300 million guns around. You'd have a better chance at going after not allowing people to "keep all their weed," because the war on drugs would seem highly effective compared to a war on guns.

I haven't confirmed if it's true, but he's probably referring to the stats that gun related deaths surpassed auto deaths for people ages 1 to 19 thus making it the most common cause of death.

It's also pretty weird to include suicide when comparing gun-related deaths to accidents (not involving guns).

[Bakis]

Because the US has firearms, or more than other countries. I've never argued that wasn't true.

Yes, parents or adults should be charged if a restricted person gets ahold of their firearms, barring criminal acts like burglary.

Still does not explain why there is a need for the elephant in the room, AR-15 rifles. So more guns sure, also the fact that there is next to no regulation on getting them in the sense that it is so easy to sidestep the few regulations in place.
More guns and apperently enough people that need assault rifles that they are fine with dead kids being on the highscore.

[Linkedblade]

Still does not explain why there is a need for the elephant in the room, AR-15 rifles. So more guns sure, also the fact that there is next to no regulation on getting them in the sense that it is so easy to sidestep the few regulations in place.
More guns and apperently enough people that need assault rifles that they are fine with dead kids being on the highscore.

The ar-15 is a very simple rifle, and is quite different from it's military relatives, like the M16 and M4. For one it's not a machine gun, or an assault rifle. It can be made into an "assault rifle," but that is dependent on the jurisdiction the person is in. The platform the attacker in Uvalde used was neither a machine gun or an assault rifle, as in Texas there is no assault weapon or assault rifle designation. For example in NJ, similarly in CA/NY/MA, an assault rifle is a semi-auto that takes a detachable magazine, and has any two of the following: a pistol grip, a bayonet lug, collapsible stock, threaded barrel, and/or a grenade launcher. Out of any of those "assault" features the only one that is remotely reckless would be a grenade launcher. The rest are just convenience options, less the bayonet lug, which how does attaching a knife to a gun more dangerous.

With all that said, there's nothing particularly special about the ar-15 and all of its variants from various manufacturers.

Saying "there is next to no regulation on getting them in the sense it is so easy to sidestep the few regulations" is complete nonsense.

You have to provide ID at purchase and you have to adhere to your states age restrictions.

We have a nationwide system for background checks, literally every state uses NICS or has their own equivalent. There's also a form that is filled in at every purchase with the purchaser and vendors information. If you buy a gun anywhere in the US there is proof you purchased it. There is no way around this. Any vendor, to protect their own livelihoods, will adhere to that. The application form includes everything about a person, including social security number

I'll admit that NICS is only an FBI criminal background check, so mental health may not be involved, depending on the state. Would a mental health check in Texas have solved what happened? Maybe. I don't know.

Suggesting we require background checks or a registration is meaningless because we already have those.

[Bakis]

The ar-15 is a very simple rifle, and is quite different from it's military relatives, like the M16 and M4. For one it's not a machine gun, or an assault rifle. It can be made into an "assault rifle," but that is dependent on the jurisdiction the person is in. The platform the attacker in Uvalde used was neither a machine gun or an assault rifle, as in Texas there is no assault weapon or assault rifle designation. For example in NJ, similarly in CA/NY/MA, an assault rifle is a semi-auto that takes a detachable magazine, and has any two of the following: a pistol grip, a bayonet lug, collapsible stock, threaded barrel, and/or a grenade launcher. Out of any of those "assault" features the only one that is remotely reckless would be a grenade launcher. The rest are just convenience options, less the bayonet lug, which how does attaching a knife to a gun more dangerous.

With all that said, there's nothing particularly special about the ar-15 and all of its variants from various manufacturers.

Saying "there is next to no regulation on getting them in the sense it is so easy to sidestep the few regulations" is complete nonsense.

You have to provide ID at purchase and you have to adhere to your states age restrictions.

We have a nationwide system for background checks, literally every state uses NICS or has their own equivalent. There's also a form that is filled in at every purchase with the purchaser and vendors information. If you buy a gun anywhere in the US there is proof you purchased it. There is no way around this. Any vendor, to protect their own livelihoods, will adhere to that. The application form includes everything about a person, including social security number

I'll admit that NICS is only an FBI criminal background check, so mental health may not be involved, depending on the state. Would a mental health check in Texas have solved what happened? Maybe. I don't know.

Suggesting we require background checks or a registration is meaningless because we already have those.

Jeeses christ. Dont try to pull shit like its not a true assault rifle. People should know that given the points you mention.
HOWEVER. The velocity and caliber still make the impact explode unlike a regular gun or rifle. Ask a surgeon.
Its designed and produced for war, there is no argument around it.
"there is a clip limit", "it cant be full auto", 2 mins on YouTube and both those issues are sorted.

Regarding the system, its rife with loopholes.