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  1. #1
    Pandaren Monk Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    Why do actors want to be able to act?

    Hey.

    I noticed a lot of actors who play characters who usually wear masks/Helms can’t wait a second before they take them off in movies and series

    Characters like Red hood, Flash, Star lord, Spider man, Iron man, Ant-man, Black panther and more, as soon as a dialogue heavy scene happens mask is instantly off no matter what.

    I assume it is because the actors want to be able to show facial expressions but imo it feels very out-of-place for the actual characters most of the time

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  2. #2
    It's not about the actor, it's about the director.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    Then you have the likes of Bradley Cooper and Vin Diesel who are happy to portray a raccoon and a tree through multiple movies.

    But yeah, removing the mask is mostly to give them character and discernible emotion. Essentially something that is done for the audience, though there are times I wish the mask was kept on. Jason Todd in Titans is so lame with his boyish face and that silly hair style (and the "street attitude"). With the mask (and voice enhancer) on he was so much better, but nope, even as Red Hood he just had to keep taking the damn thing off (or have it forcibly removed by an opponent). Titans in general suffers quite a lot from miscasting imo.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    Then you have the likes of Bradley Cooper and Vin Diesel who are happy to portray a raccoon and a tree through multiple movies.

    But yeah, removing the mask is mostly to give them character and discernible emotion. Essentially something that is done for the audience, though there are times I wish the mask was kept on. Jason Todd in Titans is so lame with his boyish face and that silly hair style (and the "street attitude"). With the mask (and voice enhancer) on he was so much better, but nope, even as Red Hood he just had to keep taking the damn thing off (or have it forcibly removed by an opponent). Titans in general suffers quite a lot from miscasting imo.
    I had not started the S3 yet but i saw some red hood clip and instantly lost all interest to watch it.

    That’s just the dumbest thing ever.

    The entire point of ”Under the red hood” was that you were trying to figure out who it was.

    But here they just take it off after not even a minute of screen time

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  5. #5
    Expression is extremely important but it's just not only that: Hollywood is an star system.

    Among the reasons people have to choose a movie the star is in the top by a significant margin with the only exception of huge IPs ( people will get in line for the next Star Wars no matter if the protagonist ...is me) way ahead of genre , or critics or director or writter or the trailer.

    "Hey , the last movie of Jennifer Lawrence.This has to be at least decent...my Jenn is never gonna be in a trash movie".

    Hollywood is the land of the giant floating heads ( the movie poster always needs to show the faces of the stars).

    Now go figure Iron Man is fighting Ultron. The fight last 10 minutes and for that period we never see Robert Downey Jr. The public ( and they are right) think the guy inside the costume is not actually RDJ ( and he isn't) and that's not what they want: they want to see the star they like fighting Ultron.When the hero is hanging from a gutter top of a building with one hand and the villain is stomping on that hand they want to see the face of the star, they want to feel the star is in danger not the action stunt.Public hate thinking the star haven't even participated in that scene ( and it's true: if you don't show the face there's zero reasons to it).

    With the prevalence of the superhero genre ( fun fact: 5 of 6 biggest box office in the US in 2021 are Marvel characters films) studios have developed an array of rules to streamline this process. For example middle mask it's ok ( Batman, Capt. America..) because you can recognize the actor ( the chin and the eyes are enough) and analitic close shots are too as a middle ground:



    Iron Man does not take his mask in every scene ( a lot of them tough) because you use these tricks to show the face but...Iron Man with the Infinity Gauntlet looking at a confused Thanos before the snap saying:"..and I am Iron man"? No fucking way. No Mask...you fuck the whole scene with the mask.

    So it's not just about expression...it's about selling your star is flying and dodging bullets not an stunt or a CGI because even with masks expression is possible ( boy how much time they have spent to learn this in Hollywood, it's absurd....the solution that comics had for decades).



    1. Ummm....
    2. What the fuck
    3. /facepalm
    4. Holy fucking shit.

    As we can see Spiderman mask is very special. Somehow the eyebrows and all the complex external orbicular muscles are glued to the mask so when Parker moves his face the mask moves. Obviously it's not...this is just the solution for expression comic artists gave to this problem and it's one that works wonder but use it with moderation...people still paid to see Tom Holland hanging from the Statue of Liberty not an action stunt.
    Last edited by PrimiOne; 2022-05-25 at 02:54 PM.

  6. #6
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    I had not started the S3 yet but i saw some red hood clip and instantly lost all interest to watch it.

    That’s just the dumbest thing ever.

    The entire point of ”Under the red hood” was that you were trying to figure out who it was.

    But here they just take it off after not even a minute of screen time
    To be fair, by now it's common af knowledge who Red Hood is, at least to the intended audience of Titans. Mysterious Masked Character in general is a though plotline to carry, when the rule is that it has to be someone the audience is already aware of, but it shouldn't be obvious. People have become too genre-savvy for it to work anymore, at least if the show doesn't have some serious writing chops behind it. Which Titans doesn't.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  7. #7
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    People generally have a stronger emotional connection with a character when they can see that person’s face.

    Even in a show like the mandalorian the big emotional moments at the end of season one and season two involve him taking his helmet off. And him not taking his helmet off is an actual part of his character, unlike the others listed where it’s something they do for simple anonymity when they’re hero’ing about.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimiOne View Post
    Iron Man does not take his mask in every scene ( a lot of them tough) because you use these tricks to show the face but...Iron Man with the Infinity Gauntlet looking at a confused Thanos before the snap saying:"..and I am Iron man"? No fucking way. No Mask...you fuck the whole scene with the mask.

    So it's not just about expression...it's about selling your star is flying and dodging bullets not an stunt or a CGI because even with masks expression is possible ( boy how much time they have spent to learn this in Hollywood, it's absurd....the solution that comics had for decades).
    Seeing Tony's face when he snaps is crucial to his entire character arc since Iron Man.

    On the broader point: not many actors and not many movies can pull off not removing a mask. Hugo Weaving in V for Vendetta is a rare gem for this reason.
    Last edited by Flarelaine; 2022-05-26 at 06:21 AM.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    On the broader point: not many actors and not many movies can pull off not removing a mask. Hugo Weaving in V for Vendetta is a rare gem for this reason.
    Darth Vader should have left the mask on.

    Instead, we got Sebastian Shaw for the denouement. Sigh.

    It's such a travesty that James Earl Jones was only paid $7k for A New Hope.

    I think I'm due a rewatch soon... yesterday was the 45th anniversary of the original, so I'll probably go watch the Harmy version.


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    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Darth Vader should have left the mask on.
    I think Darth Vader removing the mask was also important for his character arc (though not for the same reasons as for Tony). It was a symbol of him not being Vader anymore but regaining his humanity as Anakin.

  11. #11
    The Marvel/DC movies particularly are fairly formulaic, which is also why Hollywood likes them. Movies are a big investment and a failed movie can cost investors many millions. So like the videogame industry, they like "safe" formulas where the sales are going to be more predictable. So most Marvel/DC movies at a high-level are using a similar structure. It also doesn't help that the rare times they've gone outside of the formula those movies didn't do as well.

    So each Marvel/DC movie has it's own unique individual story, but the template is about the same. And that includes things like using recognizable stars that take their masks/helms off during most dialogue. That's also really a director call rather than something the actor would decide. If it's a big star like Robert Downey Jr. the director is more likely to listen to their suggestions, but it'll be up to the director whether it's on or off. So I think it's more about maintaining the system that they know works than an actor or actress personally wanting their facial expressions seen.

  12. #12
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    These actors are expensive, they aren't going to pay them all that money and then hide them.
    /s

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    It's such a travesty that James Earl Jones was only paid $7k for A New Hope.
    Didn't homeboy not even want his name on the credits because he didn't think doing the voice was worth a credit or something?

    Though the dude that played Vader in the suit (the german guy) got absolutely thunderfucked by Hollywood accounting which IIRC still says that Return of the Jedi isn't profitable yet for...uh...reasons.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    I think Darth Vader removing the mask was also important for his character arc (though not for the same reasons as for Tony). It was a symbol of him not being Vader anymore but regaining his humanity as Anakin.
    Minor point here, but Vader didn’t remove his mask. Luke removed it for him so he could look upon his son with his own eyes one time before he died.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Didn't homeboy not even want his name on the credits because he didn't think doing the voice was worth a credit or something?

    Though the dude that played Vader in the suit (the german guy) got absolutely thunderfucked by Hollywood accounting which IIRC still says that Return of the Jedi isn't profitable yet for...uh...reasons.
    Yeah, I don’t get how it can make 10x its budget(initial run) and not turn a profit.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yeah, I don’t get how it can make 10x its budget(initial run) and not turn a profit.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting

    General link for anyone interested, but long story short: It's all bullshit and they can make the numbers do whatever they want, basically. As with everything, the game is rigged.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Hey.

    I noticed a lot of actors who play characters who usually wear masks/Helms can’t wait a second before they take them off in movies and series

    Characters like Red hood, Flash, Star lord, Spider man, Iron man, Ant-man, Black panther and more, as soon as a dialogue heavy scene happens mask is instantly off no matter what.

    I assume it is because the actors want to be able to show facial expressions but imo it feels very out-of-place for the actual characters most of the time
    Humans empathize more with characters when they can see a face. We are distrustful of characters whose faces are always covered up.
    Princesses can kill knights to rescue dragons.

  17. #17
    But Karl Urban's Judge Dredd was well done to me.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    But Karl Urban's Judge Dredd was well done to me.
    Who needs their whole face when all you really need is that scowl.

  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Depends on the actor really. Some love getting lost behind a character. Others want the recognition, there's advantages and disadvantages to both.


    If you are an upcoming actor, maybe someone looking to pull in more work, you might want people to build up that facial recognition.


    When people go see Will Smith in a movie, they don't see the character he is playing, they go to see Will Smith.

    How many people actually know who Andy Serkis despite him being great in everything he does? Not many because you barely see him as him

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Minor point here, but Vader didn’t remove his mask. Luke removed it for him so he could look upon his son with his own eyes one time before he died.
    Kind of ironic considering the topic since the actor we see in that scene isn't the one who particularly made the character iconic. His face reveal had nothing to do with either actor who formed the character.

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Depends on the actor really. Some love getting lost behind a character. Others want the recognition, there's advantages and disadvantages to both.


    If you are an upcoming actor, maybe someone looking to pull in more work, you might want people to build up that facial recognition.


    When people go see Will Smith in a movie, they don't see the character he is playing, they go to see Will Smith.

    How many people actually know who Andy Serkis despite him being great in everything he does? Not many because you barely see him as him

    - - - Updated - - -



    Kind of ironic considering the topic since the actor we see in that scene isn't the one who particularly made the character iconic. His face reveal had nothing to do with either actor who formed the character.
    Yeah, it was the original voice changer. I remembering thinking he looked like Humpty Dumpty when they took his mask off too, so all around disappointment. Woulda been funny if it was James Earl Jones under the mask though. The early 80s conversations about a black guy having not one but two kids who were white as hell…

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