Page 10 of 94 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
12
20
60
... LastLast
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    That's an argument against publishing body counts, not names.
    Someone who wants to be the villain isn't going to be shamed out of being the villain, all it does is heighten the thrill of it even further. It's a game to them, and the best thing society can do is to strip away whatever it can to make that game less appealing to future shooters.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Someone who wants to be the villain isn't going to be shamed out of being the villain, all it does is heighten the thrill of it even further. It's a game to them, and the best thing society can do is to strip away whatever it can to make that game less appealing to future shooters.
    You don't name them to shame them. You do it so that guilt is correctly attributed and because the public have a right to know. The perpetrators know their actions will be breaking news all over the world. Their crimes will be still be reported, as they have to be, and their names will still be circulated regardless. It's naive to think that withholding publication of names will make any difference to anything.

  3. #183
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    36,799
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Identifying perpetrators ≠ fetishizing their crimes.
    Why does the general public need to know the name of a mass murderer who is dead? There's zero purpose.

    And these people will often do this for infamy. No, that's not a reason to not publish body count, because that person's name will still be attached to a mass murder. If the name is never published, they will not go in the history books and will be forgotten. The ideal outcome.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    You don't name them to shame them. You do it so that guilt is correctly attributed and because the public have a right to know.
    I'm not sure you know what that word means. Nothing in our laws state that the media must report the name of a mass shooter. The name is a matter of public record, but you'd have to go down to the local PD and ask for access to that record. If you want to know their name, go do the legwork. Nobody has any obligation to tell you their name.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Why should a perpetrator have their name divorced from the crime they committed? Not only are you arguing for people to be less informed but you're also arguing for less accountability for the perpetrator. Bizarre.
    Accountability exists in the legal system.

    Accountability is NOT the general public knowing.

    Mass shooters are worthy of our hate and judgment of them, but that's exactly what they get off on. They WANT to be infamous. They WANT their name all over the news. They're nobodies who have failed in life. Usually right wingers who kept spouting "if you work hard enough you'll be rich" and when they find that system has failed them, they want to go out with a bang.


    Let's not give them what they want, as it encourages more mass shootings.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  4. #184
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Gen-OT College of Shitposting
    Posts
    21,922
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    When Trump made the list of shitty country, he forgot to add the US. Shitty culture and shitty place to live.
    In Canada we had a saying that the U.S. was the richest 3rd world country on the planet.

  5. #185
    Bloodsail Admiral
    3+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    1,074
    I agree I think it's counter-productive to focus on the identity of the perpetrator in these cases. That's not where the attention should be focused for a variety of reasons.

    Guns will never be "taken away" in the US, that's simply not realistic. So sticking to realistic solutions there are 2 things that could help. The first would be to increase mental health funding and resources significantly. Some conservative states in recent years have actually slashed mental health funding to score political points. If people want to reduce drug abuse, which then leads to crime, and violence, and homelessness, then mental health funding needs to be a much higher priority. Help solve at least some of those issues before they become a tragedy.

    The second would be to close the loophole around guns for those under 18. Federally in the US you have the be 18+ to buy a gun. But in the majority of US states still today in 2022, it is completely legal for an adult to buy a rifle or shotgun and gift it to a child. The idea is based historically on parents that go hunting with their teenage children, which is common in many areas. In fact in the south it's not uncommon to get a rifle or shotgun as a 12th or 13th age birthday present. In light of these horrible events that have occurred far too often, that might be something to revisit. Even just this would be titanically difficult to pull-off in today's politics though.

  6. #186
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,910
    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    I stand by my post on the other shooting thread. Just make a psych evaluation mandatory before buying guns. Not full proof in any way, but it might prevent a few crazies slipping through the cracks.
    1> These people, with such few exceptions as to be irrelevant, are not mentally ill. They're violent, evil, hateful assholes. See also every white supremacist. See also every evangelical who attacks LGBT people or rights. See also Nazis, for that matter, historically. These are Venn diagrams that amount to a single circle. They are terrible people who seek to harm others for their own enjoyment. That's not "mental illness", it's just "being evil as fuck".

    2> Mental health checks amount to a "one free mass slaughter" ticket, anyway. Not a solution to any problem. It belongs in the same bin as "thoughts and prayers"; it's a way for people to feel like they're doing something while ensuring nothing changes, but they can pat themselves on the back for "helping" regardless.

    Also, increase the sentencing. Give mass murderers the death penalty by default regardless of state.
    There is literally no correlation that can be identified between severity of sentencing and any deterrent effect. Many of these shooters explicitly don't expect to survive their attacks in the first place, which makes it even less of a potential deterrent, here. Again; this would provide precisely zero meaningful change in the rate or severity of these attacks. Hell, it guarantees that any of these offenders who DON'T want to die will keep killing rather than surrendering to police.

    My preference would be lifelong torture, we gotta get medieval on these people. Let them think again before killing innocents. The civilized world will not react well to that, but acts like these do not deserve a civilized response.

    Problem solved.
    "The solution to people being evil, sadistic, abusive fucks is to also become evil, sadistic, abusive fucks, ourselves! That'll teach 'em!"

    Your attitude isn't meaningfully separable from that of the people who get radicalized into this shit.


  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    You don't name them to shame them. You do it so that guilt is correctly attributed and because the public have a right to know. The perpetrators know their actions will be breaking news all over the world. Their crimes will be still be reported, as they have to be, and their names will still be circulated regardless. It's naive to think that withholding publication of names will make any difference to anything.
    All police arrests are public information. This is to ensure that the government isn't able to secretly snatch up citizens without anyone knowing. The right for the public to know who gets arrested is a protection of the arrestee, in this case the mass-shooter.

    Then there is the first amendment. You are free to inquire about this person's name. You're free to create a massive documentary about his identity. Interview their friends if they have any. You're free to buy billboards and place their mugshot and name everywhere you can. You are free to recreate the entire event as a dramatized movie.

    You are free to do all of that. And by doing so, you will add value to this individual's act. You tickle their ego, you inflate their personality, and thereby you make it more appealing to other people who fantasize about this type of fame. Increasing the odds that for some of them it's that final perk that closes the deal.

  8. #188
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,910
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    Guns will never be "taken away" in the US, that's simply not realistic. So sticking to realistic solutions there are 2 things that could help.
    The thing is; it is realistic. Americans just don't wanna. And if the price they need to pay to continue owning and misusing weaponry is that innocent kids need to be regularly slaughtered (on basically a weekly basis at this point, on average), then that's a blood price Americans like yourself are perfectly willing to pay.

    That's why you don't want to have that conversation. Because you think the mass slaughters of children are more "realistic" than basic gun control like every other developed nation on the planet.

    The first would be to increase mental health funding and resources significantly.
    Seriously, it isn't a mental health crisis. It's a morality and extremism and cultural violence crisis. You may as well be shouting "thoughts and prayers" by talking about mental health, here.


  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is literally no correlation that can be identified between severity of sentencing and any deterrent effect. Many of these shooters explicitly don't expect to survive their attacks in the first place, which makes it even less of a potential deterrent, here. Again; this would provide precisely zero meaningful change in the rate or severity of these attacks. Hell, it guarantees that any of these offenders who DON'T want to die will keep killing rather than surrendering to police.
    The Parkland shooter tried to get an insanity plea by pretending he was hearing voices. Didn't work out but I wish he got what he wanted because spending a lifetime in a criminal asylum is hell, it's way worse than a lifetime in normal prison.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Your attitude isn't meaningfully separable from that of the people who get radicalized into this shit.
    You're talking to children with one-dimensional thinking here. I mean, for all we know, he might be the mass shooter of tomorrow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Why does the general public need to know the name of a mass murderer who is dead? There's zero purpose.
    If nothing else so everyone around him, his family, the one or two friends the sad fuck had, know they fucked up. And let everyone of THEIR friends know they fucked up, too.

    Yes, absolutely blame the parent. Don't give a shit if anyone thinks that's PC or not. Poor upbringing and even poorer education while having pretty much free access to guns... the fuck is a society based on idiocracy and violence supposed to look like? Yes, exactly like this. One mass shooting per week. That's exactly what a culture bred by violent culture and free gun access is supposed to look like.

    And god forbid you tell someone to stop insulting other people somewhere, it's immediately "Hey, we're all adults here... don't be a pussy." or "It's just ironic, don't freak out!" as if that sentence even made sense. Ironic != replacement word for "funny".

    No, not a pussy, but we can be civilised. Like actual adults. Not like big babies that think feeding on steroids and growing a terrorist beard is a sign of manhood.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    Guns will never be "taken away" in the US, that's simply not realistic.
    Agree. Here in the Philly area where gun homicide is an uncomfortable reality, the guns confiscated are rarely ever legit, with a percentage of them being ghost guns. There was even one individual that had a couple of 3d printers set up and running.

  12. #192
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    19,214
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I mean, it costs country, not the gun industry. And they pull the strings by financing politicians with money donations. Hence the power they have. That's the point.
    People dying en masses is an externality for Smith and Wesson and a cost they do not have to bare.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Why does the general public need to know the name of a mass murderer who is dead? There's zero purpose.

    And these people will often do this for infamy. No, that's not a reason to not publish body count, because that person's name will still be attached to a mass murder. If the name is never published, they will not go in the history books and will be forgotten. The ideal outcome.

    I'm not sure you know what that word means. Nothing in our laws state that the media must report the name of a mass shooter. The name is a matter of public record, but you'd have to go down to the local PD and ask for access to that record. If you want to know their name, go do the legwork. Nobody has any obligation to tell you their name.

    Accountability exists in the legal system.

    Accountability is NOT the general public knowing.

    Mass shooters are worthy of our hate and judgment of them, but that's exactly what they get off on. They WANT to be infamous. They WANT their name all over the news. They're nobodies who have failed in life. Usually right wingers who kept spouting "if you work hard enough you'll be rich" and when they find that system has failed them, they want to go out with a bang.

    Let's not give them what they want, as it encourages more mass shootings.
    Why does the public need to know the facts? Really? Listen to yourself, lol.

    When I say accountability, I mean the public knowing who is accountable. With no name, there is no-one to pin the crime on. When you know who it is, you know who's accountable. And the perpetrator of a hideous crime ought to be identified, because they should not be able to do what they do under the cover of anonymity. You can't hide their names in today's world, so asking people to visit a geographical location to get the info is naive and pointless, as the info will be global the moment it's made available. There's also the Streisand effect. Try to hide it and it just makes people more curious, and it actually increases the chances of innocent people being blamed.

    You don't like infamy, tough shit. It's a fact of life and infamous people have their place in the history books alongside the Marie Curies and Nelson Mandelas. Sure, the media doesn't need to go over the top with its analysing of every detail about a perpetrator's life, but withholding their identity from the public record? Unacceptable. People shouldn't argue to be less informed.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Seriously, it isn't a mental health crisis. It's a morality and extremism and cultural violence crisis. You may as well be shouting "thoughts and prayers" by talking about mental health, here.
    Not quite true. The Parkland shooter, for example, was receiving mental health care but lost treatment in the year before the shooting. I wouldn't say poor mental health care describes all shootings though.

    The US is, of course, a dumpster fire for mental health care. GOP politicians like to claim fixing mental health care would help but they do fuck all to make care available.
    The GOP solution appears to be maybe give them some pills, definitely let them buy a gun and then whine about religious freedom when called on their bullshit.

  15. #195
    Can someone please tell me what the point is of giving our cops apcs and military gear if they can't even stop one 18 year old from slaughtering a school when the cops where already on scene.

  16. #196


    Ah, with leaders like these... literally one solution again and again, the 'thoughts and prayers'.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    We need to arm the good school shooters so they can take out the bad ones.
    Wasnt there armed guards at the school that engaged the shooter outside? But ofcourse they failed to stop him from entry.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Deianeira View Post
    Wasnt there armed guards at the school that engaged the shooter outside? But ofcourse they failed to stop him from entry.
    they engaged him, he fired back. They suffered minor injuries (whatever that means) and allowed him to enter the school. Complete failure.

    'Local PD waited for Border Patrol to respond.

    It's very, very important to note that two cops and a "safety" officer failed to stop this kid. The response seems to have been delayed to prioritize the safety of the police.'

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Why does the public need to know the facts? Really? Listen to yourself, lol.

    When I say accountability, I mean the public knowing who is accountable. With no name, there is no-one to pin the crime on. When you know who it is, you know who's accountable. And the perpetrator of a hideous crime ought to be identified, because they should not be able to do what they do under the cover of anonymity. You can't hide their names in today's world, so asking people to visit a geographical location to get the info is naive and pointless, as the info will be global the moment it's made available. There's also the Streisand effect. Try to hide it and it just makes people more curious, and it actually increases the chances of innocent people being blamed.

    You don't like infamy, tough shit. It's a fact of life and infamous people have their place in the history books alongside the Marie Curies and Nelson Mandelas. Sure, the media doesn't need to go over the top with its analysing of every detail about a perpetrator's life, but withholding their identity from the public record? Unacceptable. People shouldn't argue to be less informed.
    But if the news dont say his name on tv, but he is tried and sentenced he IS in the public record. Seems to me you are just lazy and cant be bothered to check the public record for what the shooters name are if you are so interested.

  20. #200
    Fucked up apparently the dead where all from same class too guess he barricaded himself in that room.
    Last edited by ParanoiD84; 2022-05-25 at 03:11 PM.
    Do you hear the voices too?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •