Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Is there any connection between conspiracy theorists and the gold standard?

    I see them talking about living off grid owning gold and silver and saying that the dollar should be backed by gold. What's up with that?

  2. #2
    eh? Because conspiracy theorists are basically defined by their mistrust of authority and...reality? If you're the type of person who doesn't believe what They™ tell you, why would you trust the money that They™ tell you to use?

  3. #3
    Many of them are idiots
    - Lars

  4. #4
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    35,013
    Yes.

    These are also the same people trying to push crypto and NFTs as replacement for real money in the future.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  5. #5
    From around 2017 Turkey started seizing the gold from their private citizens, either forcefully or coercively. Since 2018 the lira has since the heaviest inflation in the world, losing 44% of its value last year.

    Inflation is a regressive tax on the middle-class whose net worth solely exist in fiat. The wealthier people, who own property are insulated against that tax. Their value only increases comparatively.

    Gold is the traditional way for normal people to escape the erosion of their fiat. This is because gold is fungible (unlike a house, it can be divided into smaller chunks). The tax-through-inflation scheme only works if normal people don't have this escape route which is why Erdogan pre-emptively tried to shut that down.

    It's a conspiracy against the Turkish public. It's not even a theory, it's playing out for everyone to see.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    From around 2017 Turkey started seizing the gold from their private citizens, either forcefully or coercively. Since 2018 the lira has since the heaviest inflation in the world, losing 44% of its value last year.

    Inflation is a regressive tax on the middle-class whose net worth solely exist in fiat. The wealthier people, who own property are insulated against that tax. Their value only increases comparatively.

    Gold is the traditional way for normal people to escape the erosion of their fiat. This is because gold is fungible (unlike a house, it can be divided into smaller chunks). The tax-through-inflation scheme only works if normal people don't have this escape route which is why Erdogan pre-emptively tried to shut that down.

    It's a conspiracy against the Turkish public. It's not even a theory, it's playing out for everyone to see.
    are you a member of the john birch society?

  7. #7
    Yes there absolutely is a connection. It because most of the conspiracy theories appeal to religion, fear, and hate to try to gain traction. They spread 2 fear-mongering type ideas to the fb/fox crowd; 1) that some sort of civil war is imminent, and/or that 2) the "end times" are imminent. This ties into support for the gold standard idea and buying gold with the reasoning that gold could be used as currency in a situation where society has completely broken down. The funniest part being running news segments insinuating that this is actually going to happen, followed conveniently in the commercial breaks with ads for companies that sell gold.

    This idea of "end times" and similar conspiracy angles to manipulate people or sell things have been around for a long time. In the 80's it was people selling Nostradamus books that claimed he predicted the world was going to end the 80's. In the 90's it was claims that Y2K would be the end days and people sold "survival kits" and countless books on how to survive (lol) that. It is a consistent pattern of fear mongering->tell people they need to buy something you sell to survive it->profit.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    are you a member of the john birch society?
    There are plenty of Marxist critiques on Modern Money Theory (MMT) all the same. And as I pointed out myself already, inflation is a regressive tax. It hurts the people with the lowest incomes more than anyone else. When confronted with ideas it's best not to default to the opposite position of your ideological adversaries. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

  9. #9
    People see it as something they own and cant be reduced in value by govs because its super stable.

    Obvi not true and kinda dumb but if you live in Argentina I wouldnt fault you for owning gold as a hedge but in the US its kinda pointless?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    From around 2017 Turkey started seizing the gold from their private citizens, either forcefully or coercively. Since 2018 the lira has since the heaviest inflation in the world, losing 44% of its value last year.

    Inflation is a regressive tax on the middle-class whose net worth solely exist in fiat. The wealthier people, who own property are insulated against that tax. Their value only increases comparatively.

    Gold is the traditional way for normal people to escape the erosion of their fiat. This is because gold is fungible (unlike a house, it can be divided into smaller chunks). The tax-through-inflation scheme only works if normal people don't have this escape route which is why Erdogan pre-emptively tried to shut that down.

    It's a conspiracy against the Turkish public. It's not even a theory, it's playing out for everyone to see.
    Gold doesnt have an innate value. It being fungible is kinda pointless because its not really used as that? Govs ruled by leftists seek to control the dollar moreso than gold because people see the dollar as a more stable currency, can be used for imports and as savings

    Thats why in these countries you see two exchanges, the official one controlled by the leftist government which uses hard currency controls and the unofficial one which floats the value of the dollar and is more accurate.

  10. #10
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    21,464
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    I see them talking about living off grid owning gold and silver and saying that the dollar should be backed by gold. What's up with that?
    They're paranoid and pessimistic about the economy... Ignore their fear mongering.
    living off grid
    I've been doing some homesteading projects(learning to DIY) as well but it's just for fun, I don't think the global supply chain is going to crumble or anything like that.
    gold and silver
    I'm a "periodic table of elements" collector so I bought a little Gold and some Silver coins a while back. I want to own as many different elements and atoms as possible! Just not the high mass low-value atoms like Iron.
    Last edited by PC2; 2022-05-25 at 07:48 PM.
    Let's spread optimism and defeat pessimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  11. #11
    Legendary! hellhamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Thessaloniki, Greece
    Posts
    6,369
    Dollars used to be backed first by gold, then by silver, as a means to link value to the currency and control the supply and by definition inflation and growth.

    Now it's backed only by the US federal government, as it is the sole issuer of currency. It defines its worth by its supply and demand, as well as the government's stability.

    This shift has made people believe that the government should not be trusted as the sole issuer and backer of currency, because they can control and change not just the US economy, but the global economy on a whim. The government can regulate supply and control where the money eventually goes. Some people naturally don't like that.

    Of course there are varying levels of this belief. After all people are on a spectrum. You can be a mild supporter of a belief, or you can become so radicalised with the same belief that you shut off society entirely.

    We are entering unexplored waters right now, where that exact notion is being put to the test. Inflation is rearing its ugly head with all the ramifications that come with it. If the governments can fight inflation without bringing down the economy too much, then kudos to them.

    Personally, I think that both are wrong, but that's easy to say. The trick is to go with the lesser of two evils. Right now, seeing how the world is faring right now, I think the "conspiracy nuts" are going to be proven right, unless the government can soft-land an economy with raising rates and high inflation and people will just forget about it. If the government doesn't handle it well, it will suck hard, as we will definitely be seeing unemployment skyrocket.

    People who hoard gold and live off the grid will probably not be better off than the rest of us, even if they are eventually right.

    Countries like Turkey are already in the thick of it, they even have a policy against raising interest rates that has resulted in hyperinflation. Latin American and other dollar dependant countries will follow suit, with Europe and China feeling it as well.
    Last edited by hellhamster; 2022-05-25 at 09:40 PM.

  12. #12
    Pit Lord
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dual US/Canada
    Posts
    2,299
    People forget that gold and silver were primarily decided to be the valid currencies in Ye Olde Days because it was something that only the powerful people had direct access to. But in practice, it's worth what someone is willing to give you for it. If a societal collapse happened, nobody is going to trade you their valuable food for your worthless gold, unless there is a government backing up that trade.

    Right now it's an investment same as any other. You can do well trading in it if you buy low sell high, but if you are hoarding it for a crash you'll be disappointed to find out that it'll crash with everything else.

  13. #13
    <sexism>Because as long as there's women, shiny things will always be the most valuable.</sexism>

  14. #14
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    All across Nirn.
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    These are also the same people trying to push crypto and NFTs as replacement for real money in the future.
    Not quite. The one place that crypto-advocates and people who advocate for the gold standard have in common is that they're uncomfortable with virtually unregulated, unelected authorities, such as the American Federal Reserve, having an unprecedented level of power over currency. At the most basic level, they differ as one group wants to take away power from these institutions by moving towards decentralized currencies (i.e.: transfer the power to print and regulate money to "the people"), whereas the other wants to reign in fiscal control by having currency backed by real value (i.e.: back each dollar with an amount of an asset, instead of a dollar being backed with the promise that the dollar is simply worth that amount). It's a common enemy, not a common goal.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  15. #15
    Banned Hammerfest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    7,992
    Conspiracy theories aren't allowed here... nor is discussing them.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    Conspiracy theories aren't allowed here... nor is discussing them.
    The irony is not only thick, it's exceptionally hilarious.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    reign in fiscal control by having currency backed by real value
    Never understood how people managed to convince themselves that the value of some shiny rocks was any less arbitrary than the value of some symbols and numbers.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    From around 2017 Turkey started seizing the gold from their private citizens, either forcefully or coercively. Since 2018 the lira has since the heaviest inflation in the world, losing 44% of its value last year.

    Inflation is a regressive tax on the middle-class whose net worth solely exist in fiat. The wealthier people, who own property are insulated against that tax. Their value only increases comparatively.

    Gold is the traditional way for normal people to escape the erosion of their fiat. This is because gold is fungible (unlike a house, it can be divided into smaller chunks). The tax-through-inflation scheme only works if normal people don't have this escape route which is why Erdogan pre-emptively tried to shut that down.

    It's a conspiracy against the Turkish public. It's not even a theory, it's playing out for everyone to see.
    Turkey's inflation issues has nothing to do with gold it is solely because Edrogan doesn't believe in interest rates due to religion. He has fired several heads of central banks who have raised interest rates to fight inflation, he doesn't believe in economics. The gold being seized is a sad attempt to prop up the lira and it has failed miserably because backing your currency by gold comes with its own can of worms.

  19. #19
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    All across Nirn.
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Never understood how people managed to convince themselves that the value of some shiny rocks was any less arbitrary than the value of some symbols and numbers.
    It's because it's a shiny rock that has a value defined by two things:
    1) Cultural identifier of wealth across all cultures (i.e.: it is universally perceived as having value).
    2) Gold is a finite resource, of which there is a very limited supply in circulation or left to be mined (around 80~% of Earth's [accessible] gold has been mined).

    So the value of gold is defined by consensus and scarcity. That said, there's an argument to be made whether gold should be used as a store of value. For instance, gold is important in developing computers (can be substituted with silver, although it is inferior), and is likely not best utilized when sitting in massive warehouses for storage. While the two solutions are not ideal, there are very real criticisms that can be levied against the U.S. Federal Reserve, from which most of the world derives their own currencies value, and which is essentially unregulated. There's also the fact that the Federal Reserve basically allows banks to print money from nothing, but that's a whole other rabbit hole.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Turkey's inflation issues has nothing to do with gold it is solely because Edrogan doesn't believe in interest rates due to religion. He has fired several heads of central banks who have raised interest rates to fight inflation, he doesn't believe in economics. The gold being seized is a sad attempt to prop up the lira and it has failed miserably because backing your currency by gold comes with its own can of worms.
    I didn't say nor imply that the seizure of gold caused the inflation. The seizure of gold is one of the ways to prevent capital flight. The more people are forced to participate in your currency, the more lucrative the inflation is to Erdogan.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •