Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[unfilteredJW]

It's about owning something with some actual capability.

Jesus fucking yikes.

[Tentim]

What about the band kids, just right off the top of my head as an ex-band kid myself? Are the cases for kids cellos and saxophones and such all gonna be replaced with clear versions, too? Because it's dead simple to just stick an AR-15 in some of those bigger cases and leave the instrument at home, or any number of smaller weapons in smaller cases.

Duffels for sports gear? Can we still bring cakes are do all such things have to be clear jello from now on so nobody sneaks a gun into the school inside a cake?

This is just fuckin' stupid. Everyone involved in this decisions need to be slapped for being so fuckin' stupid.

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When those 100+ million people don't really have good justifications for wanting guns, or are mishandling those weapons so consistently that the USA has the massive gun violence rates it currently "enjoys", then yes.

One dead kid who needn't have died is plenty of reason to have that discussion and make changes.

And unfortunately for you, it's way more than one.

https://www.bradyunited.org/key-statistics

Statistically, 22 children are shot every day in the USA. 5 of these kids die. 3 of those were murder, the rest mostly suicide. 8 are intentionally shot, but survive. And 8 more are shot every single day because someone was fucking around with a family-owned weapon.

Daily. Not monthly. Not yearly. Those figures are daily.

Rather still have a weapon. You should see obesity deaths if preventable deaths upset you.

[unfilteredJW]

Rather still have a weapon. You should see obesity deaths if preventable deaths upset you.

You guys really are just shite at these arguments.

[Endus]

Rather still have a weapon.

Why should what you want matter, in any way whatsoever?

Dahmer would rather have kept killing and eating people. Does that me he should've been allowed to?

You should see obesity deaths if preventable deaths upset you.

Hot tip: Dealing with one issue does not mean you can't deal with a second unrelated issue. There's no need to pick one and only one issue to address.

[Tentim]

You guys really are just shite at these arguments.

Not really we simply disagree. You hysterically believe that criminals will obey the laws of only you make ever increasing more of them. While others rather have personal liberties.

[Endus]

Not really we simply disagree. You hysterically believe that criminals will obey the laws of only you make ever increasing more of them.

Man, that's just an absolutely colossal failure to grasp even the most basic premises behind legal theory and law enforcement in general.

Laws don't exist to make people stop committing crimes. They aren't proactive. They're reactive. They punish offenses after the fact.

Nobody thinks the existence of a law will force criminals to obey that law. That's just an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.

While others rather have personal liberties.

Y'know, like Dahmer's "personal liberty" to kill and eat people he thought looked tasty.

You kind of need to justify why you think a particular freedom should be a protected freedom, if you want to make a convincing argument. I'm just gonna keep tossing Cannibal Dahmer at you until you stop engaging in bad faith nonsense like this.

[Tentim]

Man, that's just an absolutely colossal failure to grasp even the most basic premises behind legal theory and law enforcement in general.

Laws don't exist to make people stop committing crimes. They aren't proactive. They're reactive. They punish offenses after the fact.

Nobody thinks the existence of a law will force criminals to obey that law. That's just an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.



Y'know, like Dahmer's "personal liberty" to kill and eat people he thought looked tasty.

You kind of need to justify why you think a particular freedom should be a protected freedom, if you want to make a convincing argument. I'm just gonna keep tossing Cannibal Dahmer at you until you stop engaging in bad faith nonsense like this.

I'm pointing out the major flaw in your argument... unless we rule out accidental deaths most people who will commit violence with a weapon will not be stopped by the legality of it.

I think it's rather clear I believe people should have the right to hunt and defend themselves. Not everyone wants to wait the hour it will take for the police to find the nerve to help you...well the 400 police.

I see your position as a knee jerk over reaction and I can't put myself into a position where the benefits come close to outweighing the cons.

[unfilteredJW]

You hysterically believe that criminals will obey the laws of only you make ever increasing more of them.

Link where I said this.

[Endus]

I'm pointing out the major flaw in your argument... unless we rule out accidental deaths most people who will commit violence with a weapon will not be stopped by the legality of it.

Never been the argument behind gun control legislation, so I really don't understand what point you think you're making.

I think it's rather clear I believe people should have the right to hunt and defend themselves. Not everyone wants to wait the hour it will take for the police to find the nerve to help you...well the 400 police.

And you're also arguing, implicitly, that every abusive husband should be able to have a gun to threaten his wife with, or shoot her lover with. That families should have a gun their 13 year old can shoot themselves in the head with after a bad week and not being able to handle life any more. That the same families should have a gun their 8 year old sneaks out into the backyard to play with and accidentally fires, killing their toddler sister.

It's the same argument. You don't get your wants without also allowing all those.

I see your position as a knee jerk over reaction and I can't put myself into a position where the benefits come close to outweighing the cons.

The "cons" are "hundreds of avoidable deaths per year", and the "benefits" are "but I like guns".

Not seeing that math work out in your favor.

I'll also note that my "knee jerk over reaction" is the same stance that every developed nation but the USA have all accepted as the only legitimate answer.

[Tentim]

Never been the argument behind gun control legislation, so I really don't understand what point you think you're making.



And you're also arguing, implicitly, that every abusive husband should be able to have a gun to threaten his wife with, or shoot her lover with. That families should have a gun their 13 year old can shoot themselves in the head with after a bad week and not being able to handle life any more. That the same families should have a gun their 8 year old sneaks out into the backyard to play with and accidentally fires, killing their toddler sister.

It's the same argument. You don't get your wants without also allowing all those.



The "cons" are "hundreds of avoidable deaths per year", and the "benefits" are "but I like guns".

Not seeing that math work out in your favor.

I'll also note that my "knee jerk over reaction" is the same stance that every developed nation but the USA have all accepted as the only legitimate answer.

I'm not making an argument against responsibility so I don't fathom what your trying to argue. You can replace gun with knife or brick in any example you gave and it would be the same argument.

[Dontrike]

I'm not making an argument against responsibility so I don't fathom what your trying to argue. You can replace gun with knife or brick in any example you gave and it would be the same argument.

Tell me the next time a brick kills 30 people in a few minutes.

[Tentim]

Tell me the next time a brick kills 30 people in a few minutes.

I mean one bullet doesn't either but I have groupings of bricks that have.

[jonnysensible]

i mean this is still so grim

Student calls to 911:
12:03—whispered she's in room 112
12:10—said multiple dead
12:13—called again
12:16—says 8-9 students alive
12:19—student calls from room 111
12:21—3 shots heard on call
12:36—another call
12:43—asks for police
12:47—asks for police

imagine knowing there are kids alive for 40 minutes and doin nothing.

[gondrin]

I mean one bullet doesn't either but I have groupings of bricks that have.

However, it is far easier to dodge a brick or even multiple bricks then a bullet. If you can find someone that can dodge a bullet coming right at them from a close distance(50 feet or closer), please show everyone who they are. Also, a bullet can kill someone hitting in multiple locations in the body. A brick cannot kill someone unless you basically get hit in the head. It is also FAR easier to disarm someone throwing bricks then it is someone shooting a gun. FAR FAR easier.

[Tentim]

However, it is far easier to dodge a brick or even multiple bricks then a bullet. If you can find someone that can dodge a bullet coming right at them from a close distance(50 feet or closer), please show everyone who they are. Also, a bullet can kill someone hitting in multiple locations in the body. A brick cannot kill someone unless you basically get hit in the head. It is also FAR easier to disarm someone throwing bricks then it is someone shooting a gun. FAR FAR easier.

This seems like a dumb argument.

[Dontrike]

I mean one bullet doesn't either but I have groupings of bricks that have.

Cause guns only carry one bullet. Do you listen to yourself or do these smart arguments just come naturally?

[gondrin]

This seems like a dumb argument.

Well, you made the claim that someone with a bunch of bricks can do as much damage as someone with a gun, please show me these Mass Brickers going around killing a bunch of people. Especially kids. Show everyone even one person who has killed more than 10 people with bricks in an extremely short time span or even attempted to.

[Skulltaker]

This seems like a dumb argument.

Kay. You get a brick, I get my handgun. Let's see how that turns out.

[gondrin]

Cause guns only carry one bullet. Do you listen to yourself or do these smart arguments just come naturally?

He must think that every gun is like old school muskets where you it takes a good 30 seconds to a minute to reload after every shot and that shot has a good chance to miss even pointing right at the person.

[Elegiac]

This seems like a dumb argument.

So is comparing a brick to a firearm in the first place.