Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Trifle]

I can't have a conversation with you about this until you put your opinions on this out in the open. Why can't we just remove all guns aside from revolvers and bolt action rifles? Why does anyone NEED to own something else? And, if so, how is a 250 year old ambiguous "rule" justifying it?

Not being from the US, I'd go further... why do people even need revolvers? You don't go hunting with them, literally the only reason you'd have a revolver is to shoot people (even if your excuse is "self defense"). Get rid of them too.

I understand with the circumstances the US is in that's unrealistic, but tbf pretty much any form of gun control happening seems to be unrealistic atm.

[cubby]

Not being from the US, I'd go further... why do people even need revolvers? You don't go hunting with them, literally the only reason you'd have a revolver is to shoot people (even if your excuse is "self defense"). Get rid of them too.

I understand with the circumstances the US is in that's unrealistic, but tbf pretty much any form of gun control happening seems to be unrealistic atm.

There are a couple of European countries that do gun control very well. Even in countries with a high percentage of gun ownership. I'd be very happy with the U.S. just copying those rules - and really, rifles are the only gun that's really needed (bolt action, for hunting).


Infracted.

[Trifle]

There are a couple of European countries that do gun control very well. Even in countries with a high percentage of gun ownership. I'd be very happy with the U.S. just copying those rules - and really, rifles are the only gun that's really needed (bolt action, for hunting).

There's arguments for low caliber semi-autos for things like pest control (problem there is you'd want to restrict the magazine size which is going to be difficult to enforce), but you could potentially have a multi-tiered licensing system and go really strict on that sort of stuff. To be fair it is still a difficult subject, but the US isn't even really close to those difficult distinctions atm so even a first step would be better than just doing nothing.


Infracted.

[Breccia]

I know, it wasn't entirely fair on my part, a lock isn't in anyway shape or form a solution to this problem.

I got what you were going for, just taking every single opportunity to demonstrate the cascade of failures that was Texas' solution to the problem they insisted we have.

If you load everyone up with guns, but then claim the children will be safe because of police, drills, and locks, you should be doubly and triply derided when those security measures fail. The lock failed, the drills failed, and the police stood around like pussies.

[TexasRules]

There are a couple of European countries that do gun control very well. Even in countries with a high percentage of gun ownership. I'd be very happy with the U.S. just copying those rules - and really, rifles are the only gun that's really needed (bolt action, for hunting).

So you think that Joe Biden's idea of home defense using a shotgun is invalid. By your logic all shotguns are not allowed either. You also have to make new laws outlawing antique weapons to be owned. There are several semi automatic weapons that are antiques and not registered.

You obviously don't hunt very often either. Probably never had a neighbor ask for help with a feral hog infestation. But hey, why let reality ruin your plans for authoritarian control of a population.

Any life taken in a school shooting is too many, but does anyone know an actual count of mass shooting deaths? Think it's like 170 in the last 29 years. Reactionary moral outrage without real solutions happens every time there is a shooting of any kind...except in inner cities. Then there is no outrage at all.


Infracted.

[Breccia]

By your logic all shotguns are not allowed either.

This is a lie. You are lying.

[Endus]

So you think that Joe Biden's idea of home defense using a shotgun is invalid. By your logic all shotguns are not allowed either. You also have to make new laws outlawing antique weapons to be owned. There are several semi automatic weapons that are antiques and not registered.

You obviously don't hunt very often either. Probably never had a neighbor ask for help with a feral hog infestation. But hey, why let reality ruin your plans for authoritarian control of a population.

Gun control is not "authoritarian". It's just some basic safety regulations. Absolutely bog-standard in any developed nation other than the USA. Who's one of the most authoritarian developed nations, I might add.

Any life taken in a school shooting is too many, but does anyone know an actual count of mass shooting deaths? Think it's like 170 in the last 29 years. Reactionary moral outrage without real solutions happens every time there is a shooting of any kind...except in inner cities. Then there is no outrage at all.

Let's check those figures; https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/07/us/20...ver/index.html

So, not 170. 278 people shot and killed in mass shootings. More than 1300 more injured in the same.

This year. Those are the figures for 2022, so far. And it's not even halfway through the year.

You have literally no clue what the hell you're talking about.

[Edge-]

Probably never had a neighbor ask for help with a feral hog infestation.

I see what you're doing there with the memes, and that joke is still funny.

Any life taken in a school shooting is too many, but does anyone know an actual count of mass shooting deaths? Think it's like 170 in the last 29 years. Reactionary moral outrage without real solutions happens every time there is a shooting of any kind...except in inner cities. Then there is no outrage at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2021

Well, for 2021 we had a total of 698 mass shootings totalling in 705 deaths and 2,830 injuries.

Though your "inner city" strawman remains just that. Stop trying to change the topic that you're wrong on anyways.

[Trifle]

Any life taken in a school shooting is too many, but does anyone know an actual count of mass shooting deaths? Think it's like 170 in the last 29 years. Reactionary moral outrage without real solutions happens every time there is a shooting of any kind...except in inner cities. Then there is no outrage at all.

Shotguns do see usage in hunting too, true. Self defense with guns I don't personally think should be legal for various reasons, but I know you don't agree with that so it's fine to leave that alone.

Do you mean per year? If you seriously think it's 170 total in the last 29 years you're completely delusional. That being said, you are correct that most gun related deaths aren't in mass shootings, but that isn't exactly an argument against gun control.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
If I'm reading this correctly, there's been 250 mass shooting deaths this year alone... but there's also been 8500 gun killings that weren't mass shooting events. That suicide number is also depressingly high, and while a number of them would find other ways to kill themselves making it harder would most likely reduce that number.

The chart for the other years shows breakdowns there which paint a similar story.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Oh, and according to Rep Louie Gohmert, gun violence is happening because Democrats hate God, don't pray enough and want abortions...

It's great republican logic.

Because Democrats support "murdering" children in the womb... God's going to send teenagers to murder children in their classrooms. That'll teach 'em!

[Breccia]

So you think that Joe Biden's idea of home defense using a shotgun is invalid. By your logic all shotguns are not allowed either. You also have to make new laws outlawing antique weapons to be owned. There are several semi automatic weapons that are antiques and not registered.

You obviously don't hunt very often either. Probably never had a neighbor ask for help with a feral hog infestation. But hey, why let reality ruin your plans for authoritarian control of a population.

Any life taken in a school shooting is too many, but does anyone know an actual count of mass shooting deaths? Think it's like 170 in the last 29 years. Reactionary moral outrage without real solutions happens every time there is a shooting of any kind...except in inner cities. Then there is no outrage at all.

Actually you know what, I'm done with this already.

You were warned:

There has been a previous warning against delving into gun control. I get the point but all shooting threads end up closed this way and there is still a lot to discuss about the Robb Elementary shooting. Keep gun control discussion in its own megathread.

Twice.

Please drop gun control discussion, technical gun discussion and especially personal back and forth as these only derail the discussion.

And yet, you come back and immediately violate the rules and the warnings posted today.

[Xyonai]

Any life taken in a school shooting is too many, but does anyone know an actual count of mass shooting deaths? Think it's like 170 in the last 29 years. Reactionary moral outrage without real solutions happens every time there is a shooting of any kind...except in inner cities. Then there is no outrage at all.

The sheer fucking audacity of this whole statement is mind boggling. The 'Oh the mass shooting death numbers aren't a big deal~' combo'd into 'Well you don't actually give a shit about 'Inner City Violence'' really shows how few fucks you actually give about the victims beyond what cheap political points you can score with trying to shame folks with supposed hypocrisy.

[cubby]

There's arguments for low caliber semi-autos for things like pest control (problem there is you'd want to restrict the magazine size which is going to be difficult to enforce), but you could potentially have a multi-tiered licensing system and go really strict on that sort of stuff. To be fair it is still a difficult subject, but the US isn't even really close to those difficult distinctions atm so even a first step would be better than just doing nothing.

The U.S. has an almost insurmountable problem with respect to the issues surrounding mass shootings. The fact that people are willing to trade children's lives for their 'Murica war guns is mind boggling.

[Milchshake]

Sorry, but people claiming that they "need ARs to hunt hogs, prairie dogs, coyotes."

1. Are lying.
2. They just want to cosplay as soldiers and mangle stuff with bullets.
3. Have small penis syndrome.

Change my mind! /s

[downnola]

You keep repeating the same innate nonsense, you're a vapid object. Even though it might seem paradoxical, if you want to achieve anything you have to put your skin in the game and act. And despite the fact that most of your success depends entirely on chance, if you don't act you don't achieve anything. You can keep screaming republicans do bad things. but as long as you do not act, you are enabling their bad behavior. .The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

He's repeating himself because you still haven't gotten it through your thick fucking skull that school shootings like this won't stop happening until AR-15s, and guns in general, are harder for any person with cash or credit to buy with little to no oversight. That doesn't happen without political action, which you seem to dismiss with vague and empty platitudes as if there's some other magical fucking way to keep tactical rifles out of radicalized and/or unhinged shooter's hands.

There's no defeatism or a desire for inaction from us when we point out the very real roadblocks to gun regulation thanks to Republicans at every level of government. New York passes stricter gun laws every single time there's a school shooting while Republicans are trying to overturn NY's conceal carry ban by a Republican stacked Supreme Court. Every year Republican-led states loosen their gun laws to absurdity while the momentum to pass even the slightest restrictions on the sale of guns and high-capacity magazines are gridlocked by the Senate, an institution implemented by the founders as a way to circumvent democratic action itself. Acknowledging all of this is not an admission of apathy or an argument that nothing can be done. Nobody who has responded to your drivel in this thread so far has said anything of the sort. It's just mind-boggling that anyone would have the audacity to say something so ridiculously stupid in a thread like this.

But then again, there are only two types of people who are silly enough to barge into a thread about a school massacre and act like anyone but Republicans and gun nuts are to blame for the constant shootings like this: 1) political hipsters who think vomiting out hot takes is a measure of their own intelligence and 2) clueless people, who instead of putting in an effort to understand a topic before arrogantly spouting off about it, would rather come off as fair-minded and politically neutral about a serious political problem. I think your platitude-filled posts are an example of a little of column A and a little of column B with a strong dash of attention-seeking behavior. They add nothing to the thread whatsoever but a derailment for your own self-centered enjoyment.

But hey, I could be wrong and your heart is in the right place. Maybe you just mistakenly thought it was a good idea to scold the people who have to pay the price (and have paid the price) for this senseless violence because you think you know their broken country better than they do. Well, I'm here to tell you that you don't. It wasn't a good idea and you just look like a massive tool instead.

[Mihalik]

bunch of horseshit.

Lie after lie after lie.

Each debunked in seconds, just for your ilk to instantly come up with some other lie.

Do you ever get tired of being a dishonest piece of ...?

Because you are fully aware of the fact that you're lying all the time. How do you wake up in the morning, look into the mirror and be ok with who you are as a person?

[PhaelixWW]

Shame on you, in all aspects. You don't understand the word disingenuous, clearly. And if you do, and are just using it purposefully incorrectly, well, that's the ultimate irony. So which is it? Ignorant or hypocritical? Your choice, and either way, you lose.

But go on with your vitriol. I'll go ahead and post that PM you sent. S

hame indeed.

So now we have not just another ad hominem and deflection, but also a false dichotomy and... what, a threat?

Just doubling down on the lack of class, eh? Sad.

[gondrin]

So you think that Joe Biden's idea of home defense using a shotgun is invalid. By your logic all shotguns are not allowed either. You also have to make new laws outlawing antique weapons to be owned. There are several semi automatic weapons that are antiques and not registered.

You obviously don't hunt very often either. Probably never had a neighbor ask for help with a feral hog infestation. But hey, why let reality ruin your plans for authoritarian control of a population.

Any life taken in a school shooting is too many, but does anyone know an actual count of mass shooting deaths? Think it's like 170 in the last 29 years. Reactionary moral outrage without real solutions happens every time there is a shooting of any kind...except in inner cities. Then there is no outrage at all.

I'll be real blunt here. Unless you live in specific areas in the country, the VAST majority of people will not run into any animals that will cause harm to them. While feral hogs are a problem for a very small part of the country, that doesn't mean it matters elsewhere.

As far as inner city gun crime, especially gang crime, it has been an issue for a long time that people have brought up for nearly 40 years. Multiple laws have been passed in said cities(like Stop and Frisk laws in New York City). Ironically, those laws are being overturned BECAUSE the same people complaining about inner city gang crime don't want gun control laws in the first place.

The only time I will ever agree with outright bans for firearms is apartment buildings or dwellings that are connected to each other because, unless you have an extremely small round or other projectiles that don't go through walls, your chance of killing a neighbor goes way up. I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but under a stressful situation, the VAST VAST majority of people will miss far more then they hit in the head of the moment. Especially a target that is moving around.

Fun Fact. Putting fake rounds in a gun that just makes the sound will cause most people to run away and never try again while NOT putting others in harms way.

[P for Pancetta]

He's repeating himself because you still haven't gotten it through your thick fucking skull that school shootings like this won't stop happening until AR-15s, and guns in general, are harder for any person with cash or credit to buy with little to no oversight. That doesn't happen without political action, which you seem to dismiss with vague and empty platitudes as if there's some other magical fucking way to keep tactical rifles out of radicalized and/or unhinged shooter's hands.

And this shit excuse of yours isn't an empty platitude? I'm not talking about magic, I'm talking about action. Meaning you moving your ass out of your chair and going places. It might sound vague, but that's purposeful since there are hundreds of different things you could do. Yet for some reason you "good guys" are willfully blind to all this and keep on pointing the finger while people get murdered.

There's no defeatism or a desire for inaction from us when we point out the very real roadblocks to gun regulation thanks to Republicans at every level of government. New York passes stricter gun laws every single time there's a school shooting while Republicans are trying to overturn NY's conceal carry ban by a Republican stacked Supreme Court. Every year Republican-led states loosen their gun laws to absurdity while the momentum to pass even the slightest restrictions on the sale of guns and high-capacity magazines are gridlocked by the Senate, an institution implemented by the founders as a way to circumvent democratic action itself. Acknowledging all of this is not an admission of apathy or an argument that nothing can be done. Nobody who has responded to your drivel in this thread so far has said anything of the sort. It's just mind-boggling that anyone would have the audacity to say something so ridiculously stupid in a thread like this.

While Gun regulation would probably be the most impactful action at this point. It isn't the only solution or angle you could take, yet you are completely blind to anything else then gun-control. you don't try, you don't think, you don't act.

But then again, there are only two types of people who are silly enough to barge into a thread about a school massacre and act like anyone but Republicans and gun nuts are to blame for the constant shootings like this: 1) political hipsters who think vomiting out hot takes is a measure of their own intelligence and 2) clueless people, who instead of putting in an effort to understand a topic before arrogantly spouting off about it, would rather come off as fair-minded and politically neutral about a serious political problem. I think your platitude-filled posts are an example of a little of column A and a little of column B with a strong dash of attention-seeking behavior. They add nothing to the thread whatsoever but a derailment for your own self-centered enjoyment.

The world isn't that black and white. The irony of this comment is beautiful though. How can we talk about serious political topics if the "good guys" are living with their head up their ass? If anyone doesn't understand this problem it's Americans, what other proof do you need then decades of not being able to solve this relatively simple problem.

But hey, I could be wrong and your heart is in the right place. Maybe you just mistakenly thought it was a good idea to scold the people who have to pay the price (and have paid the price) for this senseless violence because you think you know their broken country better than they do. Well, I'm here to tell you that you don't. It wasn't a good idea and you just look like a massive tool instead.

I don't care what you think about me, the reason you care about me is because what I say is true, and it hurts.

Going to stop replying to these kinds of posts now, if you want a reply you need to come up with arguments instead of weak excuses and fallacies.

[Shadowferal]

Going to stop replying to these kinds of posts now, if you want a reply you need to come up with arguments instead of weak excuses and fallacies.

You mean you're running away. Just like a libertarian full of shitty platitudes that mean nothing. And when it comes to details, you reveal you have nothing because you don't know anything.