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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudi View Post
    KZ was 1 week cd, not 3 days.
    Being armor capped@60 means nothing since BC is level 70 content
    Solo tanking Attumen and Moroes is no big deal even in pre-t4 gear.
    On the contrary, solo healing KZ in similar gear was mostly impossible.

    In other words, you never played BC and just pulled most of this straight out of your ass
    Karazhan WAS a 3-day cooldown in the beginning of TBC. Want my armory link to see my Champion of the Naaru and Amani War Bear achievements? Wanna see my nice Kil'Jaeden achievement BEFORE the release of Wrath? (Sure, we got him post-nerf, but still, it was before Wrath release, meaning we cleared SWP in TBC). Solo healing KZ was SUPER doable in Absolution gear as a priest. Yes, I miss-spoke, 36,000 armour is the armour cap for lvl 70 targets. I needed Priest Inspiration buff of +25% armour to hit the actual armour cap for boss targets which were 73, and that number was closer to 42k armour. (maybe 46k? It's been more than a decade)

    Solo-tanking Attumen and Moroes is no big deal in 2021, with strong machines and good internet connection. My Pentium 3 processor of 1.2 GHZ and my Voodoo Graphics Card with 128MB's of memory, coupled with my 126k ISDN connection and the fact I was a SEVENTEEN-YEAR OLD TEENAGER meant that solo-tanking KZ WAS a big deal back then. Just because people do it with their eyes closed in 2021 and 2022 doesn't mean it was easy in 2008. I have a Master of Science in Economics. Yet, in highscool, Advanced Calculus was hard. Now at age 30, and with a Master's degree, I can do high-school calculus with my eyes closed.

    Here's my Armory btw. Just so that I can shut you up.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...erhood/dalinos

    Kil'Jaeden achievement on the 10th of November 2008. WOTLK Release date, 13th of November 2008. Amani War Bear achievement retro-actively earned on the 15th of October 2008, the day WOTLK pre-patch was released and Achievements were added to the game.

    Get fucked, idiot.
    Last edited by Dalinos; 2022-06-01 at 03:08 PM.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    Karazhan WAS a 3-day cooldown in the beginning of TBC. Want my armory link to see my Champion of the Naaru and Amani War Bear achievements? Wanna see my nice Kil'Jaeden achievement BEFORE the release of Wrath? (Sure, we got him post-nerf, but still, it was before Wrath release, meaning we cleared SWP in TBC). Solo healing KZ was SUPER doable in Absolution gear as a priest. Yes, I miss-spoke, 36,000 armour is the armour cap for lvl 70 targets. I needed Priest Inspiration buff of +25% armour to hit the actual armour cap for boss targets which were 73, and that number was closer to 42k armour. (maybe 46k? It's been more than a decade)

    Solo-tanking Attumen and Moroes is no big deal in 2021, with strong machines and good internet connection. My Pentium 3 processor of 1.2 GHZ and my Voodoo Graphics Card with 128MB's of memory, coupled with my 126k ISDN connection and the fact I was a SEVENTEEN-YEAR OLD TEENAGER meant that solo-tanking KZ WAS a big deal back then. Just because people do it with their eyes closed in 2021 and 2022 doesn't mean it was easy in 2008. I have a Master of Science in Economics. Yet, in highscool, Advanced Calculus was hard. Now at age 30, and with a Master's degree, I can do high-school calculus with my eyes closed.

    Here's my Armory btw. Just so that I can shut you up.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...erhood/dalinos

    Kil'Jaeden achievement on the 10th of November 2008. WOTLK Release date, 13th of November 2008. Amani War Bear achievement retro-actively earned on the 15th of October 2008, the day WOTLK pre-patch was released and Achievements were added to the game.

    Get fucked, idiot.
    Karazhan was never a 3 day reset. Mmo champion even has some proof:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...han-Raid-Timer
    Why is Karazhan, the first level 70 10-man raid instance, STILL on a 7-day reset timer? I mean c'mon, Blizzard!

    According to WoW Jutsu, 99.99% of level 70 characters have seen, at least, the first trash mob group of Karazhan. With any somewhat experienced guild, you can finish Karazhan in only 3-4 hours, and with a PUG group you can finish it in about 5 hours! A raid instance that only takes one night of raiding, one small night of raiding, should NOT be on a 7-day reset timer.
    As for the armor cap is 35.8k for 73 targets and bit under 32k for level 70 targets.
    Last edited by luc54; 2022-06-01 at 05:15 PM.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Drosul View Post
    Even in the absence of RMT, GDKP would still be a terrible loot system because of the social impacts it has, transforming player interactions from social, mutually beneficial ones, into parasitical and transactional ones. That's also to say nothing of the inherent disparities in classes' ability to farm raw gold.

    The fact that gold is readily and easily purchasable with real world dollars only further completely and totally invalidates any attempts to justify GDKP as anything but a pay to win scheme perpetuated by players of decidedly low character, and even less worth.

    All of the P2W garbage should be purged. GDKPs are only one facet, paid boosts, paid carries, paid achievement carries (coming soon in wrath) and paid arena carries are all a damn abomination, and a blatant slap in the face to any players that actually earn any or all of those things in game.

    Wipe all gold and gear and achievements on the entire account on first offense

    Second offense do the same, but also delete all of their characters.

    Lifetime ban third offense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drosul View Post
    Every GDKP group falls all over itself finding ~5 whales brought in as "pure buyers" every run. Most of them spend more time chasing after those 5 whales than the rest of the players in the raid combined. It's blatantly predatory for the people who already have gear, and blatantly p2w for the people that don't. Keep being delusional though. Also, since you are clearly a gdkper based upon your ridiculous propaganda shilling on behalf of them, allow me to also /spit your way. You P2W types ruined retail, and have been steadily on a path to ruin classic.
    Your description of GDKPs can just as easily be applied to soft reserves, loot councils, guilds in general. I can take your posts and simply replace 'GDKP' with 'raids' and state that, as not enough gear drops for every player, and in one way or another, only certain players get gear, raids, and WoW generally transforms player interaction from mutually beneficial ones into parasitical and transactional ones.

    That aside, you can simply read the undisputed posts already made in this thread that note that GDKPs can be as social, if not more social, than the alternatives.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think reason for that anger is rather simple and as you admit you haven't played Classic not as obvious: GDKP's have basically become what boosting was in Retail until Blizzard effectively banned boosting communities.

    On larger servers, trade chat is full of it, it takes absolutely no genius to figure out where all this gold comes that pretty much fuel these runs (RMT), which causes massive inflation, making any regular gold farm barely worth it, as the botting that drives up the supply is an indirect result of the GDKP runs making gold buying very attractive.

    I'll be frank, i handfarmed a ton of gold in Classic myself by just doing DM:E jump runs, because the runs cannot be easily botted and the bots need to resort to outright hacks in order to compete with a player.
    In TBC, i barely farmed any gold myself (outside of some dailies, but those were largely done for the Rep), because outdoor farming isn't worth it.

    Can you avoid it? Sure, but efficiency is very much engrained into people and it's not a great feeling when one person walks out of a regular run with 0-1 Items, while another person swipes their card and walks out decked out of a GDKP.
    GDKP's aren't some fringe occurrence anymore, it's a huge pillar next old fashioned guilds and regular pugs.

    That's why some people are very negative towards GDKP, it promotes RMT on a massive scale.
    As someone who farms their own gold and geared several alts with GDKPs, I simply do not understand where your post is coming from and also refer to you the many posts already made in this thread that similarly detail what I say below.

    A majority of the items are not so insanely expensive that they are inaccessible to most players even simply doing dailies for gold. A majority of the items I bought were under 1k and the repeated references in this thread to 100k+ items are clearly not the standard. Gold buying absolutely exists, GDKPs definitely encourage it, and several items that are bought in GDKPs definitely are paid for with gold coming from gold sellers. However, if you actually frequent GDKPs, you'll see that a large number of items go for an amount that is easily acquired by players, and therefore creates no reason to believe that GDKPs are propped up by gold sellers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    Doing Pugs isn't putting in the effort? just because you're doing organised content that isn't within the context of a guild doesn't make you less of a player or less worthy of gear, maybe i'm old fashioned but back in the day when you were doing pugs you would simply roll on the item you needed (MS>OS) and while it wasn't perfect atleast gold wasn't a factor.
    If you go back to the context of that back and forth, you said without a guild or gold, you are not getting a DST or the like. You limited that to guilds or gold yourself. If you want to get a DST through a pug, you need to put in the effort to accomplish that with the pug, but I do not see in any way how Biomega was implying what you have now claimed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Dequanacus View Post
    A majority of the items are not so insanely expensive that they are inaccessible to most players even simply doing dailies for gold.
    .
    Because the majority of items are usually not very great, no one will bid crazy amounts for an item that drops quite often (tier tokens for example) or an Item that's not even BiS or barely contested.

    The big Items however, those go for amounts where the acquisition of said gold is dubious at best, when you take into account how much time it takes most people to farm that gold.

    You can certainly pass by in more easily in T4 / T5 raids without goldbuying, where items aren't as hotly contested anymore and breeze more easily because the content is nerfed as well, but in raids like SWP, people just wouldn't put up with like 5h+ raids if the cut at the end wasn't worth their time.
    And as said, a big cut is unfortunately very often due to multiple people buying gold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dequanacus View Post
    and therefore creates no reason to believe that GDKPs are propped up by gold sellers.
    They are, because without gold sellers, GDKP's wouldn't be nearly as lucrative, at which point a lot less people will organize them as without those goldbuyers, the pot massively declines.

    I've done my share of GDKP back in late Classic during Naxx, making 700-900g for like ~2-3h of raiding certainly was quite the thing early on, but that's when you had people casually dropping 20k on a Tier Token and Phylactery going for 30-40k.
    But then as time went on and you had ID's where just shit loot dropped and the cut ended up at something like 200g...yeah, i probably could've made more gold by just doing Jumpruns during that time, especially if you also account for the fact that you had to bring consumables regardless and shit which eat your cut.

    In order to GDKP's to be worth the time and effort as organizer, you basically need goldbuyers, at least in content where you cannot mindlessly carry a lot of people.
    In order to have a successful GDKP in SWP, you need halfway competent players that are actually able to carry other players, a person that just barely pulls their own weight won't cut it in SWP.

    How do you get those people more easily?
    By having huge cuts.
    How do you get huge cuts?
    By finding buyers who have a huge supply of gold.

    I'm hosting pug raids for SWP right and are clearing since the 2nd week (a.k.a. last week) and that has taken a lot of effort in terms looking up strats, checking people whether they're actually competent enough to clear SWP, make assignments and then basically babysit them for the entire raid.
    That's more than enough effort for me, i cannot imagine doing for a GDKP which is basically leading a pug on crack unless i get a massive cut for myself at the end, which naturally depends on the pot because when you get too greedy as organizer, those competent people will not come back.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Because the majority of items are usually not very great, no one will bid crazy amounts for an item that drops quite often (tier tokens for example) or an Item that's not even BiS or barely contested.

    The big Items however, those go for amounts where the acquisition of said gold is dubious at best, when you take into account how much time it takes most people to farm that gold.

    You can certainly pass by in more easily in T4 / T5 raids without goldbuying, where items aren't as hotly contested anymore and breeze more easily because the content is nerfed as well, but in raids like SWP, people just wouldn't put up with like 5h+ raids if the cut at the end wasn't worth their time.
    And as said, a big cut is unfortunately very often due to multiple people buying gold.

    They are, because without gold sellers, GDKP's wouldn't be nearly as lucrative, at which point a lot less people will organize them as without those goldbuyers, the pot massively declines.

    I've done my share of GDKP back in late Classic during Naxx, making 700-900g for like ~2-3h of raiding certainly was quite the thing early on, but that's when you had people casually dropping 20k on a Tier Token and Phylactery going for 30-40k.
    But then as time went on and you had ID's where just shit loot dropped and the cut ended up at something like 200g...yeah, i probably could've made more gold by just doing Jumpruns during that time, especially if you also account for the fact that you had to bring consumables regardless and shit which eat your cut.

    In order to GDKP's to be worth the time and effort as organizer, you basically need goldbuyers, at least in content where you cannot mindlessly carry a lot of people.
    In order to have a successful GDKP in SWP, you need halfway competent players that are actually able to carry other players, a person that just barely pulls their own weight won't cut it in SWP.

    How do you get those people more easily?
    By having huge cuts.
    How do you get huge cuts?
    By finding buyers who have a huge supply of gold.

    I'm hosting pug raids for SWP right and are clearing since the 2nd week (a.k.a. last week) and that has taken a lot of effort in terms looking up strats, checking people whether they're actually competent enough to clear SWP, make assignments and then basically babysit them for the entire raid.
    That's more than enough effort for me, i cannot imagine doing for a GDKP which is basically leading a pug on crack unless i get a massive cut for myself at the end, which naturally depends on the pot because when you get too greedy as organizer, those competent people will not come back.
    My general idea is that one can simply run a GDKP of the prior tier, get most of your BiS for dirt cheap, and at that point either join a guild or pug the current raid to get gear at the pace expected for rolling out or doing loot council, or at that point do current tier GDKPs, and snipe an item or two at the pace you would otherwise be acquiring gear using alternative methods.

    During BT/Hyjal, I geared several alts through t5 with most of the gear going for sub 1k. It definitely was not being carried by gold buyers, but was still enough for each raider to get a cut of above 1k, and as so many people were organizing them, clearly enough to warrant the work put into them.

    From my experience, I really do not see why GDKPs are an issue nor how gold buying is having any substantial impact on the game. If people drop 150k on glaives in a GDKP, what do I care? GDKPs remain lucrative without these people and they would continue to exist even if gold selling was completely removed since, despite inflation, people are still making GDKPs like the ones I described above where the items are going for believable amounts and the overall pot remains large from all the cumulative gear that drops.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Dequanacus View Post
    nor how gold buying is having any substantial impact on the game.
    Well, it's against the ToS for a reason.

    If you cannot figure out why, then that's a you problem.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    If you cannot figure out why, then that's a you problem.
    Are you really taking the path of
    A very real argument exists that's easy to make but I won't make it
    I would think with how much you've posted in this thread thus far, making this apparently obvious argument would be easy. Does it have anything to with all of the posts I and others have made in this thread already that neither you or anyone else have responded to and refuted?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Dequanacus View Post
    I would think with how much you've posted in this thread thus far, making this apparently obvious argument would be easy.
    Because it's that sort of redundant explanation that i'm frankly not going to make for you.

    Many games, not just WoW have similiar things in their ToS that forbid trading real money for ingame goods with a 3rd party.
    If you need an explanation for that basic, then maybe a bit of research on your part is required before participating in such a discussion.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-06-01 at 10:51 PM.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Because it's that sort of redundant explanation that i'm frankly not going to make for you.

    Many games, not just WoW have similiar things in their ToS that forbid trading real money for ingame goods with a 3rd party.
    If you need an explanation for that basic, then maybe a bit of research on your part is required before participating in such a discussion.
    As I explicitly stated in the portion of the post you conveniently did not quote, many arguments have been made in this thread that gold buying has little to no impact on your average player. Interestingly, despite you continuing to post in this thread and therefore likely having read those posts, you chose not to acknowledge and refute them despite now arrogantly claiming that they are obviously wrong.

    Really, it's strange that you claim with no support that your arguments exist whereas an entire thread that you are posting has several tangible, existing and already made arguments that already stand unrefuted. I'd almost think you were joking because the joke writes itself.
    Last edited by Dequanacus; 2022-06-02 at 12:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    So ALL gold in WoW is bought with real money? There is NO middle layer. There is a lot of gold in-game that was not bought with money which is also one of the primary points of GDKP where if you don't get the item you want you are GETTING MORE GOLD FOR NEXT TIME. You're buying GEAR... WITH GOLD...
    What weird argument is that? So because all gold in wow is not bought, that means no gold is bought and used only for gdkp runs and acquiring gear with real money?
    How does that logic even work in your brain? Honest to god question because I feel you're so far off everyone else regardless of argument or point of view.
    If I make an account, buy gold for real money and use that gold to get full priority for any gear I want in gdkp run. Is that not P2W? And if you dont think it is, what would you call it?

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    What weird argument is that? So because all gold in wow is not bought, that means no gold is bought and used only for gdkp runs and acquiring gear with real money?
    How does that logic even work in your brain? Honest to god question because I feel you're so far off everyone else regardless of argument or point of view.
    If I make an account, buy gold for real money and use that gold to get full priority for any gear I want in gdkp run. Is that not P2W? And if you dont think it is, what would you call it?
    As someone else stated and I'll quote them because I don't want to rile this convo up anymore than I did previously...

    What is there to win?

  12. #232
    GDKP is actually a system that somewhat counters the hyper inflation the game has.
    sure, as a newbie player without a lot of gold to your name getting into the system is a bit of a hurdle.
    and there's plenty of scummy hosts that take a 60/40 split of the top despite not pulling their weight whatsoever.
    but once you get into the cycle you'll always walk away with something at the end of it.
    and that something is useable the next time you jump into a raid group.

    now, this doesn't counter the gold seller issue, but to be fair that is an issue that needs to be addressed on it's own, as it is to big to just ignore.

    but having blizzard try and forcibly step in for a system that consists of nothing but an agreement between players...

    no... just no...

  13. #233
    You can just pvp and get gear then join a guild. Roll a healer and it will be hard to not find a guild.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    Karazhan WAS a 3-day cooldown in the beginning of TBC. Want my armory link to see my Champion of the Naaru and Amani War Bear achievements? Wanna see my nice Kil'Jaeden achievement BEFORE the release of Wrath? (Sure, we got him post-nerf, but still, it was before Wrath release, meaning we cleared SWP in TBC). Solo healing KZ was SUPER doable in Absolution gear as a priest. Yes, I miss-spoke, 36,000 armour is the armour cap for lvl 70 targets. I needed Priest Inspiration buff of +25% armour to hit the actual armour cap for boss targets which were 73, and that number was closer to 42k armour. (maybe 46k? It's been more than a decade)

    Solo-tanking Attumen and Moroes is no big deal in 2021, with strong machines and good internet connection. My Pentium 3 processor of 1.2 GHZ and my Voodoo Graphics Card with 128MB's of memory, coupled with my 126k ISDN connection and the fact I was a SEVENTEEN-YEAR OLD TEENAGER meant that solo-tanking KZ WAS a big deal back then. Just because people do it with their eyes closed in 2021 and 2022 doesn't mean it was easy in 2008. I have a Master of Science in Economics. Yet, in highscool, Advanced Calculus was hard. Now at age 30, and with a Master's degree, I can do high-school calculus with my eyes closed.

    Here's my Armory btw. Just so that I can shut you up.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...erhood/dalinos

    Kil'Jaeden achievement on the 10th of November 2008. WOTLK Release date, 13th of November 2008. Amani War Bear achievement retro-actively earned on the 15th of October 2008, the day WOTLK pre-patch was released and Achievements were added to the game.

    Get fucked, idiot.
    Lmfao this boomer has dementia, can't even remember things now.
    3day karazhan lockout, LOL!

  15. #235
    At least some hints are in the air about the issue that needs addressing infinite times more than GDKP runs; bots. I'd almost dare to say their negative impact on the average gamer surpasses those of any GDKP runs combined, but since this is purely anecdotal at best, maybe I should not say that.

    Hypothetical situation for whoever is very adamant about GDKP being the issue: You are in charge of the anti-GDKP enforcing division after Blizzard has responded to the constructive criticism on this forum, and have decided to take action - banning GDKP runs. Now the real quest begins, what the hell are you going to do about it in practise? Ban trade channel spammers, good. Now the runs are arranged in discords or whatever sites. Do you send your scouts there? Sure, that'll serve them a lesson, hiring resources for such is obviously a trivial question! Or if someone from the forum sends a screenshot, legitimate or not, that WarriorBob from realm X is arranging a run, that's right, ban right on the spot. Also, where's the line? You pay player X in your group not to roll on item? Ban? You pay player(s) to fill in your desperate raid? Ban? "But of course the ban would only be about OBVIOUS cases," right? You see the pipe dream here?

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    As someone else stated and I'll quote them because I don't want to rile this convo up anymore than I did previously...

    What is there to win?
    What? The gear!!??!!?!???
    You're just being disengous on purpose... You know you're wrong, you're just a little kid who cant admit it... Cool we could sort that out...
    Last edited by tomten; 2022-06-02 at 08:38 AM.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Dequanacus View Post
    many arguments have been made in this thread that gold buying has little to no impact on your average player.
    Inflation doesn't affect the average player?
    People walking into Arena with far superior gear doesn't affect the average player?
    People driving up the prices in GDKP itself doesn't affect the average player?

    Simply because people make an argument, doesn't make it true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dequanacus View Post
    Really, it's strange that you claim with no support that your arguments exist whereas an entire thread that you are posting has several tangible, existing and already made arguments that already stand unrefuted. I'd almost think you were joking because the joke writes itself.
    Again, ask yourself this: Then Why is it against the ToS?
    Why do other games also have similiar clauses in their ToS?

    Quote Originally Posted by ifrah View Post
    At least some hints are in the air about the issue that needs addressing infinite times more than GDKP runs; bots. I'd almost dare to say their negative impact on the average gamer surpasses those of any GDKP runs combined, but since this is purely anecdotal at best, maybe I should not say that.
    I mean, go ahead, find the solution that massively reduces the amount of bots running around.
    Especially one that doesn't cost Blizzard more money.

    Nevermind that services that promote RMT also promote botting, because botting becomes more profitable.
    Quote Originally Posted by ifrah View Post
    Now the real quest begins, what the hell are you going to do about it in practise? Ban trade channel spammers, good. Now the runs are arranged in discords or whatever sites.
    The crux is that people who right now host and join these runs never break the ToS in any form, they profit from other people who buy gold yet are not accountable in any shape or form despite the fact that it's very obvious who buys gold in these.

    The second Blizzard announces "Organizing GDKP's is against the ToS", you'd see a massive decline of people organizing these runs because they obviously don't want to lose their account.

    Suddenly, even if someone purchased gold and is intent on buying items, they have to find a GDKP run in the first place, which has become more difficult.
    It's similiar to a pawnshop refusing to buy certain items if they have the feeling said item has actually been robbed from another person, because they fear the police will show up the next day, confiscate the item and then the pawnshop owner is SOL.

    Furthermore, it makes the entire thing far easier to track, right now you basically have massive transactions happening that at face value are completely fine, where then an employee has to find evidence that someone bought gold and then ban them.
    Meanwhile, in a world where GDKP's are against the ToS, you can look at logs, see that a massive sums has been handed out, check chat logs whether any items have been rolled out or rather been funneled into some people by odd circumstance...yeah, there's probably something fishy going on.

    Nevermind that the traffic of large sums being traded on this front will go down massively because as said: Less GDKP's will happen the second they're against the ToS.

    Furthermore, the moment you can also hold the organizer responsible, you can also remove them from the scene because the organizers usually hold huge amounts of gold.
    Thus you can remove far more illegally acquired gold from the economy, whereas right now the gold is basically legal the second it's being traded to the organizer, because Blizzard doesn't take gold away from anyone but the buyer.

    Reducing the accessability of GDKP's will reduce the amount of RMT because people cannot just join trade chat to get one and further have to rely on people that themselves are already breaking the ToS, which naturally can put them onto the radar of Blizzard as well if they ever traded larger sums of gold with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by ifrah View Post
    You see the pipe dream here?
    I think suggesting to "ban more bots" and then talking about a pipe dream has a certain irony to it.
    The truth is simply that you can't kill something by going after the supplier, you have to reduce the demand for it, by making GDKP's far less accessible than they are right now, the demand to buy gold will decline.

    This isn't about "ending RMT", this is about reducing it, you don't reduce RMT by banning bots, you just make it more lucrative.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-06-02 at 04:36 PM.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Inflation doesn't affect the average player?
    People walking into Arena with far superior gear doesn't affect the average player?
    People driving up the prices in GDKP itself doesn't affect the average player?

    Simply because people make an argument, doesn't make it true.

    Again, ask yourself this: Then Why is it against the ToS?
    Why do other games also have similiar clauses in their ToS?
    You're free to quote, breakdown and refute the posts made in this thread to this point if they are clearly wrong. Otherwise, I'm not sure what to tell you. Do you want me to quote several pages of posts that were conveniently ignored?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    What? The gear!!??!!?!???
    You're just being disengous on purpose... You know you're wrong, you're just a little kid who cant admit it... Cool we could sort that out...
    This is the conversation that has been going on for 10+ years now... but sure insult me if it makes you feel better.

    As for your "The gear!!!?!?!?!?" part... and then what? You can get the gear either way... in GDKP or waiting to get it eventually. So what are you winning during the time frame of a raid being up before the next one comes and makes all of your gear obsolete?

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Dequanacus View Post
    You're free to quote, breakdown and refute the posts made in this thread to this point if they are clearly wrong.
    Considering you seem to put no effort into finding out why buying gold from 3rd parties is against the ToS, i see no reason why should now dig through this entire thread and debate with every person that for some reason believes that gold buying gold is somehow fine and doesn't affect the game in a negative way.

    When rules exists, i think there's a certain expectation to first educate on why these rules exists before assuming that they're actually pointless.

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