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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    That's not slightly above the average that's people at the 75% percentile, which usually represents what you can deliver by playing at your best while handling some mechanics that will slightly hinder your output. I've found it to be a realistic view on what you can expect a good player to deliver.

    Whereas looking at the top of the top, you will find people that abuse some mechanics to boost their figures (let it be cheese mechanics, cumulation of trinket effects, priest IP, etc.). You will seldom find something realistic there and often confusing.
    Mate, those are above average people. Lebron James is much, MUCH better than your average college player, in the same way that a top 0.01% billionaire is much richer than your average millionaire, a world champion grappler will submit 20 average black belts in a row without rest, I'm doing 20s but Meeres is 100x better than I am, etc. you get the point. Even with PIs and other stuff... Scripe himself said he stacked locks even without PI. That argument has no legs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    By now I think the drastic balance issues are intentional and dictated by whatever collection of metrics and formulas they use for it. If players without any of the developer tools and insight can sim a spec and see how vastly better it is then play it and see it is indeed vastly better then the developers can do so much more.
    I agree and we should treat it as such. But is a shame and detrimental to the game as I mentioned in my OP.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I've been advocating this as well, for years. But Blizzard is adamantly against it. They want everyone to be able to just jump into any form of content with minimal difference in how they play. Which is a pipe dream on the best of days, and a complete nightmare on the worst.

    But it's what they want for mass appeal.
    Well, we know for a fact that all PvP gear will be the same ilvl when in engaging in PvP in Dragonflight.

    The only difference between entry level honor gear and elite gladiator gear is the appearances and the PvE ilvl.

    With everyone being on an equal playing field in terms of gear, it'll become readily apparent which specs are outliers in PvP.

    But yeah, when some specs are built around sustained damage and healing and others are built around rapid bursts of damage, it's inevitable that there will be clear winners and losers on the PvP scene.

    And that's not even mentioning the stark differences in CC and counterplay available between classes.
    Quote Originally Posted by AZSolii View Post
    "yes, let's piss him off because he loves his long hair. Let us twirl our evil mustaches amidst the background music of honky-tonk pianos! GENIUS!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Culexus View Post
    Yes i hate those sneaky account thieves that come to my house and steal my computer in order to steal some wow money! Those bastards! *shakes fist*

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by conkrete View Post
    This is what I never get, the types that stay on these forums defending Blizzard 24/7 on undeniably unjustifiable things. I'll never understand it.

    Well, at least he's not attacking anyone. Some people here just flat attack people for suggesting new things.
    Says the guy attacking others who disagree with them.

    What I don't get is people who think they are always right, Blizzard is always wrong, declare their opinions fact, and insult people who disagree with them by basically calling them white knights. You are guilty of every accusation you made from the other side. Pot calling kettle.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Says the guy attacking others who disagree with them.

    What I don't get is people who think they are always right, Blizzard is always wrong, declare their opinions fact, and insult people who disagree with them by basically calling them white knights. You are guilty of every accusation you made from the other side. Pot calling kettle.
    I read your reply carefully, every sentence you wrote is objectively false. The shoe must've fit. To not derail the topic, I won't reply to you moving forward.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by conkrete View Post
    I read your reply carefully, every sentence you wrote is objectively false. The shoe must've fit. To not derail the topic, I won't reply to you moving forward.
    NO it isn'tbecause you literally did it in your post. YOu literally insulted people who disagreed with you as blind defenders of Blizzard. You once again declared your opinion as fact in this post. And you once again threw a blind Blizzard defender insult with "the shoe must've"fit. You proved my point once again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    They make mistakes all the time and slow all the time. Stop justifying incompetence.
    Making mistakes does not = incompetence.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Making mistakes does not = incompetence.
    Making big mistakes (story) is a sign of incompetence. Furthermore they keep making the same mistakes in game design and resist to learn. If this isn't incompetence in your book, I do not know what is.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Making big mistakes (story) is a sign of incompetence. Furthermore they keep making the same mistakes in game design and resist to learn. If this isn't incompetence in your book, I do not know what is.
    No it is not IT is a sign of bring human. By your logic, only perfect people are competent which means everyone is incompetent.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    Well, we know for a fact that all PvP gear will be the same ilvl when in engaging in PvP in Dragonflight.

    The only difference between entry level honor gear and elite gladiator gear is the appearances and the PvE ilvl.

    With everyone being on an equal playing field in terms of gear, it'll become readily apparent which specs are outliers in PvP.
    Fun fact Holinka wants to allow in PVP, op oneshot trinkets from PVE. in DRAGONFLUCK ofc
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    This is a question for you Tinker haters out there.
    I already know that Tinker is the most probable class for 10.0, so probable that's it's practically a certainty.
    Regardless, since many of you disagree, what then is the most realistic class to be added for 10.0.
    Try to be neutral about it, no biasis.Maybe this exercise will help you see the light.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    The community will always exxagerate the smallest differences of damage output from two specs regardless of their utility, etc.
    It's blizzard responsibility to educate as best they can, but if you have websites such as wowhead and icyveins that pushes people to follow tierlists for mm+ and raids then what can they do?
    My MM hunter sims for over 25% more than my ret paladin in any reasonable AE sim with virtually the same gear...and is ranged, and has dramatically more utility that actually matters (lust, binding, soothe, purge, etc).

    And now WW is getting buffed so most other melee will be junk by comparison.

    You will obviously always have a meta, but let's not make it seem like it is 5% here or there. Ae is more complicated to balance than ST but the difference is often really huge.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    My MM hunter sims for over 25% more than my ret paladin in any reasonable AE sim with virtually the same gear...and is ranged, and has dramatically more utility that actually matters (lust, binding, soothe, purge, etc).

    And now WW is getting buffed so most other melee will be junk by comparison.

    You will obviously always have a meta, but let's not make it seem like it is 5% here or there. Ae is more complicated to balance than ST but the difference is often really huge.
    You've got one foot in the grave already if you think sims are an accurate depiction of what you can deliver. That being said, I'm not a fan of paladin's tools in dungeon environment. They really feel bad compared to a lot of other melees, even if they have some great ones that they can use to heal assist and skip some mechanics.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    You've got one foot in the grave already if you think sims are an accurate depiction of what you can deliver. That being said, I'm not a fan of paladin's tools in dungeon environment. They really feel bad compared to a lot of other melees, even if they have some great ones that they can use to heal assist and skip some mechanics.
    I mean, it is a metric. Like all metrics, it is imperfect. But some are better than others, and there's less disruption for a ranged class than a melee class in dungeons most of the time. A hunter can pump damage into most packs from relative safety without worrying about most disruption affixes (spiteful, storming) or front-cleaves etc. 20k with 275ish ilvl is pretty easy with just regular pulls, nothing fancy. You have a CD every single pull. It's nuts.

    Most specs can't do that, or if they can they have far less practical utility* or a vastly more difficult AE rotation (like shadow, heh) or have to tie long CDs perfectly.

    The main difference here with 8.3 fire mage insanity is that I guess at least a few different specs are busted at the same time.

    *soothe, lust, and nothing else is better than most specs in the game honestly. Those are things you need to have in basically every group. Compare that to the utility of a random plate melee spec and it is pretty lol. No one is forming a group around AMZ or Blessing of Protection or rallying
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    I mean, it is a metric. Like all metrics, it is imperfect. But some are better than others, and there's less disruption for a ranged class than a melee class in dungeons most of the time. A hunter can pump damage into most packs from relative safety without worrying about most disruption affixes (spiteful, storming) or front-cleaves etc. 20k with 275ish ilvl is pretty easy with just regular pulls, nothing fancy. You have a CD every single pull. It's nuts.

    Most specs can't do that, or if they can they have far less practical utility* or a vastly more difficult AE rotation (like shadow, heh) or have to tie long CDs perfectly.

    The main difference here with 8.3 fire mage insanity is that I guess at least a few different specs are busted at the same time.

    *soothe, lust, and nothing else is better than most specs in the game honestly. Those are things you need to have in basically every group. Compare that to the utility of a random plate melee spec and it is pretty lol. No one is forming a group around AMZ or Blessing of Protection or rallying
    Sounds like you want to play a hunter

  13. #33
    I play both! I find it annoying that my pal is comparatively useless
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

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