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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Not even in the top 3.

    1 - WoD's InfiniLegion broke huge parts of the lore. NEVER mess with time-travel, especially when your writers have molasses for brains
    2 - TBC had no story and transformed several characters into villains just because we needed loot piñatas
    3 - Cataclysm is a meme. Deathwing was something then they transformed him into a character that makes the Jailer look like a well-written person

    I understand recency bias is a thing but everyone pretending that WoW's lore was somehow good before Shadowlands is trolling or never played the other expansions.

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    So, are those "trannies" in the room with us right now, Ms. Neik?
    No Shadowlands is DEFINITELY the worst the lore has ever been. There has been more egregious retcons for Shadowlands than there has been for any other expansion before it.

  2. #82
    Stood in the Fire MoFalcon's Avatar
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    Well, I guess one thing needs to happen from here.....

    all of you post your lore fixes, lore corrections, lore original writings.
    All of you who "know" you can do it better, lets see it. Don't just complain. Fix it, rewrite it and lets all be judged.

    Post your works or stop crying about how they did it. Crying about how they did it wrong. Crying about how you all can do it better. LETS SEE IT!

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by MoFalcon View Post
    Well, I guess one thing needs to happen from here.....

    all of you post your lore fixes, lore corrections, lore original writings.
    All of you who "know" you can do it better, lets see it. Don't just complain. Fix it, rewrite it and lets all be judged.

    Post your works or stop crying about how they did it. Crying about how they did it wrong. Crying about how you all can do it better. LETS SEE IT!
    pay us first, how about that.

  4. #84
    Stood in the Fire MoFalcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    pay us first, how about that.
    put up or shut up....if you cant, thats fine. Everyone in here crying just thinks its so damn easy. put up or shut up!

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    To be honest? I think on a pure gameplay level, its no more or less fun than the last few expansions. I would argue 9.2 is even a better final patch than 8.3 was, because it came in having fixed much of the gameplay inconveniences that she Shadowlands borrowed power system brought, while 8.3 started with its own issue of randomness with the corruption system that needed its own fixing. The story felt lackluster but honestly, I would be surprised if the story, especially the Jailer as main villain, was something any of the writing devs felt passionate about and we don't know how much of it was still Afrasiabis brain child.

    My problem with WoW, and now I see it more clearly since I have gotten off the copium high, is that this is a vicious cycle that Blizzard does at every end of the expansion; Once a expansion gets to the end they "Fix" all the issues and problems of the current expansion, but once a new expansion releases they repeat all the shit and issues all over again. Playing this game for 17 years, I love wow, but the current state of the game is very very disappointing. The devs don't give a shit, lawsuits all the place in Blizzard. It is just a circus shit show at this point and the game seems to be thrown together just to pull in the homeless gamers off the streets.

    I told myself I wouldn't preorder the new expansion. I would like to see if Blizzard "Fixes" their issues and since they are trying to portray that they are listening to customers and the players base, I need to know if it is all bullshit. So I am going to wait about 3 or 4 months after the release to see if the issues are fixed before I even throw Blizzard any money. As of May 18th 2021, I have been playing FFXIV and loving it and NOT playing WoW. but for now I will be watching Blizzard from the sidelines to see how they treat the gamers.
    Be careful who you chat it up with here on these forums. If you are NOT for WoW and about WoW, people will report whatever you say and get you banned

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by MoFalcon View Post
    put up or shut up....if you cant, thats fine. Everyone in here crying just thinks its so damn easy. put up or shut up!
    you're not entitled to anyone's time or labor.

    if it upsets you so much that people are expressing their opinions the door is over there.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    no, the problem isn't even the bad writing, it's that it's bad and the people writing it think it's serious, epic and poignant.
    Do they, though?

    I think you don't give them enough credit. They're not pursuing the purity of artistic expression here. They're crafting a PRODUCT. They have rules to follow and goals to achieve. They aren't just writing formulaic episodes of bullshit for the sheer beauty of it, they're doing it because their bosses think that's what'll keep sales up and subs going.

    I'm not saying they're all Shakespeares in financial chains, but I don't think they're all idiots who are oblivious to their own shortcomings. Incompetence isn't to blame here as much as corporatism is.

    That being said, I'm sure there's something somewhere that DOES suffer from some kind of misperception about the story/lore. It's not entirely clear to me where exactly that element resides. But I'd wager it's not the poor writers who get to execute the vision - it'd be closer to the source of that vision. Is it all Afrasiabi's fault, or Danuser's? Maybe? It's hard to say without more info, and there's lots of opacity surrounding the creative process.

  8. #88
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Hell nah it was a shitfest lorewise, everyone complained loudly on forums. Same shit with Cata, WoD and BfA. To a lesser degree WotLK and Legion, and the only xpac with actual passable lore was Pandaria. Even Classic and WC3 have godawful story.

    But forums like to rewrite the past to make current shit look bad. In some years everyone will be looking fondly at Denathrius, some questlines, and completely ignoring the shitshow that is the main story.
    So you're saying you hate all warcraft lore, got it.

  9. #89
    Pit Lord Dristereau's Avatar
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    Well you could technically say that for Legion, BFA and Shadowlands we've been empowered by Artifact Weapons, the Hearth of Azeroth and Covenants and that without those things our own prowess would be limited. Personally I have no issues with our characters going on an exploration mission again, looking forward to it.
    Dristereau - Axxolentus - Thundereau - Culmination - Nulo - Somniare

    Silvermoon
    - Shadowsong/Aszune - Tarren-Mill/Dentarg

  10. #90
    So many people that seem to not know the diffrence betwen Lore and story.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by MoFalcon View Post
    put up or shut up....if you cant, thats fine. Everyone in here crying just thinks its so damn easy. put up or shut up!
    No one in here bows to you. Nor is anyone in here your bitch. If you don't like what is being said in this post, then BYE FELICIA. Don't let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you.
    Last edited by Aggressive; 2022-05-30 at 05:00 AM.
    Be careful who you chat it up with here on these forums. If you are NOT for WoW and about WoW, people will report whatever you say and get you banned

  12. #92
    Stood in the Fire MoFalcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    you're not entitled to anyone's time or labor.

    if it upsets you so much that people are expressing their opinions the door is over there.
    Doesn't bother me at all... I rather enjoy watching a bunch of crybabies complain about a job someone else is doing. a job they all say they could do better, then offer no proof. no solutions and just more and more rants and whines.....keep'em coming....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    No one in here bows to you. Nor is anyone in here your bitch. If you don't like what is being said in this post, then BYE FELICIA. Don't let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you.
    nor should they. I'm sure anything produced would be rubbish at best anyway. I enjoy reading from all of the "experts" in lore in here. "expert" writers and coders. "experts" who claim they can do it better or at least know a better way to di it, without actually being helpful. keep it up.....

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Years ago, I balked at WoW focusing on evils that threatened the universe (and then reality itself) because the fans become numb to anything less. You can't easily just walk that back to small stuff. Dragonflight may be being placed in that situation. You really cannot go straight from Zovaal to some evil dragon or a local threat on Azeroth. The main timeline has to stay at universe-level threats. However, we really don't know the villain of the Dragonflight xpac.

    What I SPECIFICALLY said was that they HAD an opportunity to fix it correctly.

    They created a NEW timeline with WoW Classic. If instead of making BC classic (and REALLY DO NOT MAKE Wrath classic), they branched off 1.0 with xpacs telling smaller stories, THAT could work. The fans would be much more accepting of smaller threats specifically placed THERE because you could sell it as untold stories between the end of 1.0 and the start of 2.0. The problem is, once you create BC classic, you have shut the door on doing that. You could go back and make Classic+ today, but fans wont accept it as much because you are jumping back and forth in a second timeline which makes it confusing and jarring and not everyone will understand what is happening.

    I think they had ONE shot to fix the lore, and it was before BC Classic was released. Now they've blown past the window and both retail and classic are rapidly reaching world ending and universe ending threats.

    Further damage can be done with Dragonflight because Dragon Isles was an untold story that would fit nicely in a Classic+ xpac. But they are now permanently unveiling it in the retail timeline, so it cant be used in a Classic+ xpac, which can be the wrong place to do it if they do it incorrectly. So Dragonflight could break WoW even more.

    What Blizzard needs is a FULL reboot, back to 1.0, retell the story again but keep it local. Unfortunately, even that idea is now damaged because they have TWO timelines running. It would probably be best to end both other timelines and restart the lore with a modern game engine.
    Is there any more substance to your post than = Stuff is being added to retail instead of to some potential classic+ release and this is thus bad for the lore?

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No Shadowlands is DEFINITELY the worst the lore has ever been. There has been more egregious retcons for Shadowlands than there has been for any other expansion before it.
    I see you did not play TBC.

  15. #95
    Every character I cared about even remotely died then double died in shadow lands...

    The writing team can't hurt them anymore. The new dull 2 dimensional lifeless puppets I simply dont care about.

    Hell its become a comedy to me. I cant wait till the sylvanas story line continues. I'm sure she will kill a raid boss that would destroy azeroth as her boy toy ( who she found and she loves deeply) tell us we were always his favorite and that hes proud of us.

  16. #96
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I see you did not play TBC.
    I did and the lore was fine.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    I did and the lore was fine.
    It really wasn't though. Especially when your scale for quality is based on retcons, which TBC was entirely composed of.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Things are still fun for many people. What you are really saying is "fun for me". Fun is subjective and what you find fun others do not.
    Exactly, which is why the game is in the state it is now and was hemorrhaging players prior to the content drought and lawsuit.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Theangryone View Post
    Exactly, which is why the game is in the state it is now and was hemorrhaging players prior to the content drought and lawsuit.
    This is such a lazy argument. People leave for many reasons. Trying to claim you are right by saying they are all leaving because of your opinion is disingenuous. Correlation does not = causation.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    What Blizzard needs is a FULL reboot, back to 1.0, retell the story again but keep it local. Unfortunately, even that idea is now damaged because they have TWO timelines running. It would probably be best to end both other timelines and restart the lore with a modern game engine.
    As I posted elsewhere

    I myself am in complete agreement with those that say the lore is trash and I would heartily volunteer my time...6 figure salary, full benefits pkg..*cough* and rewrite the lore that would be coherent, consistent and clear. Of course if I was given the task of making the races fit into the classes, I can see some exceptions that might be more accurately said to be multi-classed.

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